The single biggest thing that Bush's wars accomplished

[wihosa]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

 

[California Girl]

You're still buying the spin then? Since you believe that, you'll excuse those of us who don't take your 'guess' very seriously.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

You really don't understand what Iraq was all about, do you? I don't think you do.

 

[wihosa]

What spin?

That 4400 of America's best were wasted? That tens of thousands more were wounded, many maimed for life? That at least 100,000 Iraqis lost their lives? That millions of Iraqis were displaced? That Iran has now become the regional power? That millions of people around the globe have a lesser view of America? That Bush's wars cost the American treasury a trillion dollars? That the Iraqi "democracy" is fragile at best?

Those are facts, not spin.

What's your best "guess"?

 

[wihosa]

Well Mr. Christian

If you think I don't understand, why don't you enlighten me?

 

[California Girl]

What spin?

That 4400 of America's best were wasted? That tens of thousands more were wounded, many maimed for life? That at least 100,000 Iraqis lost their lives? That millions of Iraqis were displaced? That Iran has now become the regional power? That millions of people around the globe have a lesser view of America? That Bush's wars cost the American treasury a trillion dollars? That the Iraqi "democracy" is fragile at best?

Those are facts, not spin.

What's your best "guess"?

No, 4,400 of America's best were not wasted. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Stop using our war dead for your fucking partisan politics.

 

[wihosa]

Cali Girl,
Naturally you have to try and hide behind your suppossed "support for the troops". And of course you have to hurl invectives because it is you that has been spun.

 

[Mr Natural]

We saved the Bushs' business partners the Saudis from having to commit too much of their own resources to their own defense.

 

[DiamondDave]

For the umpteen BILLIONTH time...

Goals in Iraq
Disarming Saddam Hussein
Strike a major blow in the war on terror
Establish democracy in Iraq, keep Iraq whole and help transform the region
Intimidate other rogue nations and curb proliferation
Preserve and expand U.S. influence in the region, enhance Israel's security and facilitate resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict

All of which we have had success in, except for the end part of the last one about resolving Israeli Arab relations, which is probably never going to happen anyway.... could some things have been done better? Yep... does not take away from the fact that we have victory and had success

 

[rightwinger]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

What we accomplished is we opened up civil strife in Iraq, managed to kill 100,000 Iraqis, destroyed their infrastructure and economy and created a power vacuum that will allow Iran to seize more power in the region

 

[DiamondDave]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

What we accomplished is we opened up civil strife in Iraq, managed to kill 100,000 Iraqis, destroyed their infrastructure and economy and created a power vacuum that will allow Iran to seize more power in the region

Yeah... keeping civil strife under control with a murderous dictator was so great for the Iraqis... please state your official source for civilian Iraqi deaths directly attributed to our soldiers... infrastructure does get damaged in war, idiot. But it is improving just as imports, exports, and most business factors in Iraq are growing to levels they have never had, and your 'power vacuum' is leftist myth... but typical for you, wrongwinger

 

[Jarhead]

Hmmm...

I wonder how Mr. Obama will react when intel from the US and many other countries around the world gives reason to believe that Iran is an imminent threat and action must be taken.

Seems people want to ignore that part of the formula as it pertained to Iraq.

Oh yeah, I forgot. The rest of the world allowed Bush to cherry pick information from their intel so he can have his own personal fun.

 

[johnrocks]

I think "I Wreck" was one of the biggest mistakes in this Country's history and the main reason why the GOP was tossed on it's ass. It cost us blood and treasure that is forever gone and we'll have to remain or it WILL become a vacuum for terrorists and/or an ally of Iran,imho.

 

[Jarhead]

I think "I Wreck" was one of the biggest mistakes in this Country's history and the main reason why the GOP was tossed on it's ass. It cost us blood and treasure that is forever gone and we'll have to remain or it WILL become a vacuum for terrorists and/or an ally of Iran,imho.

Yes, the GOP was tossed on its ass.....but not becuase of the action that 28 democratic senators approved of based on the intel.

It was tossed on its ass becuase many of those senators, including Kerry and Clinton politicized it for political expediency.

But why get into such minor details.

 

[johnrocks]

I think "I Wreck" was one of the biggest mistakes in this Country's history and the main reason why the GOP was tossed on it's ass. It cost us blood and treasure that is forever gone and we'll have to remain or it WILL become a vacuum for terrorists and/or an ally of Iran,imho.

Yes, the GOP was tossed on its ass.....but not becuase of the action that 28 democratic senators approved of based on the intel.

It was tossed on its ass becuase many of those senators, including Kerry and Clinton politicized it for political expediency.

But why get into such minor details.

I became a Republican on my 18th Birthday in 1979 and voted "R" in every Federal election until 08 and it was this very reason, foreign policy, I can't be that unique and as far as Democrats go, they love intervention and yeah, they used it for political expediency, I had to go third party, I refuse to choose between big government A or big government B.

 

[Jarhead]

I think "I Wreck" was one of the biggest mistakes in this Country's history and the main reason why the GOP was tossed on it's ass. It cost us blood and treasure that is forever gone and we'll have to remain or it WILL become a vacuum for terrorists and/or an ally of Iran,imho.

Yes, the GOP was tossed on its ass.....but not becuase of the action that 28 democratic senators approved of based on the intel.

It was tossed on its ass becuase many of those senators, including Kerry and Clinton politicized it for political expediency.

But why get into such minor details.

I became a Republican on my 18th Birthday in 1979 and voted "R" in every Federal election until 08 and it was this very reason, foreign policy, I can't be that unique and as far as Democrats go, they love intervention and yeah, they used it for political expediency, I had to go third party, I refuse to choose between big government A or big government B.

Thus why I am pushing for a complete housecleaning.
I am sick of our choices being the lesser of the two evils.

 

[8537]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

What we accomplished is we opened up civil strife in Iraq, managed to kill 100,000 Iraqis, destroyed their infrastructure and economy and created a power vacuum that will allow Iran to seize more power in the region

It took a decade and I most certainly don't think it was worth the cost, but Iraq's economy is now better than it was before we invaded and they have at least some distant hope of a civil, democratically elected system of governance. Oil production and revenues have increased, power supply is better in most regions etc...They also have more access to technology than in 2002, but that's more related to natural progress than anything.

That doesn't mean it was a worthwhile effort. It just means that a decade later they've managed some tentative progress.

 

[Jarhead]

Now that our combat forces are finally out of Iraq, the RepubliCONs want to claim victory. But what have we won? A democracy? Hardly, there was an election in the spring and it has not yet been resolved. It may never be resolved. The rest of our force is scheduled to leave by this time next year.

After we leave we will then find out what kind of country Iraq will be. My guess is that another strongman, another Saddam Hussein will take over. Perhaps another civil war first.

So then what have we accomplished? I mean beyond the trillion dollars spent, the over 4400 dead and tens of thousands of wounded American service people, the over 100,000 killed Iraqis, the millions of displaced Iraqis, the streangthening of Iran into the regional power, the shreading of the American image as "the good duys", what have we accomplished?

What we have demonstrated to the world is the strategic limit of the power of the United States. Dictators the world over now have a model to gauge their actions against. The blow back from this folly will be with us far into the future.

What we accomplished is we opened up civil strife in Iraq, managed to kill 100,000 Iraqis, destroyed their infrastructure and economy and created a power vacuum that will allow Iran to seize more power in the region

It took a decade and I most certainly don't think it was worth the cost, but Iraq's economy is now better than it was before we invaded and they have at least some distant hope of a civil, democratically elected system of governance. Oil production and revenues have increased, power supply is better in most regions etc...They also have more access to technology than in 2002, but that's more related to natural progress than anything.

That doesn't mean it was a worthwhile effort. It just means that a decade later they've managed some tentative progress.

Hussein gassed his own people....suggesting a test of WMD's.
Hussein gave the run around to UN inspectors...suggesting he had something to hide
Not just US...but world INTEL suggested WMD's were likely

What if we did nothing and all of this were true?

Sometimes it is best to be pro-active when evidence suggests a threat than to doubt the evidence and be forced to be re-active when it is too late.

 

[8537]

[
Hussein gassed his own people....suggesting a test of WMD's.

That was well over a decade before the invasion. At the time, our response was to send Rumsfeld over to shake his hand and request he please consider stopping the practice.

Hussein gave the run around to UN inspectors...suggesting he had something to hide
Not just US...but world INTEL suggested WMD's were likely

What if we did nothing and all of this were true?

The UN inspectors were there shortly before we invaded and left b/c of our attack. Did they get a runaround? Sure. Did they also get cooperation? of course.

And if we did nothing, there's a chance he would have once again used weapons on his own people (though he hadn't done so in a decade). We knew he had no mobile weapons labs despite Powell's claims to the contrary. We knew he had no drones to launch attacks, despite Powell's claims to the contrary. And we knew that the aluminum tubes claimed to be for enriching uranium were for no such purpose.

 

[Jarhead]

[
Hussein gassed his own people....suggesting a test of WMD's.

That was well over a decade before the invasion. At the time, our response was to send Rumsfeld over to shake his hand and request he please consider stopping the practice.

Hussein gave the run around to UN inspectors...suggesting he had something to hide
Not just US...but world INTEL suggested WMD's were likely

What if we did nothing and all of this were true?

The UN inspectors were there shortly before we invaded and left b/c of our attack. Did they get a runaround? Sure. Did they also get cooperation? of course.

And if we did nothing, there's a chance he would have once again used weapons on his own people (though he hadn't done so in a decade). We knew he had no mobile weapons labs despite Powell's claims to the contrary. We knew he had no drones to launch attacks, despite Powell's claims to the contrary. And we knew that the aluminum tubes claimed to be for enriching uranium were for no such purpose.

Husseon signed a treaty with provisions. One of them was easy access for the UN inspectors.
He broke the treaty. He acted suspiciously...and after the first attack on the homeland since Pearl Harbor, our Goivernment, boithe republicans and democrats alike, were not willing to take the chance.

Despite it NOT being a popular move, our government did what they believed they needed to do.

I wonder what this thread would be about if, in fact, we did NOT do what we did, and instead, he gassed israel.

We would be debating with the left saying that Bush dropped the ball becuase he was a whimp and the right saying he did not feel war was necessary and di not see the threat as serious.

Sort of just saying.....