The Ron Paul types and inflation

And the other fail in your post is the JP Morgan part. I suppose you're unaware of JP Morgan's primary role during the 2008 collapse, where they backstopped much of the failure in the financial marketplace. And if it's not Morgan taking on these roles, it's Goldman.
And -surprise, surprise- a representative of Chase Manhattan was among the inner circle that created the Fed...A group which also included a rep from National City Bank (Rockefeller), now known as Citigroup, which got bazillions in bailout dough.

Hmmmm...:eusa_think:
 
And the other fail in your post is the JP Morgan part. I suppose you're unaware of JP Morgan's primary role during the 2008 collapse, where they backstopped much of the failure in the financial marketplace. And if it's not Morgan taking on these roles, it's Goldman.
And -surprise, surprise- a representative of Chase Manhattan was among the inner circle that created the Fed...A group which also included a rep from National City Bank (Rockefeller), now known as Citigroup, which got bazillions in bailout dough.

Hmmmm...:eusa_think:


bailout dough was all paid back!! Sorry
 
Well increasing demand is the same as reinflating the bubble. The artificial demand is what causes these bubbles.

yes great point. liberal spending creates artificial demand or bubbles or mal investment. Then, we have a recession while the free market puts people and things back in their proper free market places.

Liberals are deadly to the economy!
 
Its very simplistic to say that fall in aggregate demand caused the recession.

There's nothing simple about how demand can affect real economic activity.

Indeed, and thats why its stupid to just generalize simplistic statement like "fall in demand caused it".

It's not simplistic. It's shorthand for "in response to increased uncertainty about the future economic agents increased their desire to hold liquidity; this caused a fall in monetary velocity; the fall in velocity put downward pressure on nominal spending; the central bank allowed nominal spending to fall far below trend; a fall in nominal spending puts downward pressure on nominal wages and the price level; nominal wages and prices are sticky downward; since wages and prices can't adjust quickly real output falls instead and a recession ensues". Pardon me for assuming that people on an economics forum are somewhat economically initiated.


How so? Obviously inflation of the bubble WAS what lead to the recession.

How do you figure that a bubble bursting would cause such a deep and long recession, or any recession at all for that matter. In 1987 the stock market experienced a gigantic collapse in value. The DJIA fell over 24% in one day. Yet there was no recession...

Yeah you could keep the bubble up by lowering interest rates and misallocating more resources but the bubble problem would still be there. The bubble is the problem, not that it burst because "lack of demand".

Ah. I see you're using Austrian Business Cycle language there. I'm not interested in having a conversation with somebody who adheres to a dogmatic faith in a poor excuse for economics. If you're not an ABCT person, you can explain to me why bubbles are supposed to cause economy-wide recessions and not just downturns in the sectors in which the bubble existed.


Yeah and extremely overpriced housing had nothing to do with it. But NO! It wasnt actually housing bubble, it was just general fall in demand! If only could we make people waste their money by buying more overpriced house via increasing demand!

I don't know what position you think you're arguing against, but it's certainly not mine.

Well increasing demand is the same as reinflating the bubble. The artificial demand is what causes these bubbles.

That's lunacy. Explain yourself.
 
Well increasing demand is the same as reinflating the bubble. The artificial demand is what causes these bubbles.

yes great point. liberal spending creates artificial demand or bubbles or mal investment. Then, we have a recession while the free market puts people and things back in their proper free market places.

Liberals are deadly to the economy!

You're buying into this Austrian nonsense? I thought you took Econ 101?! You should know better.
 
[
Monetary policy is always effective.

a perfectly idiotic thing to say given that most agree it caused the Depression, the Carter inflation, and this Great Recession!! Maybe you meant to say it was always effective in causing depressions recessions and inflations??

Perhaps you're unaware of the context of monetary policy - maybe Econ 101 was slack when it came to monetary theory: Monetary policy is always effective at controlling aggregate demand.

It was lack of aggregate demand that caused the Depression and the current downturn. As for the Carter inflation, nobody is suggesting that the central bank print as much money as they want, I want them to print only so

much as to stabilize the path of aggregate demand.

Yes it was a lack of demand caused by 1/3 loss of money supply. Fdr firstly sent money to the banks then bought gold to restore prices. To say lack of demand is the least meaningful way to describe it or suggest remedies for it which is why Friedman says it caused by lack of money , not lack of demand
 
a perfectly idiotic thing to say given that most agree it caused the Depression, the Carter inflation, and this Great Recession!! Maybe you meant to say it was always effective in causing depressions recessions and inflations??

Perhaps you're unaware of the context of monetary policy - maybe Econ 101 was slack when it came to monetary theory: Monetary policy is always effective at controlling aggregate demand.

It was lack of aggregate demand that caused the Depression and the current downturn. As for the Carter inflation, nobody is suggesting that the central bank print as much money as they want, I want them to print only so

much as to stabilize the path of aggregate demand.

Yes it was a lack of demand caused by 1/3 loss of money supply. Fdr firstly sent money to the banks then bought gold to restore prices. To say lack of demand is the least meaningful way to describe it or suggest remedies for it which is why Friedman says it caused by lack of money , not lack of demand

That's what too little money does (causes a lack of demand). The money stock affects the real economy through aggregate demand. If money is too tight, as it was during the depression and now, the lack of demand puts pressure on nominal variables to fall to restore demand; nominal rigidities prevent this from happening quickly and output falls instead (a recession).
 
I don't think there's any doubt that Ron Paul has some very correct ideas in regards to foreign policy and some aspects of social policy - and I'm impressed that he has the balls to stick by them even though he frequently get booed for it

He's the right wing nutjob dujour.

His imact on actual public policy is practically zero. If anything, Ralph Nader-style, he hurts his own party by being divisive.
 
Yes it was a lack of demand caused by 1/3 loss of money supply. Fdr firstly sent money to the banks then bought gold to restore prices. To say lack of demand is the least meaningful way to describe it or suggest remedies for it which is why Friedman says it caused by lack of money , not lack of demand[/quote]

That's what too little money does (causes a lack of demand). .

please reread for comprehension. It is not meaningful to talk about lack of demand which is why Friedman said it was lack of money based on bank failures that caused lack of demand. Lack of demand can be caused by many things. Catching on now???
 
Last edited:
Yes it was a lack of demand caused by 1/3 loss of money supply. Fdr firstly sent money to the banks then bought gold to restore prices. To say lack of demand is the least meaningful way to describe it or suggest remedies for it which is why Friedman says it caused by lack of money , not lack of demand

That's what too little money does (causes a lack of demand). .

please reread for comprehension. It is not meaningful to talk about lack of demand which is why Friedman said it was lack of money based on bank failures that caused lack of demand. Lack of demand can be caused by many things. Catching on now???[/QUOTE]

Then explain to me how money can impact the real economy.

No, lack of demand can not be caused by many things. Remember the equation of exchange: MV = PY. The right hand side is total nominal spending (aggregate demand). The right hand side is money and monetary velocity. Aggregate demand can only fall if A) the money supply falls, B) money demand increases and the supply does not increase to offset it. It's through PY (aggregate demand) that money affects the real economy. If MV falls, PY has to fall. Since prices and wages aren't full flexible, P can't fall quickly enough, so Y falls (and we get a demand-side recession). You may want to go over your course notes from Econ 101.
 
Then explain to me how money can impact the real economy.

No, lack of demand can not be caused by many things.

It can be caused by housing bubble
It can be caused by bank failures
It can be caused by high interest rates
It can be caused by a very scary left wing president.
It can be caused by deflation
Etc etc etc etc
 
Then explain to me how money can impact the real economy.

No, lack of demand can not be caused by many things.

It can be caused by housing bubble
It can be caused by bank failures
It can be caused by high interest rates
It can be caused by a very scary left wing president.
It can be caused by deflation
Etc etc etc etc

You haven't explained how they lower nominal spending and you haven't explained how money impacts the real economy.

I've already explained why money impacts the real economy. Now I'll tell you why those things lower nominal spending. They cause people to hold more money as a security against future uncertainty. In other words, monetary velocity drops.

Nominal spending (aggregate demand) is PY. You didn't bother addressing it in my post, thanks. I like that I put in the time and effort to produce a well thought out response and you respond to one fucking sentence and ignore the rest.

By the equation of exchange, MV = PY. That is, the quantity of money multiplied by monetary velocity = aggregate demand. Say there's a housing bubble collapse (or a 1929 stock market crash), people try to hold more money. V falls. If M were to remain constant, aggregate demand would have to fall, which would create a recession. But the central bank can just increase M to offset the fall in V, keeping aggregate demand unchanged, preventing a recession. Any fall in demand occurs because the central bank does not use monetary policy to offset changes in the velocity of money. It is tight money that allows demand-side recessions to happen.
 
he's extremely dumb.

why be so afraid to present you best example so we'll know if he's dumb or you're dumb??

I provided my best example. Inflation. Everything he says about inflation is ridiculous.

How so? He links inflationary monetary policies to the bubbles that we've been enduring the past couple decades, and he's been right.

Go to your grocery store and tell me there's no inflation right now.
 
why be so afraid to present you best example so we'll know if he's dumb or you're dumb??

I provided my best example. Inflation. Everything he says about inflation is ridiculous.

How so? He links inflationary monetary policies to the bubbles that we've been enduring the past couple decades, and he's been right.

Go to your grocery store and tell me there's no inflation right now.

Nobody is saying there isn't any inflation. All countries target a low but non-zero inflation rate. The like between monetary policy and bubbles is ridiculous, especially since monetary policy wasn't especially loose over the last 20 years. He's another person who focuses on interest rates to assess the stance of monetary policy, which is idiotic. He doesn't recognise that income adjusts upwards when prices rise too. If prices rise, so do wages (inflation is a problem for people on fixed incomes, but they get indexed to wage growth in the US). If prices fall, that doesn't mean people can buy more, because wages also fall. So he doesn't seem to understand long run neutrality of money.
 
I provided my best example. Inflation. Everything he says about inflation is ridiculous.

How so? He links inflationary monetary policies to the bubbles that we've been enduring the past couple decades, and he's been right.

Go to your grocery store and tell me there's no inflation right now.

Nobody is saying there isn't any inflation. All countries target a low but non-zero inflation rate. The like between monetary policy and bubbles is ridiculous, especially since monetary policy wasn't especially loose over the last 20 years. He's another person who focuses on interest rates to assess the stance of monetary policy, which is idiotic. He doesn't recognise that income adjusts upwards when prices rise too. If prices rise, so do wages (inflation is a problem for people on fixed incomes, but they get indexed to wage growth in the US). If prices fall, that doesn't mean people can buy more, because wages also fall. So he doesn't seem to understand long run neutrality of money.

You must be living on a different planet than me. Wages are keeping up with inflation? You're out of your mind.
 
How so? He links inflationary monetary policies to the bubbles that we've been enduring the past couple decades, and he's been right.

Go to your grocery store and tell me there's no inflation right now.

Nobody is saying there isn't any inflation. All countries target a low but non-zero inflation rate. The like between monetary policy and bubbles is ridiculous, especially since monetary policy wasn't especially loose over the last 20 years. He's another person who focuses on interest rates to assess the stance of monetary policy, which is idiotic. He doesn't recognise that income adjusts upwards when prices rise too. If prices rise, so do wages (inflation is a problem for people on fixed incomes, but they get indexed to wage growth in the US). If prices fall, that doesn't mean people can buy more, because wages also fall. So he doesn't seem to understand long run neutrality of money.

You must be living on a different planet than me. Wages are keeping up with inflation? You're out of your mind.

Yes.

fredgraph.png


And over the long run wages increase much faster than inflation due to productivity gains.

Both indexed to 1960 = 100.
fredgraph.png
 

Forum List

Back
Top