The Scum also Rises...again

Bullypulpit

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2004
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384
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Columbus, OH
By JONATHAN D. TEPPERMAN

<blockquote>The Bush administration has yet to accept much responsibility for the torture at Abu Ghraib prison. True, the president has apologized for the abuse on Arab television, and several top military officials in Iraq — including the general in charge of the prison and her boss — have been quietly suspended or will soon be transferred. But so far, legal responsibility has fallen exclusively on the seven court-martialed soldiers who were directly involved. Administration officials have argued that they themselves are not liable, since the incidents were the work of a few bad actors.

This may or may not be true. Even if no smoking gun is ever found to directly link American officials to the crimes, however, they could still find themselves in serious jeopardy under international law. Under the doctrine of command responsibility, officials can be held accountable for war crimes committed by their subordinates even if they did not order them — so long as they had control over the perpetrators, had reason to know about the crimes, and did not stop them or punish the criminals.

This doctrine is the product of an American initiative. Devised by Allied judges and prosecutors at the Nuremberg tribunals, it was a means to impute responsibility for wartime atrocities to Nazi leaders, who often communicated indirectly and avoided leaving a paper trail.

More recently, the principle has been fine-tuned by two other American creations: the international tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda, which were established in the last decade by the United Nations Security Council at the United States' behest. These tribunals have held that political and military leaders can be found liable for war crimes committed by those under their "effective control" if they do nothing to prevent them.</blockquote>

We may yet see administration officials in the dock for the abuses perpetrated at Abu Ghraib. That the administration was complicit is becoming increasingly clear, and the possibility that cabinet members may be named as war criminals looms...Its time for them to pay the piper.
 
I watch the full testimony of John Ashcroft on this subject. Funny how repubs never do this stuff. He got his ass handed to him, because he would release the memos, even though they were already leaked.
He said that the president a memo on torture saying to signing off on upholding the geneva conventions.
BUT! when asked if the president got any other memos relating to torture, he couldnt answer! and he would say no, or yes.
The commitee members realized he was dodging the question and said he would be in contempt of congress unless he came back with a valid answer to the simple question.
there were a few other moments like this, was great. Should watch it. Funny how cons pay less attention to these things. :rolleyes:
 
THis is a violation of attorney client privelege, something libs like to invoke when getting murderers back on the street.
 
Originally posted by Xenimus
He got his ass handed to him, because he would release the memos, even though they were already leaked.
He said that the president a memo on torture saying to signing off on upholding the geneva conventions.

Come on, when you're criticizing Asscroft you've got to make sure that your sentences make sense. :D
 
Originally posted by Xenimus
I watch the full testimony of John Ashcroft on this subject. Funny how repubs never do this stuff. He got his ass handed to him, because he would release the memos, even though they were already leaked.
He said that the president a memo on torture saying to signing off on upholding the geneva conventions.
BUT! when asked if the president got any other memos relating to torture, he couldnt answer! and he would say no, or yes.
The commitee members realized he was dodging the question and said he would be in contempt of congress unless he came back with a valid answer to the simple question.
there were a few other moments like this, was great. Should watch it. Funny how cons pay less attention to these things. :rolleyes:

Are you in the 1st grade? This was so poorly written I gave up half way through the 1st paragraph. What a joke!
 
Originally posted by OCA
Are you in the 1st grade? This was so poorly written I gave uo half way through the 1st paragraph. What a joke!

This is when I invoke the "Are you drunk?" question.
 
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
THis is a violation of attorney client privelege, something libs like to invoke when getting murderers back on the street.

There is no issue of attorney/client priviledge here. Herr Ashcroft is just stupid enough to be willing to fall on his sword for Dubbyuh.
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
There is no issue of attorney/client priviledge here. Herr Ashcroft is just stupid enough to be willing to fall on his sword for Dubbyuh.

Of course there is. Tell me why not. Is he not an attorney advising the president?
 
I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners...
however, I think it is vitally important that, in my head,
I have these matters in proper perspective...

* Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death,
in human meat grinders, on a daily basis...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

*Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings,
while their relatives were forced to watch...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped off
and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam's sons, as well as other administrators and military
personnel, raped and sodomized Iraqi girls - some as young
as 8 years old - on a daily basis...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death hundreds upon thousands of Iraqi citizens, on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves
recently uncovered, in various parts of Iraq...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad,
killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent
Iraqi citizens...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers,
on a daily basis, since we sent our troops (many of whom
gave their lives on Iraqi soil) and used US taxpayer dollars
to liberate the Iraqi people...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Four Americans were killed in Fallujah. Their bodies were burned,
mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung
on a bridge, while Iraqi people cheered and stoned them....
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

AND NOW...
A few Iraqi prisoners have been humiliated (poor babies)...
A pair of women's underwear was put on their heads...
A few naked photographs were taken...
AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE GO BALLISTIC...
ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY....
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

As said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners,
but, until the Iraqi people and the Arab Community,
as a whole, get their act together...

WE ARE AT WAR!
AND I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE
TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING!
 
Originally posted by Pale Rider
I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners...
however, I think it is vitally important that, in my head,
I have these matters in proper perspective...

* Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death,
in human meat grinders, on a daily basis...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

*Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings,
while their relatives were forced to watch...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped off
and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam's sons, as well as other administrators and military
personnel, raped and sodomized Iraqi girls - some as young
as 8 years old - on a daily basis...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death hundreds upon thousands of Iraqi citizens, on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves
recently uncovered, in various parts of Iraq...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad,
killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent
Iraqi citizens...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers,
on a daily basis, since we sent our troops (many of whom
gave their lives on Iraqi soil) and used US taxpayer dollars
to liberate the Iraqi people...
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

* Four Americans were killed in Fallujah. Their bodies were burned,
mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung
on a bridge, while Iraqi people cheered and stoned them....
NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE
OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

AND NOW...
A few Iraqi prisoners have been humiliated (poor babies)...
A pair of women's underwear was put on their heads...
A few naked photographs were taken...
AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE GO BALLISTIC...
ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY....
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

As said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners,
but, until the Iraqi people and the Arab Community,
as a whole, get their act together...

WE ARE AT WAR!
AND I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE
TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING!

I might add that there was no outcry from the US. After all, it was the Reagan and Bush I administrations that created the monster in the first place.

Our elected leaders have abdicated their moral responsibility in condoning torture...they have sunk into the mire that the terrorists play in...It is their turf, and we cannot compete there or this nation loses what little credibility it has left. The moral high ground must never be abandoned for the sake of questionable ends, and this is exactly what Dubbyuh and his merry band have done...sir. They have dragged this nation into the mire with the terrorists...They have abandoned the principles which made this nation great.
 
Bully a little reality check here:
I might add that there was no outcry from the US. After all, it was the Reagan and Bush I administrations that created the monster in the first place.
http://www.sipri.se/

Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, provides a breakdown of which nations supplied weapons to Iraq between 1973 and 2002.

Number one, by far, was the former Soviet Union (Russia) with a whopping 57 percent. Next came peace-loving France with 13 percent, followed by China at 12 percent, Czechoslovakia at 7 percent, Poland with 4 percent and Brazil with 2 percent.

Bringing up the rear were Egypt, Romania, Denmark, Libya and those warmongering cowboys, the United States of America, with a paltry 1 percent each.
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
I might add that there was no outcry from the US. After all, it was the Reagan and Bush I administrations that created the monster in the first place.

Our elected leaders have abdicated their moral responsibility in condoning torture...they have sunk into the mire that the terrorists play in...It is their turf, and we cannot compete there or this nation loses what little credibility it has left. The moral high ground must never be abandoned for the sake of questionable ends, and this is exactly what Dubbyuh and his merry band have done...sir. They have dragged this nation into the mire with the terrorists...They have abandoned the principles which made this nation great.

You're so full of shit, it's hard to mire through the utter crap you post.

You have twisted this issue into such a fucking abortion, it's not worth responding to anymore.

At least it's nice to know that you keep your faith in God.
 
Originally posted by Pale Rider
You're so full of shit, it's hard to mire through the utter crap you post.

You have twisted this issue into such a fucking abortion, it's not worth responding to anymore.

At least it's nice to know that you keep your faith in God.

There's something to what you say, Pale Rider.
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Which one...? ;)

Well I know you don't care much for our Lord Jesus Christ, but it's obvious you just adore satan.

I hope you like heat....
 

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