The tragedy of religious conservatism

[rtwngAvngr]

That was a totally disreputable remark. Show me so much as one single comment directed at Bully that was even disrespectful much less intolerant.

Why is it that you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with atheist views is intolerant? Can you perhaps adjust your thinking to accept the fact that we do tolerate atheist and secularist views, we simply disagree with them?

Or is disagreement not allowed? Are Christians simply to remain silent in the face of what you perceive to be the greater wisdom? You may construe my disagreement as intolerance if you choose. Not only are you completely mistaken, but you're not going to shut me up either. :

Merlin. I meant bully has no religious tolerance, For any religion. I would never want to shut you up. I love christians. This is a misunderstanding.

 

[5stringJeff]

Oh come on, D - you know better. Yes, I believe that Christianity is the way to salvation. That is my PERSONAL belief. I do not seek to force it on you. Do I believe you are wrong if you do not believe in Christ? Yes. So what? How does that offend you or how does that infringe on your freedoms?

This country has a tolerance for all religious beliefs - including those who believe all religions to be wrong. Simply because Christians believe that they follow the true teachings of Christ does not make us inclined to take over the world, nor does it make us intolerant of those who choose not to believe as we do.

So why does it make you so nervous that you feel obliged to paint Christians as close-minded bigots whose aim is to force all other religions into obscurity?

Merlin, there is a huge difference between the political freedom of religion that we have in America, in which someone is free to believe whatever they want, and the obligation that most Christians feel (or should feel) about sharing their faith with others and convincing them about the truths of Christianity. Of course, you are free to believe what you want, as am I. But if my beliefs compel me to share my beliefs with you, how is that somehow 'intolerant' or 'offensive?' If I believe Christianity is the only correct religion, why shouldn't I let others know - in a loving, yet truthful way - what my beliefs are?

 

[Merlin1047]

Merlin. I meant bully has no religious tolerance, For any religion. I would never want to shut you up. I love christians. This is a misunderstanding.

Oopsie. Sooorrryyy.

Well, I guess I'll shut the hell up now.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Oopsie. Sooorrryyy.

Well, I guess I'll shut the hell up now.

Please don't!

 

[UsaPride]

Are Christians simply to remain silent in the face of what you perceive to be the greater wisdom?

This is not directed at anyone inparticular, I've just noticed a pattern with this statement.
Atheists can say what they want about Religion, can make the biggest stinks about anything relating to Religion, and Christians have to suck it up and not say a word or else they're labled with "intolerant" or "bigots" or shoot, what were some of those other words.
Same goes for Liberals, not all but alot. Far left (?) liberals can say what the hell they want about Republicans, make up what they want, spin what they want, as soon as a Republican says something to either defend themselves or make remarks about liberals, we're "intolerant" or "bigots" or what ever the hell else we're labled.
Why are Christians and Republicans always having to shut up or they're evil?
I'm tired, leave me alone, LOL! :halo:

 

[Merlin1047]

Merlin, there is a huge difference between the political freedom of religion that we have in America, in which someone is free to believe whatever they want, and the obligation that most Christians feel (or should feel) about sharing their faith with others and convincing them about the truths of Christianity. Of course, you are free to believe what you want, as am I. But if my beliefs compel me to share my beliefs with you, how is that somehow 'intolerant' or 'offensive?' If I believe Christianity is the only correct religion, why shouldn't I let others know - in a loving, yet truthful way - what my beliefs are?

Apparently we have an epidemic of misunderstanding going here. I just missed the point of Rtwng's post and apparently you have missed mine. I don't believe that I ever suggested that I have a problem with sharing your faith with someone. At least until that someone tells you that he/she is not interested. Then if you continue to hang on like a bulldog gnawing on an ankle, you are wrong. Christ taught that Christians should share their faith and I'm not sure how I gave you the impression that I believed this was inappropriate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Oy!

 

[5stringJeff]

Apparently we have an epidemic of misunderstanding going here. I just missed the point of Rtwng's post and apparently you have missed mine. I don't believe that I ever suggested that I have a problem with sharing your faith with someone. At least until that someone tells you that he/she is not interested. Then if you continue to hang on like a bulldog gnawing on an ankle, you are wrong. Christ taught that Christians should share their faith and I'm not sure how I gave you the impression that I believed this was inappropriate.

Sorry... I am all screwed up!

 

[Merlin1047]

LOL - well, it's been interesting and fun regardless of the couple of missteps along the way.

I'm beginning to suspect that Bully threw this out simply to stir some shit and get folks to wear out their keyboards.

 

[dmp]

Sorry... I am all screwed up!

You suckin back on gramma's old cough medicine whilst budgeting?


How bout dem TEXANS baby!

 

[Avatar4321]

He's right. Organized religion forces you to think your right. And in order to be right, everyone else must be wrong, for if not, you are wrong, and if you are wrong, why follow that religion? "In the name of God" is the greatest killer and the easiest. It is to easy to hate those who are supposed to be of lesser value to you. This is not just christianity but all religions. Religion is not bad, unfortunatley organized religion is run by Man, and Man is greedy, corruptable and as inheritantly evil as they are good.

Problem with this is there are people who are right and people who are wrong. Ex. Someone may say that grass is purple. Thats going to be wrong. People can say 2+2=5. thats wrong. The fact is some people are right about some things and some people are wrong about some things. Religion doesnt change that.

Second, the Greateast killer in the history of the world is Communism. Communists have been responsible for more deaths in the last 100 years then in all the religious wars combined.

Besides, why is it that you guys cant tell the difference between someone to be claiming to do something in the name of God and people using religion to justify their evil? To say organized religion is somehow responsible for the actions of evil men who act contrary to their religious tenents is absurd.

With that said I think you had it right to a certain point

Organized religion forces you to think

 

[Avatar4321]

This worries me a little bit. By Christ's very message, his followers HAVE To believe what he says. Christ was pretty clear about being 'the' way. To allow that there may be 'other' ways for people of this world to find God means Christ wasn't exactly accurate. That's scary stuff.

It bothers me as well. Christ was clear in his message to the people that they can know for themselves. When Christ asked his disciples who men say he was, they gave the typical answers they heard on the street and when Christ asked who the disciples say he is, Peter Declared "Thou art the Christ Son of the living God" And Christ replied (paraphrase) "Blessed art thou Peter, for Flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in Heaven"(Matthew 16)

So its clear from the scriptures that men and women can know if its revealed from the Father. Christ gave many keys to finding out for ourselves "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be given unto you" (Matthew 5)

Christ also told us that we can know whether the Doctrine is from God by doing (John 7 i believe, hate doing this from memory)

People like Bully and others like him try to claim that we cannot know. They do this because they dont know and arrogantly believe that because they dont know something nobody does. But they dont put the effort in to learn. They dont seek, therefore they do not find, they do not ask and therefore do not received. etc.

 

[Avatar4321]

This is not directed at anyone inparticular, I've just noticed a pattern with this statement.
Atheists can say what they want about Religion, can make the biggest stinks about anything relating to Religion, and Christians have to suck it up and not say a word or else they're labled with "intolerant" or "bigots" or shoot, what were some of those other words.
Same goes for Liberals, not all but alot. Far left (?) liberals can say what the hell they want about Republicans, make up what they want, spin what they want, as soon as a Republican says something to either defend themselves or make remarks about liberals, we're "intolerant" or "bigots" or what ever the hell else we're labled.
Why are Christians and Republicans always having to shut up or they're evil?
I'm tired, leave me alone, LOL! :halo:

We have to shut up because the only ways lies have a chance is by trying to silence the truth.

 

[Avatar4321]

LOL - well, it's been interesting and fun regardless of the couple of missteps along the way.

I'm beginning to suspect that Bully threw this out simply to stir some shit and get folks to wear out their keyboards.

Probably but thats the fun in these message boards. we get to debate and discuss ideas.

 

[dmp]

It bothers me as well. Christ was clear in his message to the people that they can know for themselves. When Christ asked his disciples who men say he was, they gave the typical answers they heard on the street and when Christ asked who the disciples say he is, Peter Declared "Thou art the Christ Son of the living God" And Christ replied (paraphrase) "Blessed art thou Peter, for Flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in Heaven"(Matthew 16)

So its clear from the scriptures that men and women can know if its revealed from the Father. Christ gave many keys to finding out for ourselves "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be given unto you" (Matthew 5)

Christ also told us that we can know whether the Doctrine is from God by doing (John 7 i believe, hate doing this from memory)

People like Bully and others like him try to claim that we cannot know. They do this because they dont know and arrogantly believe that because they dont know something nobody does. But they dont put the effort in to learn. They dont seek, therefore they do not find, they do not ask and therefore do not received. etc.

You have really keyed in on something here - something i've understood, but never could articulate.

People who don't know God are people who 'chose' not to. They are people who haven't sincerely prayed and talked and read. They may be people who have taken 'religion' courses in college - and perhaps understand 'what' 'christianity' is about, but they have NO idea what it's like to know a live and loving Christ.

I hope it's not prophecy; but one day, as they are falling from the sky, or holding their young, ill child, or watching everything 'good' in their life slip away for one reason or another - it's a time that that where they will cry out "My God - where are you??!!"



:-/

 

[Avatar4321]

You have really keyed in on something here - something i've understood, but never could articulate.

People who don't know God are people who 'chose' not to. They are people who haven't sincerely prayed and talked and read. They may be people who have taken 'religion' courses in college - and perhaps understand 'what' 'christianity' is about, but they have NO idea what it's like to know a live and loving Christ.

I hope it's not prophecy; but one day, as they are falling from the sky, or holding their young, ill child, or watching everything 'good' in their life slip away for one reason or another - it's a time that that where they will cry out "My God - where are you??!!"



:-/

I dont know if id agree with everything. There are some people who are honestly ignorant about God, who if being taught would accept the Gospel. But ive found the most antagonistic are those who arent ignorant but that do not put in the effort.

 

[dmp]

I dont know if id agree with everything. There are some people who are honestly ignorant about God, who if being taught would accept the Gospel. But ive found the most antagonistic are those who arent ignorant but that do not put in the effort.

I'm not writing of those how just don't know - I'm writing about those who 'refuse' to know.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm not writing of those how just don't know - I'm writing about those who 'refuse' to know.

Figured you were i was just clarifying

 

[dmp]

Figured you were i was just clarifying

I figured you figured I was figuring you ..uh...wha?

 

[MrMarbles]

First, define "organized religion." Does that include everything except for someone's own interpretation of God/nature/spirituality?

Second, why the aversion to right and wrong? Does it not make sense that there is a certain way that the supernatural, or the after life, functions?

Third, not all religions teach hate. In fact, Christianity specifically teaches us to love our enemies.

1) It is a hard thing to define. In an easy lamin way, organized religion is a religious group with an heirarchy. One that encompasses many people under one set of defined rules.

2) Yes, the supernatural probably works in some amazing way. But Man is both evil and good, and has the copacity for both.

3) Religion usually dosen't teach hate at all. But the people in charge can. In organized religion people are given absolute power, and that corrupts.