The Reality of Deportaions

[TheProgressivePatriot]

...There is more but ...

Citing original quotes is a wonderful advantage we have in the info-age. A quote that I'd have thought would have come in here (but I haven't seen yet) is this one:

“All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected, but in every place in this country are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country. The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers. That’s why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens. In the budget I will present to you, we will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.”​

It's from Jan. 4, 1995, Clinton's State of the Union Address from State of the Union 1995 (delivered version) < William Jefferson Clinton < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond .

...Bill Clinton from over 20 years ago is very relevant to the present day. I don't think that he was talking about anything like what Trump wants...

Hey, good policy is good policy, but if you don't like Bill Clinton in '95 we can hear Hillary since then:

1993 We do not want to do anything to encourage more illegal immigration into the country.
2006 Mexican government's policies are pushing migration north. If they've committed transgressions of whatever kind they should be obviously deported... ...secure our borders and technology personnel physical barriers if necessary we need to have tougher employer sanctions...
2015 Look I voted uh numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in... ...I voted for border security and some of it was a fence I don't think we ever called it a wall maybe in some places it wasn't a wall...​

Not made up quotes or like saying it's what Trump "wants" whether he actually said it or not. We can hear her on video saying these things along with Trump actually saying the same things at--

Sorry dude! There is no comparison. It's a false equivalency fallacy. Trump vs. Clinton: Immigration

Clinton proposed the deportation of criminals. Trump called for the deportation of all 11 M undocumented people.

Clinton pledged to reinstate DAPA DACA. and support the dreamers. Trump is currently saying that he will leave he dreamers alone for now, but he has flipped so many times on this they are still on edge

Clinton supported a path to citizenship Trump is not.

Clinton on the wall:

Although Clinton’s platform (link is external) also calls to "protect our borders and national security," she has mocked Trump’s idea for a border wall as "fantasy." (link is external) Trump and other commentators have hit Clinton over her 2006 Senate vote in favor of 700 miles of fencing (link is external) along the southern border, but, during a March primary debate, she pointed to those measures as proof that a wall would not be necessary.

 

[Theowl32]

While there have been way to many threads about Trump in general, it's interesting to not that there have been few if any about his plan to deport millions of Latinos and the implications of that . So, here we go!

On February 21, 2017, a month after Trumps first full day in office, the administration unveiled a major and unprecedented crackdown on undocumented people in this country.

Donald Trump’s DHS Says Immigration Authorities Can Deport Pretty Much Any Undocumented Person

“The Department will no longer exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement,” an official memo says. Donald Trump's DHS Says Immigration Authorities Can Deport Pretty Much Any Undocumented Person | The Huffington Post

What is behind it? In part it is obvious pandering to a bigoted and xenophobic base who he promised this to? But what does it mean for the rest of us and for the country? For the economy? Aside from the moral and political implications of this move, there are indications that it is not in the best economic interest of the country either. So in order to try to answer the question of motive, it is useful to take a closer look at who will benefit and who will be hurt, and in what ways.

First, to be clear, we are talking about mostly Latino people, and most of them are from Mexico. Trump has made it clear that he is targeting Mexicans although they only make up 44 % of all undocumented immigrants . Why?

About three-quarters (75%) of the nation's unauthorized immigrants are Latino. The majority of illegal immigrants (59%) are from Mexico. Significant regional sources of unauthorized immigrants include Asia (11%), Central America (11%), South America (7%), the Caribbean (4%) and the Middle East (less than 2%). Illegal immigrants constitute 4% of the nation's population. Approximately two-thirds have been in the U.S. for 10 years or fewer.[12]

( The math: 59% of 75% -all Latino undocumented immigrents = 44% of all undocumented immigrents)

And there is clearly an element of cruelty to the order:

The DHS memo "sends a message of fear through many of America's immigrant communities — not just the estimated 11.1 million unauthorized immigrants, but also their spouses, children, and other relatives living legally in the United States."

The Post concedes "deterrence is a fair goal," but only "if achieved by humane means."
"In this case, the administration's policies will break up families and harm people leading peaceable lives," the editors conclude. WashPost: 'Cruelty' in Trump Deportation Plan

Source for all quotes from this point until otherwise noted:

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia
Why do they come?

Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, argues that the US economy has a crucial need for migrant workers, and that the current debate must acknowledge this rather than just focus on enforcement.[13] Peter Andreas, Professor of Political Science and International Studies at Brown University, asserts that illegal immigration is spurred on by periods of high demand for labor.[14]

According to analyses by Zedillo and Andreas, greater demand for low-wage labor leads to higher illegal immigration. The numbers seem to support this analysis. Standard & Poor's estimated in April 2006 that, at that time, the U.S. was home to 11 million illegal immigrants. The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that the population of illegal immigrants grew from 1990 to a high of 11.9 million in 2006 plus another 1.1 million persons who are believed to be undercounted in the published estimates, and then dropped during the following recession

So these are people who are waiting in the wings sort of speaking for a time when their labor is needed in the US. You might say that they serve the same purpose as long term unemployed people who are citizens and just getting by until the job market expands.


Then what is the economic impact?

As consumers, illegal immigrants buy goods and services, which stimulates economic growth, while paying taxes and receiving minimal benefits.[19] Studies indicate they are discriminated against and work with unfair wages and harsh conditions, particularly in certain states.[20]

The non partisan Congressional Budget Office looked at it

CBO study

During 2007, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reviewed 29 reports published over 15 years on the impact of unauthorized immigrants on the budgets of state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:[20]

• 
  State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs;
• 
  The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions;
• 
  The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them, the impact is modest, and most do not qualify for them;
• 
  Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs of necessities.

But Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, who we quoted above asserts that illegal immigrants are only a drain on
government services when they are incapable of paying taxes; and that this incapacity is the result of restrictive federal policies that require proof of citizenship.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative organization also weighed in with an attempt to spin the debate against immigrants:

Heritage Foundation Study

In 2013, think tank The Heritage Foundation released a study concluding that as of 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household.[21] Many legislators, researchers and policy professionals from both sides of the immigration debate challenged the methodology of the 2013 Heritage Foundation study and its conclusions,[22]HYPERLINK \l "[23] indicating that the Heritage Foundation's estimated deficit figure is grossly inflated and such a deficit may not even exist. [24]

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia

But non of this is to say that they get a free ride:

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy Study

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]
And despite the aforementioned negative impacts, there is a significant upside:

Consumer demand

Economic activity produced by illegal immigrant spending employs about 5% of the total US workforce. Illegal immigrants occupy over 3 million dwellings, or just under 4% of the total number of homes in the US. UCLA research indicates immigrants produce $150 billion of economic activity equivalent to spending stimulus every year. The advantages of illegal migration tend mostly to be on the side of the employer. An employer will benefit from the illegal status of a migrant who is desperate for work and therefore prepared to accept poor pay, usually below local norms. Hiring an illegal worker also brings the employer the advantage of paying less in the way of welfare contributions and other non-wage costs.[26]

Nearly every dollar earned by illegal immigrants is spent immediately, and the average wage for US citizens is $10.25/hour with an average of 34 hours per week. This means that approximately 8 million US jobs are dependent upon economic activity produced by illegal immigrant activities within the US.[27]HYPERLINK \l "[28]HYPERLINK \l "[29]

In addition:

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[20] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[30] In addition, they spend millions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs.

Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file"—an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to illegal workers who will never claim their benefits.

That brings us to the question....what is the coast or negative impact of removing large numbers of undocumented immigrants

NPR reported in March 2006 that when the wages of lower-skilled workers go down, the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. The economic impact of illegal immigration is far smaller than other trends in the economy, such as the increasing use of automation in manufacturing or the growth in global trade. Those two factors have a much bigger impact on wages, prices and the health of the U.S. economy. But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.[36]

Dr. David Jaeger from Center for American Progress estimated that if all illegal workers were removed from the workforce, a number of industries would face substantial shortages of workers, and Americans would have to be induced into the labor pool or provided incentives to take jobs far below their current education and skill levels.[37\l "For this phenomenon to occur to a meaningful extent, substantial wage escalation would likely be necessary, thus eroding competitiveness in global markets

Other factors to consider:

National Public Radio (NPR) reported in March 2006 that: "...overall, illegal immigrants don't have a big impact on U.S. wage rates. The most respected recent studies show that most Americans would notice little difference in their paychecks if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared from the United States.

Estimates indicate that about 4% of the school-age population is made up of children who are illegal immigrants.[43] Many require remedial assistance in language skills, which increases costs to the public schools. During April 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Local school districts are estimated to educate 1.8 million illegal children. At an average annual cost of $7,500 (averages vary by jurisdiction) per student, the cost of providing education to these children is about $11.2 billion."

Jessica M. Vaughan, Director of Policy Studies at Center for Immigration Studies reported in March 2012 that the Obama administration is trying to move away from using detention centers that are currently housing thousands of illegal immigrants each day. These facilities are very costly.
With Trump, those costs will only go up

Reuters reported that illegal immigrants, as well as legal immigrants in the country less than five years, generally are not eligible for Medicaid. However, they can get Medicaid coverage for health emergencies if they are in a category of people otherwise eligible, such as children, pregnant women, families with dependent children, elderly or disabled individuals, and meet other requirements. The cost of this emergency care was less than 1% of Medicaid costs in North Carolina from 2001–2004 and the majority was for childbirth and related complications.[49] USA Today reported that "Illegal immigrants can get emergency care through Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor and people with disabilities. But they can't get non-emergency care unless they pay. They are ineligible for most other public benefits."[5

Potential economic impact of amnesty: Amnesty refers to granting illegal immigrants additional rights, which grants access to more government services while requiring higher taxes. The Heritage Foundation reported in 2013: "If enacted, amnesty would be implemented in phases. During the first or interim phase (which is likely to last 13 years), unlawful immigrants would be given lawful status but would be denied access to means-tested welfare and Obamacare. Most analysts assume that roughly half of unlawful immigrants work “off the books” and therefore do not pay income or FICA taxes. During the interim phase, these “off the books” workers would have a strong incentive to move to “on the books” employment. In addition, their wages would likely go up as they sought jobs in a more open environment

Cost benefit analysis

Editorialist Robert Samuelson points out that poor immigrants strain public services such as local schools and health care. He points out that "from 2000 to 2006, 41 percent of the increase in people without health insurance occurred among Hispanics", although he makes clear that these facts are true of legal as well as illegal immigrants.[61]

Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services.
National Public Radio (NPR) wrote in 2006: "Supporters of a crackdown argue that the U.S. economy would benefit if illegal immigrants were to leave, because U.S. employers would be forced to raise wages to attract American workers. Critics of this approach say the loss of illegal immigrants would stall the U.S. economy, saying illegal workers do many jobs few native-born Americans will do."[36]

On balance, it appears that the benefits outweigh the costs.

Here is another source that supports that view:

In this Council Special Report, Professor Gordon H. Hanson of the University of California, San Diego approaches immigration through the lens of economics. The results are surprising. By focusing on the economic costs and benefits of legal and illegal immigration, Professor Hanson concludes that stemming illegal immigration would likely lead to a net drain on the U.S. economy—a finding that calls into question many of the proposals to increase funding for border protection. The Economic Logic of Illegal Immigration

Holy shit

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

While there have been way to many threads about Trump in general, it's interesting to not that there have been few if any about his plan to deport millions of Latinos and the implications of that . So, here we go!

On February 21, 2017, a month after Trumps first full day in office, the administration unveiled a major and unprecedented crackdown on undocumented people in this country.

Donald Trump’s DHS Says Immigration Authorities Can Deport Pretty Much Any Undocumented Person

“The Department will no longer exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement,” an official memo says. Donald Trump's DHS Says Immigration Authorities Can Deport Pretty Much Any Undocumented Person | The Huffington Post

What is behind it? In part it is obvious pandering to a bigoted and xenophobic base who he promised this to? But what does it mean for the rest of us and for the country? For the economy? Aside from the moral and political implications of this move, there are indications that it is not in the best economic interest of the country either. So in order to try to answer the question of motive, it is useful to take a closer look at who will benefit and who will be hurt, and in what ways.

First, to be clear, we are talking about mostly Latino people, and most of them are from Mexico. Trump has made it clear that he is targeting Mexicans although they only make up 44 % of all undocumented immigrants . Why?

About three-quarters (75%) of the nation's unauthorized immigrants are Latino. The majority of illegal immigrants (59%) are from Mexico. Significant regional sources of unauthorized immigrants include Asia (11%), Central America (11%), South America (7%), the Caribbean (4%) and the Middle East (less than 2%). Illegal immigrants constitute 4% of the nation's population. Approximately two-thirds have been in the U.S. for 10 years or fewer.[12]

( The math: 59% of 75% -all Latino undocumented immigrents = 44% of all undocumented immigrents)

And there is clearly an element of cruelty to the order:

The DHS memo "sends a message of fear through many of America's immigrant communities — not just the estimated 11.1 million unauthorized immigrants, but also their spouses, children, and other relatives living legally in the United States."

The Post concedes "deterrence is a fair goal," but only "if achieved by humane means."
"In this case, the administration's policies will break up families and harm people leading peaceable lives," the editors conclude. WashPost: 'Cruelty' in Trump Deportation Plan

Source for all quotes from this point until otherwise noted:

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia
Why do they come?

Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, argues that the US economy has a crucial need for migrant workers, and that the current debate must acknowledge this rather than just focus on enforcement.[13] Peter Andreas, Professor of Political Science and International Studies at Brown University, asserts that illegal immigration is spurred on by periods of high demand for labor.[14]

According to analyses by Zedillo and Andreas, greater demand for low-wage labor leads to higher illegal immigration. The numbers seem to support this analysis. Standard & Poor's estimated in April 2006 that, at that time, the U.S. was home to 11 million illegal immigrants. The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that the population of illegal immigrants grew from 1990 to a high of 11.9 million in 2006 plus another 1.1 million persons who are believed to be undercounted in the published estimates, and then dropped during the following recession

So these are people who are waiting in the wings sort of speaking for a time when their labor is needed in the US. You might say that they serve the same purpose as long term unemployed people who are citizens and just getting by until the job market expands.


Then what is the economic impact?

As consumers, illegal immigrants buy goods and services, which stimulates economic growth, while paying taxes and receiving minimal benefits.[19] Studies indicate they are discriminated against and work with unfair wages and harsh conditions, particularly in certain states.[20]

The non partisan Congressional Budget Office looked at it

CBO study

During 2007, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reviewed 29 reports published over 15 years on the impact of unauthorized immigrants on the budgets of state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:[20]

• 
  State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs;
• 
  The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions;
• 
  The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them, the impact is modest, and most do not qualify for them;
• 
  Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs of necessities.

But Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, who we quoted above asserts that illegal immigrants are only a drain on
government services when they are incapable of paying taxes; and that this incapacity is the result of restrictive federal policies that require proof of citizenship.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative organization also weighed in with an attempt to spin the debate against immigrants:

Heritage Foundation Study

In 2013, think tank The Heritage Foundation released a study concluding that as of 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household.[21] Many legislators, researchers and policy professionals from both sides of the immigration debate challenged the methodology of the 2013 Heritage Foundation study and its conclusions,[22]HYPERLINK \l "[23] indicating that the Heritage Foundation's estimated deficit figure is grossly inflated and such a deficit may not even exist. [24]

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia

But non of this is to say that they get a free ride:

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy Study

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]
And despite the aforementioned negative impacts, there is a significant upside:

Consumer demand

Economic activity produced by illegal immigrant spending employs about 5% of the total US workforce. Illegal immigrants occupy over 3 million dwellings, or just under 4% of the total number of homes in the US. UCLA research indicates immigrants produce $150 billion of economic activity equivalent to spending stimulus every year. The advantages of illegal migration tend mostly to be on the side of the employer. An employer will benefit from the illegal status of a migrant who is desperate for work and therefore prepared to accept poor pay, usually below local norms. Hiring an illegal worker also brings the employer the advantage of paying less in the way of welfare contributions and other non-wage costs.[26]

Nearly every dollar earned by illegal immigrants is spent immediately, and the average wage for US citizens is $10.25/hour with an average of 34 hours per week. This means that approximately 8 million US jobs are dependent upon economic activity produced by illegal immigrant activities within the US.[27]HYPERLINK \l "[28]HYPERLINK \l "[29]

In addition:

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[20] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[30] In addition, they spend millions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs.

Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file"—an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to illegal workers who will never claim their benefits.

That brings us to the question....what is the coast or negative impact of removing large numbers of undocumented immigrants

NPR reported in March 2006 that when the wages of lower-skilled workers go down, the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. The economic impact of illegal immigration is far smaller than other trends in the economy, such as the increasing use of automation in manufacturing or the growth in global trade. Those two factors have a much bigger impact on wages, prices and the health of the U.S. economy. But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.[36]

Dr. David Jaeger from Center for American Progress estimated that if all illegal workers were removed from the workforce, a number of industries would face substantial shortages of workers, and Americans would have to be induced into the labor pool or provided incentives to take jobs far below their current education and skill levels.[37\l "For this phenomenon to occur to a meaningful extent, substantial wage escalation would likely be necessary, thus eroding competitiveness in global markets

Other factors to consider:

National Public Radio (NPR) reported in March 2006 that: "...overall, illegal immigrants don't have a big impact on U.S. wage rates. The most respected recent studies show that most Americans would notice little difference in their paychecks if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared from the United States.

Estimates indicate that about 4% of the school-age population is made up of children who are illegal immigrants.[43] Many require remedial assistance in language skills, which increases costs to the public schools. During April 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Local school districts are estimated to educate 1.8 million illegal children. At an average annual cost of $7,500 (averages vary by jurisdiction) per student, the cost of providing education to these children is about $11.2 billion."

Jessica M. Vaughan, Director of Policy Studies at Center for Immigration Studies reported in March 2012 that the Obama administration is trying to move away from using detention centers that are currently housing thousands of illegal immigrants each day. These facilities are very costly.
With Trump, those costs will only go up

Reuters reported that illegal immigrants, as well as legal immigrants in the country less than five years, generally are not eligible for Medicaid. However, they can get Medicaid coverage for health emergencies if they are in a category of people otherwise eligible, such as children, pregnant women, families with dependent children, elderly or disabled individuals, and meet other requirements. The cost of this emergency care was less than 1% of Medicaid costs in North Carolina from 2001–2004 and the majority was for childbirth and related complications.[49] USA Today reported that "Illegal immigrants can get emergency care through Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor and people with disabilities. But they can't get non-emergency care unless they pay. They are ineligible for most other public benefits."[5

Potential economic impact of amnesty: Amnesty refers to granting illegal immigrants additional rights, which grants access to more government services while requiring higher taxes. The Heritage Foundation reported in 2013: "If enacted, amnesty would be implemented in phases. During the first or interim phase (which is likely to last 13 years), unlawful immigrants would be given lawful status but would be denied access to means-tested welfare and Obamacare. Most analysts assume that roughly half of unlawful immigrants work “off the books” and therefore do not pay income or FICA taxes. During the interim phase, these “off the books” workers would have a strong incentive to move to “on the books” employment. In addition, their wages would likely go up as they sought jobs in a more open environment

Cost benefit analysis

Editorialist Robert Samuelson points out that poor immigrants strain public services such as local schools and health care. He points out that "from 2000 to 2006, 41 percent of the increase in people without health insurance occurred among Hispanics", although he makes clear that these facts are true of legal as well as illegal immigrants.[61]

Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services.
National Public Radio (NPR) wrote in 2006: "Supporters of a crackdown argue that the U.S. economy would benefit if illegal immigrants were to leave, because U.S. employers would be forced to raise wages to attract American workers. Critics of this approach say the loss of illegal immigrants would stall the U.S. economy, saying illegal workers do many jobs few native-born Americans will do."[36]

On balance, it appears that the benefits outweigh the costs.

Here is another source that supports that view:

In this Council Special Report, Professor Gordon H. Hanson of the University of California, San Diego approaches immigration through the lens of economics. The results are surprising. By focusing on the economic costs and benefits of legal and illegal immigration, Professor Hanson concludes that stemming illegal immigration would likely lead to a net drain on the U.S. economy—a finding that calls into question many of the proposals to increase funding for border protection. The Economic Logic of Illegal Immigration

Holy shit

Unholy shit. Or just shit

 

[expat_panama]

...Clinton supported a path to citizenship Trump is not...

It sounds like you're meeting me half way --Neat!!!

So what we got here is that this thread originally began with the idea that Trump & deporting was bad but when we also got into the fact that for decades both Mr. and Mrs. Clinton liked deporting just as much as Trump does now the subject suddenly changed to what, ah-- "path to citizenship". This is great because at first you were saying that both Trump and deporting was bad and now you're saying that deporting is fine but Trump is still bad.

We now agree on 'deporting'. I can work with that.

Cheers!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

...Clinton supported a path to citizenship Trump is not...

It sounds like you're meeting me half way --Neat!!!

So what we got here is that this thread originally began with the idea that Trump & deporting was bad but when we also got into the fact that for decades both Mr. and Mrs. Clinton liked deporting just as much as Trump does now the subject suddenly changed to what, ah-- "path to citizenship". This is great because at first you were saying that both Trump and deporting was bad and now you're saying that deporting is fine but Trump is still bad.

We now agree on 'deporting'. I can work with that.

Cheers!

DO NOT attribute statements and arguments that I did not make to me and then shoot them down and claim victory. That is a straw man type of logical fallacy and it clearly shows your desperation. I never said that all deportation is bad or unjust. I documented the differences between Clinton and Trump and they are significant. You're trying to avoid that reality by accusing me of changing the subject. A path to citizenship and all aspects of immigration are part of the same subject. Now, tell us again how their policies and approaches to immigration are the same and how I'm being hypocritical for supporting Clinton and opposing Trump. Go ahead, give it your best shot.

 

[80zephyr]

As consumers, illegal immigrants buy goods and services, which stimulates economic growth, while paying taxes and receiving minimal benefits.

Here in Chicago, we spend about $13,500 per year for every illegal alien student in our public schools.
How much in taxes do the parents pay toward that tab?

The OP acknowledged that the undocumented may have a negative impact on the cost of education. However, if you read it in it's entirety with the comprehension of a first grader, you would know that is only one small aspect of the larger picture. On balance, immigrants are responsible for a net gain to the overall economic picture and are not a drain on local governments. You either are wearing blinders or are being deliberately dishonest.

There is a problem in your logic. If you want, I can give you links to challenge your assertion that these immigrants are a benefit. And to what end? You will believe what you want, and I'll still believe what I want.

So, whats the truth? Consider this. In this country, poor American citizens cost this country much more than they produce. Can you show me even one study that shows our own poor as being an economic benefit?

So, what makes you think that any study that claims the poor from another country would benefit our economy, when our own poor do not, would be accurate?

Mark

Please do. Let's see what you've got

Easy peasy.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Personal logic should be your guide. But, I can do links.

Mark

Yes of course. The Heritage Foundation. Very objective and unbiased!!

Like I said, I can do links. But, enough about that. So, a question. If our own poor cost us money, why is it you think a poor immigrant wouldn't?

Mark

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The OP acknowledged that the undocumented may have a negative impact on the cost of education. However, if you read it in it's entirety with the comprehension of a first grader, you would know that is only one small aspect of the larger picture. On balance, immigrants are responsible for a net gain to the overall economic picture and are not a drain on local governments. You either are wearing blinders or are being deliberately dishonest.

There is a problem in your logic. If you want, I can give you links to challenge your assertion that these immigrants are a benefit. And to what end? You will believe what you want, and I'll still believe what I want.

So, whats the truth? Consider this. In this country, poor American citizens cost this country much more than they produce. Can you show me even one study that shows our own poor as being an economic benefit?

So, what makes you think that any study that claims the poor from another country would benefit our economy, when our own poor do not, would be accurate?

Mark

Please do. Let's see what you've got

Easy peasy.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Personal logic should be your guide. But, I can do links.

Mark

Yes of course. The Heritage Foundation. Very objective and unbiased!!

Like I said, I can do links. But, enough about that. So, a question. If our own poor cost us money, why is it you think a poor immigrant wouldn't?

Mark

Another logical fallacy in the form of a false equivalency. All immigrants in fact most immigrants , are not poor or unproductive.

In addition , our poor are eligible for many services and benefits that immigrants are not able to access.

Keep trying dude



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[80zephyr]

There is a problem in your logic. If you want, I can give you links to challenge your assertion that these immigrants are a benefit. And to what end? You will believe what you want, and I'll still believe what I want.

So, whats the truth? Consider this. In this country, poor American citizens cost this country much more than they produce. Can you show me even one study that shows our own poor as being an economic benefit?

So, what makes you think that any study that claims the poor from another country would benefit our economy, when our own poor do not, would be accurate?

Mark

Please do. Let's see what you've got

Easy peasy.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Personal logic should be your guide. But, I can do links.

Mark

Yes of course. The Heritage Foundation. Very objective and unbiased!!

Like I said, I can do links. But, enough about that. So, a question. If our own poor cost us money, why is it you think a poor immigrant wouldn't?

Mark

Another logical fallacy in the form of a false equivalency. All immigrants in fact most immigrants , are not poor or unproductive.

In addition , our poor are eligible for many services and benefits that immigrants are not able to access.

Keep trying dude



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. I'm finished. You will believe what you want to, links and logic not withstanding.

Mark

 

[RodISHI]

It will be a big mistake if any amnesty program is done again. If there are any industries that rely on "their illegal immigrants" it will be up to them to seek employees that are here legally when they lose their illegals. If they did not respect the law enough to abide in it when they came in they have no respect for the laws of this land. If their parents brought them here when they were children and now it is a problem for them they will have to take that up with their parents.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

The reality is if you're here illegally, you need to get the fuck out.

 

[Godboy]

There is a problem in your logic. If you want, I can give you links to challenge your assertion that these immigrants are a benefit. And to what end? You will believe what you want, and I'll still believe what I want.

So, whats the truth? Consider this. In this country, poor American citizens cost this country much more than they produce. Can you show me even one study that shows our own poor as being an economic benefit?

So, what makes you think that any study that claims the poor from another country would benefit our economy, when our own poor do not, would be accurate?

Mark

Please do. Let's see what you've got

Easy peasy.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Personal logic should be your guide. But, I can do links.

Mark

Yes of course. The Heritage Foundation. Very objective and unbiased!!

Like I said, I can do links. But, enough about that. So, a question. If our own poor cost us money, why is it you think a poor immigrant wouldn't?

Mark

Another logical fallacy in the form of a false equivalency. All immigrants in fact most immigrants , are not poor or unproductive.

In addition , our poor are eligible for many services and benefits that immigrants are not able to access.

Keep trying dude



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The vast majority of illegal aliens are in fact poor. Afterall, rich Mexicans wouldnt have much reason to sneak across our border, would they? The only fallacy around here is your poorly constructed world view.

 

[dannyboys]

There is a problem in your logic. If you want, I can give you links to challenge your assertion that these immigrants are a benefit. And to what end? You will believe what you want, and I'll still believe what I want.

So, whats the truth? Consider this. In this country, poor American citizens cost this country much more than they produce. Can you show me even one study that shows our own poor as being an economic benefit?

So, what makes you think that any study that claims the poor from another country would benefit our economy, when our own poor do not, would be accurate?

Mark

Please do. Let's see what you've got

Easy peasy.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Personal logic should be your guide. But, I can do links.

Mark

Yes of course. The Heritage Foundation. Very objective and unbiased!!

Like I said, I can do links. But, enough about that. So, a question. If our own poor cost us money, why is it you think a poor immigrant wouldn't?

Mark

Another logical fallacy in the form of a false equivalency. All immigrants in fact most immigrants , are not poor or unproductive.

In addition , our poor are eligible for many services and benefits that immigrants are not able to access.

Keep trying dude



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You LIB assholes ALWAYS forget to use the word "illegal" when you post your bullshit lies.
"Illegals" don't pay a fucking dime in Federal income tax.
They get paid cash under the table for one thing. And the amount they make even IF they have stolen someone else's ID doesn't get them into the Federal tax payable category.
Fucking grow up!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The reality is if you're here illegally, you need to get the fuck out.

Espaillat: 'Are we a country of deportation or a country of aspirations?' - CNNPolitics.com

It sent a chilling effect to anybody who doesn't have any documents," the New York Democrat said. "How do you move around? How do you go to school? How do you go to a store?"

Those days of living in fear of being deported shape his view of how children of undocumented parents must be processing President Donald Trump's immigration proposals, Espaillat said.

 

[Correll]

The reality is if you're here illegally, you need to get the fuck out.

Espaillat: 'Are we a country of deportation or a country of aspirations?' - CNNPolitics.com

It sent a chilling effect to anybody who doesn't have any documents," the New York Democrat said. "How do you move around? How do you go to school? How do you go to a store?"

Those days of living in fear of being deported shape his view of how children of undocumented parents must be processing President Donald Trump's immigration proposals, Espaillat said.

So go home where you can feel secure.

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME.

 

[dannyboys]

The reality is if you're here illegally, you need to get the fuck out.

Espaillat: 'Are we a country of deportation or a country of aspirations?' - CNNPolitics.com

It sent a chilling effect to anybody who doesn't have any documents," the New York Democrat said. "How do you move around? How do you go to school? How do you go to a store?"

Those days of living in fear of being deported shape his view of how children of undocumented parents must be processing President Donald Trump's immigration proposals, Espaillat said.

So how many ILLEGALS!!!!! do you have living in YOUR apartment???
YA FUCKING RIGHT!!!!!
ANYONE who supports having illegals who have committed a felony should be the first LIB assholes to step up and pay for all the government services the illegals are soaking up.

 

[featherlite]

The reality is if you're here illegally, you need to get the fuck out.

Espaillat: 'Are we a country of deportation or a country of aspirations?' - CNNPolitics.com

It sent a chilling effect to anybody who doesn't have any documents," the New York Democrat said. "How do you move around? How do you go to school? How do you go to a store?"

Those days of living in fear of being deported shape his view of how children of undocumented parents must be processing President Donald Trump's immigration proposals, Espaillat said.

Do these people honestly NOT know they are breaking laws? Are most of them actively trying to obtain legal status? In the past I've always thought that was the fair thing to do. Now I think most were staying illegal because well, they could.

"How do you move around?" lol the same way a person moves around if they break into someone's house...very carefully.

I'm not "on board" with Trump and his wall building, but its not bigotry to stop illegal immigration or deport illegals at this point.. sheesh.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Jesus fucking Christ!! More stupidity and cruelty!! Have they thought what this will do to the children?? Have they thought how much it will cost to house them. Fucking stupid bastards!!

Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at U.S.-Mexico border

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" while until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.

Currently, families contesting deportation or applying for asylum are generally released from detention quickly and allowed to remain in the United States until their cases are resolved. A federal appeals court ruling bars prolonged child detention

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jesus fucking Christ!! More stupidity and cruelty!! Have they thought what this will do to the children?? Have they thought how much it will cost to house them. Fucking stupid bastards!!

Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at U.S.-Mexico border

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" while until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.

Currently, families contesting deportation or applying for asylum are generally released from detention quickly and allowed to remain in the United States until their cases are resolved. A federal appeals court ruling bars prolonged child detention

.

Have they thought what this will do to the children??

Illegals with children should plan their trips back home now.

 

[Correll]

Jesus fucking Christ!! More stupidity and cruelty!! Have they thought what this will do to the children?? Have they thought how much it will cost to house them. Fucking stupid bastards!!

Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at U.S.-Mexico border

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" while until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.

Currently, families contesting deportation or applying for asylum are generally released from detention quickly and allowed to remain in the United States until their cases are resolved. A federal appeals court ruling bars prolonged child detention

.

So, you want to release illegal aliens on to the streets and ask them to come back to court for a hearing on whether they can stay in the country?