The Roman exile of the biblical Jews... fact or yet another lie?

[louie888]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

Have you never heard of or seen the Arch of Titus in Rome?

 

[louie888]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

Have you never heard of or seen the Arch of Titus in Rome?

Yes I have. It is a very nice structure, but 100% incapable of relocating even one person.

Please tell me we agree here or you are disqualifid from further posting on this thread.

Unless of course, you can come back with actual historical proof that this event happened.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I am talking about what's engraved on it--artifacts from the Temple and slaves from Judea being relocated to Europe. What did you think I was referring to when I mentioned the Arch of Titus?

 

[louie888]

I am talking about what's engraved on it--artifacts from the Temple and slaves from Judea being relocated to Europe. What did you think I was referring to when I mentioned the Arch of Titus?

Please read the OP again.

 

[norwegen]

I am talking about what's engraved on it--artifacts from the Temple and slaves from Judea being relocated to Europe. What did you think I was referring to when I mentioned the Arch of Titus?

Rome controlled Europe.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this.

Step one in facilitating a serious discussion is your sharing with us the list of references you read in performing your research.

 

[Penelope]

No one made them leave. but they had to pay temple tax and also tax to Rome. Rome crushed the civil war which the zealots and sacarii started. They were just made to be peaceful inhabitants . Alexandria Egypt had a lot of jews in the first century, and many never returned from Babylon when King Cyrus said they could. The diaspora began long before the first century.

It would be like the US and having a state like WI stopping shipping on Lake Mi. They were interrupting major trade routes.

 

[montelatici]

I am talking about what's engraved on it--artifacts from the Temple and slaves from Judea being relocated to Europe. What did you think I was referring to when I mentioned the Arch of Titus?

They are not slaves, it depicts Roman soldiers carrying the spoils into Rome with pillows protecting their shoulders. The amount of propaganda promulgated by you people is astounding.

"The menorah and the table of show bread carried by Roman soldiers are thought to represent the procession at the dedication of the arch. ..."

Arch of Titus

 

[louie888]

I am talking about what's engraved on it--artifacts from the Temple and slaves from Judea being relocated to Europe. What did you think I was referring to when I mentioned the Arch of Titus?

They are not slaves, it depicts Roman soldiers carrying the spoils into Rome with pillows protecting their shoulders. The amount of propaganda promulgated by you people is astounding.

"The menorah and the table of show bread carried by Roman soldiers are thought to represent the procession at the dedication of the arch. ..."

Arch of Titus

From what I have gathered, they did take some Jews to Rome and sold a some in Libya as well, but still, absolutely no evidence of any mass exile. Beyond that, the Romans did not even have the means to accomplish such a feat.

And it's not only the amount of propaganda promulgated by these people that is astounding, but also how willing they are to repeat it ad nauseum.

 

[Hollie]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

"I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once."

This coming from the most prolific spammer linking to web tabloids and people's personal blogs.


Chuckle.

 

[louie888]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

"I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once."

This coming from the most prolific spammer linking to web tabloids and people's personal blogs.


Chuckle.

So you can provide no proof for this event either. I'm not at all surprised, but thanks for making my point better than I could have.

 

[danielpalos]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

Judea is in the Middle East. Any more silly questions?

 

[Hollie]

I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once. I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this. From what I can tell, this event either never happened or there simply are no historians who have been able to show that this was a real event in history.

If any of you can provide proof that this event actually occurred, not only would your posts hold more weight, but also we could begin to discuss this issue from a factual standpoint instead of what we seem to have on every thread here where the hasbara crew simply assumes this as fact and then moves on to claim that what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians is what was done to them a couple 1000 of years ago.

If you want to chime in here, then please stay away form hasbara sites and post links only to credible historians.... no wikipedia, no jewish virtual library, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help.

"I hope we can have a serious discussion here for once."

This coming from the most prolific spammer linking to web tabloids and people's personal blogs.


Chuckle.

So you can provide no proof for this event either. I'm not at all surprised, but thanks for making my point better than I could have.

So you open another silly thread which you preface with statements such as "the hasbara crew" and expect anyone to take your nonsense seriously?

Chuckle.

Did it occur to you that this thread topic has nothing to do with the I/P conflict?

 

[usmbguest5318]

I suggest the following reference materials for individuals interested in the matter of Roman treatment of Jews:

• Roman Policy towards the Jews: Expulsions from the City of Rome during the First Century C.E.
• The Jews in Roman Imperial Legislation
  
  In this book, one finds myriad provisions that in their totality deny all manners of rights and opportunities to heretics, which included Jews. One also finds the following imperial edict:
  • Emperors Theodosius II and Valentinian III, July 9, 425
    Since it behooves that the religious populace shall not be depraved by any superstition, we order that the Manichaeans, all the heretics or schismatics and astrologers, and every sect hostile to the Catholics must be expelled from the very sight of the various cities.

• Socrates Scolasticus – Historia ecclesiastica -- In 412/414 violence reached such a crescendo that all Jews were expelled from Alexandria by the archbishop Cyril. Socrates' description of these events is as follows [the paragraphing is mine, and for the sake of readability, not Socrates.' He penned the account as one paragraph.]:

About this time the Jewish inhabitants were driven out of Alexandria by Cyril the Bishop on the following account. The Alexandrians are more delighted with tumult than any other people; and if they can find a pretext, they will break forth into the most intolerable excesses; nor is it scarcely possible to check their impetuosity until there has been much bloodshed. It happened on the present occasion that a disturbance arose among the populace, not from a cause of any serious importance, but out of an evil that has become inveterate in almost all cities, i.e. a fondness for public dancers. In consequence of the Jews being disengaged from business on the Sabbath, and spending their time, not in hearing the law, but in theatrical amusements, dancers usually collect great crowds on that day, and disorder is almost invariably produced. Although this was in some degree controlled by the governor of Alexandria, yet the Jews were continually factious; and there was added to their ordinary hatred of the Christians, rage against them because of the dancers.

When therefore Orestes the prefect was publishing an edict in the theatre for the regulation of the shows, some of the bishop's party were present to learn the nature of the orders about to be issued. Among these was Hierax, a teacher of the rudimentary branches of literature; one who was a very assiduous auditor of the bishop's sermons, and made himself conspicuous by his forward and noisy plaudits.

When the Jews observed this person in the theatre, they immediately cried out that he had come there for no other purpose than to excite sedition among the people. Now Orestes had long regarded with jealousy the growing power of the bishops, and their encroachments on the jurisdiction of the civil authorities. Believing therefore that Cyril wished to set spies over his proceedings, he ordered Hierax to be seized, and publicly subjected to torture in the theatre. Cyril, on being informed of this, sent for the principal Jews, and threatened them with the utmost severities unless they desisted from their molestation of the Christians.

These menaces, instead of suppressing their violence, only rendered the Jewish populace more furious, and led them to form conspiracies for the destruction of the Christians, one of which was of so desperate a character as to cause their entire expulsion from Alexandria. Having agreed that each one of them should wear a ring on his finger, made of the bark of a palm branch, for the sake of mutual recognition, they determined to attack the Christians on a certain night; and sending persons into the streets to raise an outcry that Alexander's church was on fire, they thus drew the Christians out in great anxiety and slew them readily distinguishing each other by their rings.

At daybreak the authors of this atrocity could not be concealed; and Cyril going to their synagogue (which is the name they give their house of prayer), attended by an immense body of people, took it away from them, and driving the Jews out of the city, permitted the multitude to plunder their goods.

Thus were the Jews, who had inhabited the city from the time of Alexander the Macedonian, expelled from it, stripped of all they possessed, and dispersed, some in one direction and some in another. One of them, a physician named Adamantius, fled to Atticus, bishop of Constantinople, and professing Christianity, afterwards returned to Alexandria and fixed his residence there. But Orestes the governor of Alexandria viewed these transactions with great indignation and was excessively annoyed that a city of such magnitude should have been suddenly bereft of so large a portion of its population; he therefore at once communicated the whole affair to the emperor. Cyril also wrote to him, describing the outrageous conduct of the Jews; and in the meanwhile sent persons to Orestes who should mediate concerning a reconciliation: for this the people had urged him to do, etc.​

• Acts of the Apostles, 18:12 -- "There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them."
• The Lives of the Twelve Caesars -- "[Claudius] banished from Rome all the Jews." It has been suggested that Claudius sought to banish only Jews who were not also Roman citizens. The historical record is not clear on whether that's so.
• The Expulsion of Jews from Rome under Tiberius -- Under Tiberius Palestine was governed by Roman procurators. Toward the Jews in Italy, Tiberius showed some intolerance. In 19 AD all the Jews were expelled from Rome according to Josephus (Antiquities., XVIII, iii, 5), from Italy according to Tacitus, and 4,000 Jewish freedmen were deported to Sardinia to reduce bands of brigands.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this.

Really? In light of the content I've shared in post 15, I find that hard to believe, but maybe you have and it was merely time not well spent. Effort and rigor seems what was missing from your use of time.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this.

Really? In light of the content I've shared in post 15, I find that hard to believe, but maybe you have and it was merely time not well spent. Effort and rigor seems what was missing from your use of time.

So, in your opinion Xelor, in light of these mass expulsions and the dispersion of Jews from Judea, could Jews have ended up in Eastern Europe?

 

[usmbguest5318]

I have been spending quite a bit of time researching this.

Really? In light of the content I've shared in post 15, I find that hard to believe, but maybe you have and it was merely time not well spent. Effort and rigor seems what was missing from your use of time.

So, in your opinion Xelor, in light of these mass expulsions and the dispersion of Jews from Judea, could Jews have ended up in Eastern Europe?

Jews could have ended up just about anywhere the technology of the time allowed. Many of them created communities in Western Europe. I don't know about their having done so in Eastern Europe.

 

[montelatici]

Josephus's estimate of 90,000 is almost certainly an exagerated figure. Most historians agree that only a few hundred, mostly the ringleaders of the revolt were brought to Rome to do jail time.

 

[danielpalos]

Why did the ancient Judeans, protest so much?