The Shame of the Media

[PoliticalChic]

1. On this very day, March 31, 1931 Walter Duranty reported in the NYTimes “there is no famine (in the Ukraine),” while 7 –10 million were starved to death.
In his New York Times articles (including one published on March 31, 1933), Duranty repeatedly denied the existence of a Ukrainian famine in 1932–33. In an August 24, 1933 article in NYT, he claimed "any report of a famine is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda." Duranty won a Pulitzer Prize in 1932.

And, the reporting of this dupe of Joseph Stalin reverberated in the West, where thousands of liberal-progressives bought it like it was on sale, and supported the 'worker's paradise.'

2. Of course, this is but one of the many times the MSM, particularly the NYTimes influenced widespread support of Left-Wing interests.
There was the time the NYTimes’ Harrison Salisbury traveled to North Vietnam in 1966-67, and reported that the US was deliberately targeting the civilian population. But Guenter Lewy, in “America in Vietnam,” revealed that “Only after the articles had appeared did a small number of persons learn that Salisbury, in effect, had given the authority of his byline to unverified Communist propaganda and the New York Times printed it as though Salisbury had established it himself with his own on-the-scene reporting…borrowed extensively from a North Vietnamese propaganda pamphlet, “Report on US War Crimes in Nam-Dinh City…” Lewy,"America in Vietnam," p. 400-401

3. And when warned of the bloodbath that Communist victory in Cambodia would bring, here is the type of MSM reporting that sways so many:
NYTimes Anthony Lewis: “Some will find the whole bloodbath debate unreal. What future possibility could be more terrible than the reality of what is happening in Cambodia now?” Anthony Lewis in the New York Times, March 17, 1975.

What future possibility?
Here is what happened:
Starting in April ’75, the Communist Khmer Rouge defeated Lon Nol in Cambodia. Democrats, starting with the 1974 budget, refused to allocate another penny, and forbade US military action “in or over” Indochina. Just as the right had warned, the communists began a systematic war on the entire populations of their nation, so savage, it is hard to comprehend. It is estimated that the number of dead numbered between 1.7 to 2.5 million out of a population of around 8 million. The Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Too bad there was no Fox News or right-wing talk radio, eh?

 

[WillowTree]

I rely on Fox News. It's the only brand that doesn't have a liberal agenda to it. I especially enjoy The O'Reilly Factor.

I also like to compare Fox to their non competition.. and I read both left and right news sources.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I rely on Fox News. It's the only brand that doesn't have a liberal agenda to it. I especially enjoy The O'Reilly Factor.

I also like to compare Fox to their non competition.. and I read both left and right news sources.

Don't you find it jaw-dropping that the Left has total disregard for the lives, much less liberty, of folks, yet feels no necessity to apologize or retract, or even explain, when their advice and/or 'expertise' results in millions of deaths?

 

[Oddball]

You're presuming that shame is within their repertoire of emotions.

I've not seen much, if any, evidence to support this assertion.

 

[noose4]

Yes what we needed was military action against the Soviet Union during the height of the depression and to have stayed in Vietnam longer than we already had.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes what we needed was military action against the Soviet Union during the height of the depression and to have stayed in Vietnam longer than we already had.

Noosie.....please tell me that you are five years old or younger!!!!

I had to read your post three times over, blinking furiously the entire time!

1. Did you notice that the thread was in 'Media'?

I meant it as an indictment of the MSM, and of the soft-brained and easily-led progressive- left in the United States.
Would I be correct in assuming that you would be included in that group?

2. I see you are an inhabitant of my city....did you know we have libraries? Places that loan books for free? You would be well served to avail yourself of same.

3. "...military action against the Soviet Union..."
The point of the OP, and perhaps I should have written more fully, is that the Commintern, the Communist International, had plans, revealed in the Soviet archives, to manipulate the American citizenry, and thereby make it easier for communist world domination.

The MSM has regularly assisted in this endeavor, either through stupidity, or with approval of those aims.
As it happens with metronomic regularity, it is therefore, difficult to excuse it as ignorance or accident.

4. Further, your post evinces such a lack of moral understanding, of the responsibility to at least speak out in opposition to governments that, as a matter of usual practice, make war on their own people, that I am assured that your age has not yet reached the double digit stage.
BTW, murder, starvation, oppression are the hallmarks of communism. Accepting these depredations or at least excusing or ignoring them is the hallmark of you lefties.

5. "...to have stayed in Vietnam longer..."
No, the Left went beyond remaining: they would not even allow material aid to be given to our former allies, such that they could defend themselves.

President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger pleaded with Congress to simply permit the noncommunists in Indochina to defend themselves.

a. When the Pentagon’s accountants tried to use a couple of hundred million dollars of unused appropriations left over from 1972 and 1973 to aid the South, Democrat Leader Ted Kennedy organized Senators, 43-38, to forbid the expenditure. David Frum, “How We Got Here,” p. 305.

b. Michigan Democrat Bob Carr, argued that, since Lon Nol regime couldn’t prevail, “won’t the granting of further aid only prolong the fighting, and, with it, the killing?” Frank Gregorsky, House Republican Study Committee, 1984 “What’s Wrong With Democratic Foreign Policy?” p. 16.

c. Democrat Senator Chris Dodd: “President Ford has tried to make this an issue of abandoning an ally…The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is not guns but peace. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now.” Washington Times, John Elvin, "Inside the Beltway,” April 17, 1990.
Of course, this was quickly followed by the massacre of over one quarter of the Cambodian population....no regret from Dodd.

d. Democrat Congressman Tom Downey: “To warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath.” Ibid.

e. NYTimes Sydney Schanberg, wrote this, published on the front page April 13, 1975: “for the ordinary people of Indochina…it is difficult to imagine how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone.” So, communist victory was nothing to dread.
He didn't have much of an imaginaton, did he?
He, and you, should have studied the reverberations from the Bolshevik revolution.


In summary, Noosie, you have pretty close to zero understanding of history, or of the media...the good news?
You'll probably have lots of free time after middle school to catch up.

 

[noose4]

Yes what we needed was military action against the Soviet Union during the height of the depression and to have stayed in Vietnam longer than we already had.

Noosie.....please tell me that you are five years old or younger!!!!

I had to read your post three times over, blinking furiously the entire time!

1. Did you notice that the thread was in 'Media'?

I meant it as an indictment of the MSM, and of the soft-brained and easily-led progressive- left in the United States.
Would I be correct in assuming that you would be included in that group?

2. I see you are an inhabitant of my city....did you know we have libraries? Places that loan books for free? You would be well served to avail yourself of same.

3. "...military action against the Soviet Union..."
The point of the OP, and perhaps I should have written more fully, is that the Commintern, the Communist International, had plans, revealed in the Soviet archives, to manipulate the American citizenry, and thereby make it easier for communist world domination.

The MSM has regularly assisted in this endeavor, either through stupidity, or with approval of those aims.
As it happens with metronomic regularity, it is therefore, difficult to excuse it as ignorance or accident.

4. Further, your post evinces such a lack of moral understanding, of the responsibility to at least speak out in opposition to governments that, as a matter of usual practice, make war on their own people, that I am assured that your age has not yet reached the double digit stage.
BTW, murder, starvation, oppression are the hallmarks of communism. Accepting these depredations or at least excusing or ignoring them is the hallmark of you lefties.

5. "...to have stayed in Vietnam longer..."
No, the Left went beyond remaining: they would not even allow material aid to be given to our former allies, such that they could defend themselves.

President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger pleaded with Congress to simply permit the noncommunists in Indochina to defend themselves.

a. When the Pentagon’s accountants tried to use a couple of hundred million dollars of unused appropriations left over from 1972 and 1973 to aid the South, Democrat Leader Ted Kennedy organized Senators, 43-38, to forbid the expenditure. David Frum, “How We Got Here,” p. 305.

b. Michigan Democrat Bob Carr, argued that, since Lon Nol regime couldn’t prevail, “won’t the granting of further aid only prolong the fighting, and, with it, the killing?” Frank Gregorsky, House Republican Study Committee, 1984 “What’s Wrong With Democratic Foreign Policy?” p. 16.

c. Democrat Senator Chris Dodd: “President Ford has tried to make this an issue of abandoning an ally…The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is not guns but peace. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now.” Washington Times, John Elvin, "Inside the Beltway,” April 17, 1990.
Of course, this was quickly followed by the massacre of over one quarter of the Cambodian population....no regret from Dodd.

d. Democrat Congressman Tom Downey: “To warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath.” Ibid.

e. NYTimes Sydney Schanberg, wrote this, published on the front page April 13, 1975: “for the ordinary people of Indochina…it is difficult to imagine how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone.” So, communist victory was nothing to dread.
He didn't have much of an imaginaton, did he?
He, and you, should have studied the reverberations from the Bolshevik revolution.


In summary, Noosie, you have pretty close to zero understanding of history, or of the media...the good news?
You'll probably have lots of free time after middle school to catch up.

What would be your solutions to the problems cited? What should we have done about the famine in the Ukraine or what happened in Cambodia?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes what we needed was military action against the Soviet Union during the height of the depression and to have stayed in Vietnam longer than we already had.

Noosie.....please tell me that you are five years old or younger!!!!

I had to read your post three times over, blinking furiously the entire time!

1. Did you notice that the thread was in 'Media'?

I meant it as an indictment of the MSM, and of the soft-brained and easily-led progressive- left in the United States.
Would I be correct in assuming that you would be included in that group?

2. I see you are an inhabitant of my city....did you know we have libraries? Places that loan books for free? You would be well served to avail yourself of same.

3. "...military action against the Soviet Union..."
The point of the OP, and perhaps I should have written more fully, is that the Commintern, the Communist International, had plans, revealed in the Soviet archives, to manipulate the American citizenry, and thereby make it easier for communist world domination.

The MSM has regularly assisted in this endeavor, either through stupidity, or with approval of those aims.
As it happens with metronomic regularity, it is therefore, difficult to excuse it as ignorance or accident.

4. Further, your post evinces such a lack of moral understanding, of the responsibility to at least speak out in opposition to governments that, as a matter of usual practice, make war on their own people, that I am assured that your age has not yet reached the double digit stage.
BTW, murder, starvation, oppression are the hallmarks of communism. Accepting these depredations or at least excusing or ignoring them is the hallmark of you lefties.

5. "...to have stayed in Vietnam longer..."
No, the Left went beyond remaining: they would not even allow material aid to be given to our former allies, such that they could defend themselves.

President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger pleaded with Congress to simply permit the noncommunists in Indochina to defend themselves.

a. When the Pentagon’s accountants tried to use a couple of hundred million dollars of unused appropriations left over from 1972 and 1973 to aid the South, Democrat Leader Ted Kennedy organized Senators, 43-38, to forbid the expenditure. David Frum, “How We Got Here,” p. 305.

b. Michigan Democrat Bob Carr, argued that, since Lon Nol regime couldn’t prevail, “won’t the granting of further aid only prolong the fighting, and, with it, the killing?” Frank Gregorsky, House Republican Study Committee, 1984 “What’s Wrong With Democratic Foreign Policy?” p. 16.

c. Democrat Senator Chris Dodd: “President Ford has tried to make this an issue of abandoning an ally…The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is not guns but peace. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now.” Washington Times, John Elvin, "Inside the Beltway,” April 17, 1990.
Of course, this was quickly followed by the massacre of over one quarter of the Cambodian population....no regret from Dodd.

d. Democrat Congressman Tom Downey: “To warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath.” Ibid.

e. NYTimes Sydney Schanberg, wrote this, published on the front page April 13, 1975: “for the ordinary people of Indochina…it is difficult to imagine how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone.” So, communist victory was nothing to dread.
He didn't have much of an imaginaton, did he?
He, and you, should have studied the reverberations from the Bolshevik revolution.


In summary, Noosie, you have pretty close to zero understanding of history, or of the media...the good news?
You'll probably have lots of free time after middle school to catch up.

What would be your solutions to the problems cited? What should we have done about the famine in the Ukraine or what happened in Cambodia?

I really appreciate your giving me the chance to answer that, as it relates to many larger questions.

1. Carlo D'Este quoted President Eisenhower in "Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life," (p.322) as saying "Public opinion wins wars."

2. I believe we can fairly state that it can lose wars as well. The media forms that opinion, and the media did exactly that in Vietnam. But you asked about Cambodia...well, if the nation had been correctly informed by the media, we might not have left the battlefields, in which we were winning...but at the very least we should have armed our allies, as the Soviet Union and China were with our enemies.

3. I never said we should have gone to war to save the farmers of the Ukraine. But we should have informed the public, ala Malcolm Muggeridge, who never fell for the communist manipulation...as Walter Duranty did. He wrote about the progressives like Duranty and John Dewey and George Bernard Shaw:

"“They are, unquestionably, one of the wonders of the age, that I shall treasure ‘til I die, as a blessed memory! The spectacle of them traveling, with radiant optimism through a famished countryside, wandering in happy bands about squalid overcrowded Soviet towns, listening with unshakable faith to the fatuous patter of carefully trained and indoctrinated guides, repeating like schoolchildren a multiplication table, the bogus statistics and mindless slogans endlessly intoned to them."
Malcolm Muggeridge quotes

His reputation suffered among the progressives for it.

The progressive heros were the dupes and 'undercover communists' in the press.

4. Had we used truth and moral persuasion, there is every chance that the gangster control of Russia would not have had to wait some seven decades to be confronted by the brave and wise Ronald Reagan.
Confrnoted, they crumbled with not a shot fired.

5. Remember, between one hundred million and one hundred and forty million human beings were exterminated at the hands of those beasts, not due to just famine, but government confiscation of their food.

And their partners were the Leftists who denied and excused their atrocities....and printed the lies in the press.

 

[noose4]

Noosie.....please tell me that you are five years old or younger!!!!

I had to read your post three times over, blinking furiously the entire time!

1. Did you notice that the thread was in 'Media'?

I meant it as an indictment of the MSM, and of the soft-brained and easily-led progressive- left in the United States.
Would I be correct in assuming that you would be included in that group?

2. I see you are an inhabitant of my city....did you know we have libraries? Places that loan books for free? You would be well served to avail yourself of same.

3. "...military action against the Soviet Union..."
The point of the OP, and perhaps I should have written more fully, is that the Commintern, the Communist International, had plans, revealed in the Soviet archives, to manipulate the American citizenry, and thereby make it easier for communist world domination.

The MSM has regularly assisted in this endeavor, either through stupidity, or with approval of those aims.
As it happens with metronomic regularity, it is therefore, difficult to excuse it as ignorance or accident.

4. Further, your post evinces such a lack of moral understanding, of the responsibility to at least speak out in opposition to governments that, as a matter of usual practice, make war on their own people, that I am assured that your age has not yet reached the double digit stage.
BTW, murder, starvation, oppression are the hallmarks of communism. Accepting these depredations or at least excusing or ignoring them is the hallmark of you lefties.

5. "...to have stayed in Vietnam longer..."
No, the Left went beyond remaining: they would not even allow material aid to be given to our former allies, such that they could defend themselves.

President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger pleaded with Congress to simply permit the noncommunists in Indochina to defend themselves.

a. When the Pentagon’s accountants tried to use a couple of hundred million dollars of unused appropriations left over from 1972 and 1973 to aid the South, Democrat Leader Ted Kennedy organized Senators, 43-38, to forbid the expenditure. David Frum, “How We Got Here,” p. 305.

b. Michigan Democrat Bob Carr, argued that, since Lon Nol regime couldn’t prevail, “won’t the granting of further aid only prolong the fighting, and, with it, the killing?” Frank Gregorsky, House Republican Study Committee, 1984 “What’s Wrong With Democratic Foreign Policy?” p. 16.

c. Democrat Senator Chris Dodd: “President Ford has tried to make this an issue of abandoning an ally…The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is not guns but peace. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now.” Washington Times, John Elvin, "Inside the Beltway,” April 17, 1990.
Of course, this was quickly followed by the massacre of over one quarter of the Cambodian population....no regret from Dodd.

d. Democrat Congressman Tom Downey: “To warn of a new bloodbath is no justification for extending the current bloodbath.” Ibid.

e. NYTimes Sydney Schanberg, wrote this, published on the front page April 13, 1975: “for the ordinary people of Indochina…it is difficult to imagine how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone.” So, communist victory was nothing to dread.
He didn't have much of an imaginaton, did he?
He, and you, should have studied the reverberations from the Bolshevik revolution.


In summary, Noosie, you have pretty close to zero understanding of history, or of the media...the good news?
You'll probably have lots of free time after middle school to catch up.

What would be your solutions to the problems cited? What should we have done about the famine in the Ukraine or what happened in Cambodia?

I really appreciate your giving me the chance to answer that, as it relates to many larger questions.

1. Carlo D'Este quoted President Eisenhower in "Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life," (p.322) as saying "Public opinion wins wars."

2. I believe we can fairly state that it can lose wars as well. The media forms that opinion, and the media did exactly that in Vietnam. But you asked about Cambodia...well, if the nation had been correctly informed by the media, we might not have left the battlefields, in which we were winning...but at the very least we should have armed our allies, as the Soviet Union and China were with our enemies.

3. I never said we should have gone to war to save the farmers of the Ukraine. But we should have informed the public, ala Malcolm Muggeridge, who never fell for the communist manipulation...as Walter Duranty did. He wrote about the progressives like Duranty and John Dewey and George Bernard Shaw:

"“They are, unquestionably, one of the wonders of the age, that I shall treasure ‘til I die, as a blessed memory! The spectacle of them traveling, with radiant optimism through a famished countryside, wandering in happy bands about squalid overcrowded Soviet towns, listening with unshakable faith to the fatuous patter of carefully trained and indoctrinated guides, repeating like schoolchildren a multiplication table, the bogus statistics and mindless slogans endlessly intoned to them."
Malcolm Muggeridge quotes

His reputation suffered among the progressives for it.

The progressive heros were the dupes and 'undercover communists' in the press.

4. Had we used truth and moral persuasion, there is every chance that the gangster control of Russia would not have had to wait some seven decades to be confronted by the brave and wise Ronald Reagan.
Confrnoted, they crumbled with not a shot fired.

5. Remember, between one hundred million and one hundred and forty million human beings were exterminated at the hands of those beasts, not due to just famine, but government confiscation of their food.

And their partners were the Leftists who denied and excused their atrocities....and printed the lies in the press.

Such a large pile of bullshit you need 2 trucks to haul it away.

 

[Si modo]

I have little doubt that the NYT was in Lenin's mind when he spoke of useful idiots.

 

[del]

personally, i find people who use the term MSM difficult to take seriously.

this thread has provided no exception to that.

 

[Sallow]

No one was the "dupe" of anyone. The Soviet Union was an incredibly secretive place..and couple that with the yellow dog journalism from only a couple of decades prior to this story and it might become clear why reporting may not of been as accurate as it was..

And the Khmer Rouge rose as a RESULT of America's actions in the region. Nixon, initially, albeit briefly, supported them as a foil to the NVA. And it was the NVA that ultimately got rid of them.

PC of course ignores all context and goes on to indict that which she hates.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What would be your solutions to the problems cited? What should we have done about the famine in the Ukraine or what happened in Cambodia?

I really appreciate your giving me the chance to answer that, as it relates to many larger questions.

1. Carlo D'Este quoted President Eisenhower in "Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life," (p.322) as saying "Public opinion wins wars."

2. I believe we can fairly state that it can lose wars as well. The media forms that opinion, and the media did exactly that in Vietnam. But you asked about Cambodia...well, if the nation had been correctly informed by the media, we might not have left the battlefields, in which we were winning...but at the very least we should have armed our allies, as the Soviet Union and China were with our enemies.

3. I never said we should have gone to war to save the farmers of the Ukraine. But we should have informed the public, ala Malcolm Muggeridge, who never fell for the communist manipulation...as Walter Duranty did. He wrote about the progressives like Duranty and John Dewey and George Bernard Shaw:

"“They are, unquestionably, one of the wonders of the age, that I shall treasure ‘til I die, as a blessed memory! The spectacle of them traveling, with radiant optimism through a famished countryside, wandering in happy bands about squalid overcrowded Soviet towns, listening with unshakable faith to the fatuous patter of carefully trained and indoctrinated guides, repeating like schoolchildren a multiplication table, the bogus statistics and mindless slogans endlessly intoned to them."
Malcolm Muggeridge quotes

His reputation suffered among the progressives for it.

The progressive heros were the dupes and 'undercover communists' in the press.

4. Had we used truth and moral persuasion, there is every chance that the gangster control of Russia would not have had to wait some seven decades to be confronted by the brave and wise Ronald Reagan.
Confrnoted, they crumbled with not a shot fired.

5. Remember, between one hundred million and one hundred and forty million human beings were exterminated at the hands of those beasts, not due to just famine, but government confiscation of their food.

And their partners were the Leftists who denied and excused their atrocities....and printed the lies in the press.

Such a large pile of bullshit you need 2 trucks to haul it away.

I get such a kick out of the empty posts from folks like you when you have no counter.

Sorry, stupidity is not a handicap. You can't park in those spots.

 

[whitehall]

After the hard won Tet victory of American forces in VietNam Walter Cronkite rushed over and put on a helmet and a flack jacket to pretend he was under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. Just when American forces finally eliminated the VC's last offensive Cronkite gave new life to the communist movement and caused the coward in the oval office to throw in the towel and American forces to abandon the Vietnamese people.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No one was the "dupe" of anyone. The Soviet Union was an incredibly secretive place..and couple that with the yellow dog journalism from only a couple of decades prior to this story and it might become clear why reporting may not of been as accurate as it was..

And the Khmer Rouge rose as a RESULT of America's actions in the region. Nixon, initially, albeit briefly, supported them as a foil to the NVA. And it was the NVA that ultimately got rid of them.

PC of course ignores all context and goes on to indict that which she hates.

Wrong, again, Toothy.

But, I like you so I'll provide the instruction you so dearly need.
Much of the following from Paul Kangor's aptly named tome, "Dupes." What could be better for your instruction???

1. In the early years after the Bolshevik Revolution, the communists used manipulations, such as the Potemkin Villages, to pursued the world how admirable and successful the revolution had been. One technique was to invite prominent American and British leftists to take carefully planned tours. And these ‘Potemkin Progressives,’ for the most part, behaved and thought just as they were meant to. Woodrow Wilson wouldn’t recognize the Bolshevik regime, nor would the contemporary British government (Churchill had famously told Lloyd George, ‘You might a well legalize sodomy…’)

a. Toothy says "No one was the "dupe" of anyone." But the truth is that Lenin, and then Stalin, carefully arranged the tours so that these progressives would then go back to their countries and praise Soviet Russia, and have the citizens demand that Russia be recognized. See, that's what 'dupes' means.

2. H.G. Wells met with Stalin in 1934, and wrote “I’ve never met a man more candid, fair and honest!” and “…everyone trusts him!’ And of Lenin, “…frank, refreshing, and an amazing little man!’ Of course, 1934 was the start of the Great Purge, “Sergey Kirov's murder in 1934 was used by Stalin as a pretext to launch the Great Purge, in which about a million people perished. Some later historians came to believe that Stalin himself arranged the murder, or at least that there was sufficient evidence to reach such a conclusion.” Conquest, Robert, “Stalin and the Kirov Murder”, p. 122-138.

3. Another 'dupe,' Toothy? George Bernard Shaw met with Stalin, as well. He returned, and wrote, “ We cannot afford to give ourselves moral airs when our most enterprising neighbors, the Soviet Union, humanely and judiciously liquidates a handful of exploiters and speculators to make the world safe for honest men.” Now, lest one thinks this was said sarcastically, Lady Aster and others who were present, and took notes, from the meeting, wrote that that was exactly and precisely what Stalin had said. He parroted the exact line that Stalin had given him!

a. When he returned from the Soviet Union, Shaw backed up ever lie that Walter Duranty reported. He testified that there was not, and never could be, a food shortage in the USSR. Paul Hollander, “Political Pilgrims,” p.119

b. Don't forget the dupes Duranty, Salisbury, Anthony Lewis, all wrote in the dupe-journal, the NYTimes.

And, of course, there's you!

4. "And the Khmer Rouge rose as a RESULT of America's actions in the region."
Now, I commend you re: Nixon and the North Vietnamese, I'll bet few on the board even know that much....but you couldn't be more ignorant about the origins of the Khmer Rouge!

The actuality is that it was North Vietnam that widened the war, not the United States. It was before 1965 that Hanoi created the Khmer Rouge (as early as WWII) and the Pathet Lao (mid ‘50’s) with the goal of conquering all of Indochina for communism.
Care to bet on this one?

a. In “Sideshow,” William Shawcross claims that the 1970 bombings caused the coup in which Prince Sihanouk was by Lon Nol. But this adumbrates the issues, as Sihanouk attempted to be too clever, allowing the Vietnamese to invade his country, and then telling Kissinger he could bomb them.

b. The North Vietnamese were getting support from the Soviet Union and China, determined to support wars of “national liberation.”

c. In 1994, Shawcross acknowledged his error: “Those of us who opposed the American war in Indochina should be extremely humble in the face of the appalling aftermath: a form of genocide in Cambodia and horrific tyranny in both Vietnam and Laos. Looking back on my own coverage for The Sunday Times...,I think I concentrated too easily on the corruption and incompetence of the South Vietnamese and their American allies, was too ignorant of the inhuman Hanoi regime, and far too willing to believe that a victory by the Communists would provide a better future. But after the Communist victory came the refugees to Thailand and the floods of boat people desperately seeking to escape the Cambodian killing fields and the Vietnamese gulags. Their eloquent testimony should have put paid to all illusions.” William Shawcross - writer and broadcaster, UK : official personal website


Do the honorable thing and admit you were wrong....or, put your bushy tail between your legs and slink away.

 

[ginscpy]

Some eyewitnesses claim that Stalin opened his eyes on his deathbed after he was declared officially dead.

Never understood The Lefts affinity for genocidal commie dictators - Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Castro - list goes on and on.........................

 

[noose4]

I really appreciate your giving me the chance to answer that, as it relates to many larger questions.

1. Carlo D'Este quoted President Eisenhower in "Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life," (p.322) as saying "Public opinion wins wars."

2. I believe we can fairly state that it can lose wars as well. The media forms that opinion, and the media did exactly that in Vietnam. But you asked about Cambodia...well, if the nation had been correctly informed by the media, we might not have left the battlefields, in which we were winning...but at the very least we should have armed our allies, as the Soviet Union and China were with our enemies.

3. I never said we should have gone to war to save the farmers of the Ukraine. But we should have informed the public, ala Malcolm Muggeridge, who never fell for the communist manipulation...as Walter Duranty did. He wrote about the progressives like Duranty and John Dewey and George Bernard Shaw:

"“They are, unquestionably, one of the wonders of the age, that I shall treasure ‘til I die, as a blessed memory! The spectacle of them traveling, with radiant optimism through a famished countryside, wandering in happy bands about squalid overcrowded Soviet towns, listening with unshakable faith to the fatuous patter of carefully trained and indoctrinated guides, repeating like schoolchildren a multiplication table, the bogus statistics and mindless slogans endlessly intoned to them."
Malcolm Muggeridge quotes

His reputation suffered among the progressives for it.

The progressive heros were the dupes and 'undercover communists' in the press.

4. Had we used truth and moral persuasion, there is every chance that the gangster control of Russia would not have had to wait some seven decades to be confronted by the brave and wise Ronald Reagan.
Confrnoted, they crumbled with not a shot fired.

5. Remember, between one hundred million and one hundred and forty million human beings were exterminated at the hands of those beasts, not due to just famine, but government confiscation of their food.

And their partners were the Leftists who denied and excused their atrocities....and printed the lies in the press.

Such a large pile of bullshit you need 2 trucks to haul it away.

I get such a kick out of the empty posts from folks like you when you have no counter.

Sorry, stupidity is not a handicap. You can't park in those spots.

There is no counter to horse shit you just hold your nose and sweep it up.

 

[Toro]

Some eyewitnesses claim that Stalin opened his eyes on his deathbed after he was declared officially dead.

Never understood The Lefts affinity for genocidal commie dictators - Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Castro - list goes on and on.........................

As opposed to Right's support for brutal dictators, like

Pinochet
Suharto
Videla
Stroessner
Somoza
The Shah
Trujillo
Various generals in Guatemala
Noriega
The House of Saud


etc.

 

[Trajan]

1. On this very day, March 31, 1931 Walter Duranty reported in the NYTimes “there is no famine (in the Ukraine),” while 7 –10 million were starved to death.
In his New York Times articles (including one published on March 31, 1933), Duranty repeatedly denied the existence of a Ukrainian famine in 1932–33. In an August 24, 1933 article in NYT, he claimed "any report of a famine is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda." Duranty won a Pulitzer Prize in 1932.

And, the reporting of this dupe of Joseph Stalin reverberated in the West, where thousands of liberal-progressives bought it like it was on sale, and supported the 'worker's paradise.'

2. Of course, this is but one of the many times the MSM, particularly the NYTimes influenced widespread support of Left-Wing interests.
There was the time the NYTimes’ Harrison Salisbury traveled to North Vietnam in 1966-67, and reported that the US was deliberately targeting the civilian population. But Guenter Lewy, in “America in Vietnam,” revealed that “Only after the articles had appeared did a small number of persons learn that Salisbury, in effect, had given the authority of his byline to unverified Communist propaganda and the New York Times printed it as though Salisbury had established it himself with his own on-the-scene reporting…borrowed extensively from a North Vietnamese propaganda pamphlet, “Report on US War Crimes in Nam-Dinh City…” Lewy,"America in Vietnam," p. 400-401

3. And when warned of the bloodbath that Communist victory in Cambodia would bring, here is the type of MSM reporting that sways so many:
NYTimes Anthony Lewis: “Some will find the whole bloodbath debate unreal. What future possibility could be more terrible than the reality of what is happening in Cambodia now?” Anthony Lewis in the New York Times, March 17, 1975.

What future possibility?
Here is what happened:
Starting in April ’75, the Communist Khmer Rouge defeated Lon Nol in Cambodia. Democrats, starting with the 1974 budget, refused to allocate another penny, and forbade US military action “in or over” Indochina. Just as the right had warned, the communists began a systematic war on the entire populations of their nation, so savage, it is hard to comprehend. It is estimated that the number of dead numbered between 1.7 to 2.5 million out of a population of around 8 million. The Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Too bad there was no Fox News or right-wing talk radio, eh?

another alumnus of the vaunted NY Times....Herbert Matthews

 

[Trajan]

Some eyewitnesses claim that Stalin opened his eyes on his deathbed after he was declared officially dead.

Never understood The Lefts affinity for genocidal commie dictators - Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Castro - list goes on and on.........................

As opposed to Right's support for brutal dictators, like

Pinochet
Suharto
Videla
Stroessner
Somoza
The Shah
Trujillo
Various generals in Guatemala
Noriega
The House of Saud


etc.

and Qaddafi..oh wait...well saddam....

anyway, whats the over and under on the deaths and/or general welfare we ignore assist or not?