The REAL truth about the Town Hall Activist

[Skull Pilot]

Which bill? There are several. All are online as far as I know. HR 3200 is the one most often quoted. If we get bogged down on "Death Panels" and "Forced Abortions" and other retarded nonsense from people who obviously haven't read the bill, or they read it and don't understand it, we aren't advancing the debate in an honest manner.

that's the one for which I've been constantly posting links

and i have never mentioned either of those red herrings.

I've asked very simple questions and no one has answered me.

Do you want to answer?

How can the supporters of the bill say we get to keep what we have if we like it when the language of the bill makes it impossible to keep what we have?



So again, I can't keep what I have if it changes at all even if i am OK with those changes.

And did you notice how the bill is retroactive allowing no changes in policies 26 days before it goes into effect?

And what about people with insurance covered under ERISA guidelines?

Their insurance will be eliminated 5 years in and they'll have to find something else.

And here's my favorite part

TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
11 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
12 (a) IN GENERAL.—Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the
13 Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at
14 the end the following new part:
15 ‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES
‘‘SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE
COVERAGE.
16 ‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
17 Health Care Coverage
‘‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
18 ‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—

1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in2
come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
5 ‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
6 ‘‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
7 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed
8 under subsection (a) with respect to any tax9
payer for any taxable year shall not exceed the
10 applicable national average premium for such
11 taxable ye

ar

OK so not only can you not really keep what you have, if you do not buy a government approved "acceptable" policy you will be penalized with an additional tax.

So tell me how does this bill give me more choice as the president and his sycophants are saying?

I already answered this for you. But you don't want to hear the answer. I can't force you to use your mind. It's your choice.

refresh my memory because i certainly don't remember you giving me an answer

 

[OneWorld]

See that's where you're wrong. Dimmies shout sown speakers all the time and I don't give a rat's ass. It's the dims that are all outraged that the repudlicans are taking a page out of dimmy handbook.

Answer the question: Is there a differnece between groups creating protests around illegal wars and killing of innocent people, and the orchestrated efforts to halt debate on a bill? Especially if those orchestrated efforts revolve around LIES.

Is there a difference?

I agree and you are one of those partisans. Or can only those you label as right wing be partisan?

No, I am not. I am likely more critical of this bill than you, but you wouldn't know that. The problem is, I don't just hate on things because they come from the left or right. My whole life (including my education) is based on using my own mind and forming my own conclusions. My lifestyle is FAR from main stream, and that reflects everything I do in my life.

You're right, some people are roughing up protesters. and I have seen no video of anyone protesting the bill do anything but shout.

If they're organized so what? What does ACORN do, they organize protests/

What was Obama's job before? Community organizer.

So only dims are allowed to organize?

This is not community organizing. Do you know what that means even?

I see exactly what's going on. Our so called representatives are not being forthcoming about this bill.

Maybe so... but how are we going to know that? Watch some of the video and be honest with yourself. How can you even know what these people are saying if they are just being shouted over?

Additionalyl the things they are shouting are out right lies. I would be 100% behind dem, repub, independent if they were there upset because of something legitimately in a bill they were against. That is the honest truth.

 

[Skull Pilot]

See that's where you're wrong. Dimmies shout sown speakers all the time and I don't give a rat's ass. It's the dims that are all outraged that the repudlicans are taking a page out of dimmy handbook.

Answer the question: Is there a differnece between groups creating protests around illegal wars and killing of innocent people, and the orchestrated efforts to halt debate on a bill? Especially if those orchestrated efforts revolve around LIES.

Is there a difference?

You don't know why all those people are protesting. Sure some are misinformed but so what? they have a right to be stupid.

many people ask relevant questions and get no answers.

I agree and you are one of those partisans. Or can only those you label as right wing be partisan?

No, I am not. I am likely more critical of this bill than you, but you wouldn't know that. The problem is, I don't just hate on things because they come from the left or right. My whole life (including my education) is based on using my own mind and forming my own conclusions. My lifestyle is FAR from main stream, and that reflects everything I do in my life.

There it is a lefty accusing everyone who doesn't agree with him of being a hater.

And yet when i quote language from the bill, you have no answer but the same crap Obama is spewing.

You're right, some people are roughing up protesters. and I have seen no video of anyone protesting the bill do anything but shout.

If they're organized so what? What does ACORN do, they organize protests/

What was Obama's job before? Community organizer.

So only dims are allowed to organize?

This is not community organizing. Do you know what that means even?

So when ACORN organizes people to go to a persons home and shout obscenities, it's not community organizing?

Hmph who knew?

I see exactly what's going on. Our so called representatives are not being forthcoming about this bill.

Maybe so... but how are we going to know that? Watch some of the video and be honest with yourself. How can you even know what these people are saying if they are just being shouted over?

Additionalyl the things they are shouting are out right lies. I would be 100% behind dem, repub, independent if they were there upset because of something legitimately in a bill they were against. That is the honest truth.

Our reps have the bully pulpit and the president has it to the nth degree but none of them use it to set the record straight do they?

If a few people shouting can prevent them from addressing the issue, they ain't very good at their jobs are they?

 

[jreeves]

A Panel that meets with people about end of life decisions, what would that be called? End of life aka death...

The private insurance companies have this that exist today.

There is no panel in the Obama plan for God's sake. God, read it for yourself. I have read it several times. The only thing that exist is a provision for Medicare to counsel you about your end of life decisions (which you make) IF you want them to. That's it.

Would you like to concede that you are a mindless drone yet, just regurgitating Republican talking point lies?

You said it yourself the panel counsels on death decisions, that would be a death panel. Thank you for conceding the point.

 

[jreeves]

I really don't know what you are referring to, exercising free speech?

BTW could you provide the link, that shows recess rally is funded by the health care industry? Other than Maddow or other leftist?

I don't want to be rude, but are you playing dumb on purpose?

I will repeat one more time and spell it out slowly. How these republican groups are functioning:
Telling lies. Spreading talking point lies. Posting only democratic town hall meetings to their websites. Sending representatives to these meetings that are lying about their identities and disrupting Q&A. Bussing people into these meetings.

And no I won't because you can look it up if you care to know the truth. I really don't think you have an honest desire to do so though. You just want to confirm your belief over and over.

Telling lies, yet you have not shown one lie told.
Democrat only....???
From the website in the Maddow report....
Maryland Recess Rally : RECESS RALLY :: Nationwide Rally against Socialized Medicine
Representative Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. (D – 01)
102 Turpins Lane
Centreville, MD 21617
Voice: 443-262-9136
FAX: 443-262-9713

—

Representative C. A. Dutch Ruppersberger (D – 02)
75 West Padonia Road, Suite 200
Timonium, MD 21093
Voice: 410-628-2701
FAX: 410-628-2708

—

Representative John Sarbanes (D – 03)
600 Baltimore Avenue, Suite 303
Towson, MD 21204
Voice: 410-832-8890
FAX: 410-832-8898

Arundel Center, Suite 349
44 Calvert Street
Annapolis, MD 21401
Voice: 410-295-1679
FAX: 410-295-1682

—

Representative Donna Edwards (D – 04)
8730 Georgia Avenue, suite 209
Silver Spring, MD 20910
Voice: 301-562-7960
FAX: 301-562-7964

5001 Silver Hill Road, Suite 106
Suitland, MD 10746
Voice: 301-516-7601
FAX: 301-516-7608

—

Representative Steny Hoyer (D – 05)
401 Post Office Road, Suite 202
Waldorf, MD 20602
Voice: 301-843-1577
FAX: 301-843-1331

U.S. District Courthouse, Suite 310
6500 Cherrywood Lane
Greenbelt, MD 20770
Voice: 301-474-0119
FAX: 301-474-4697

—

Representative Roscoe Bartlett (R – 06)
11377 Robinwood Drive, Suite F
Hagerstown, MD 21742
Voice: 301-797-6043
FAX: 301-797-2385

1 Frederick Street, Suite 2
Cumberland, MD 21502
Voice: 301-724-3105
FAX: 301-724-3538

15 East Main Street, Suite 110
Westminster, MD 21157-5000
Voice: 410-857-1115
FAX: 410-857-3648

7360 Guilford Drive, Suite 101
Frederick, MD 21704
Voice: 301-694-3030
FAX: 301-694-6674

—

Representative Elijah E. Cummings (D – 07)
Ellicott Mills Post Office, Room 102
8267 Main Street
Ellicott City, MD 21043-8267
Voice: 410-465-8259
FAX: 410-465-8740

754 Frederick Road
Catonsville, MD 21228-4504
Voice: 410-719-8777
FAX: 410-455-0110

1010 Park Avenue, Suite 105
Baltimore, MD 21201
Voice: 410-685-9199
FAX: 410-685-9399

—

Representative Chris Van Hollen, Jr. (D – 08)
51 Monroe Street, Suite 507
Rockville, MD 20850
Voice: 301-424-3501
FAX: 301-424-5992

6475 New Hampshire Avenue, Suite C-201
Hyattsville, MD 20783
Voice: 301-891-6982
FAX: 301-891-6985


I guess that R is for Democrat huh?
Now who is telling lies?

 

[DiveCon]

Some of us have been informed about the connection-between these outburts and people who have something to lose if this legislation passes (private healthcare facilities, private insurance companies, etc...). It may have been from the news that is considered liberal. But after the ranting was over, we decided to do our own research. Here are some examples:

1. If you go to the Conservatives for Patients' Rights and scroll to the very bottom, you find the fine print. "About Us"- When you click on it, you discover that Richard Scott is the founder of this movement. And he has a shady past in connection to Columbia, HCA, Tri-Star, or whatever they're calling it this year....dealing with Medicare Billing. He has a lot to lose.

2. Dick Armey of Freedomworks-economist and former U.S. HOR republican. He now works for DLA Piper, who received $830,000 from Medicines Co. this year, to lobby against healthcare reform. He and they have a lot to lose.
(Lobbying Spending Database-Medicines Co, 2009 | OpenSecrets

3. Americans for Prosperity-has launched Patients United Now. It is partially funded by Koch Industries. Oil, gas......energy. Need I say more about that?

Now this is barely scratching the surface. There is so much more, if you're willing to do some research. These people are good at what they do. They know America. They know which buttons to push, in order to keep things the way that they are. They have a lot to lose, if there is reform.

But the point that I'm trying to make, is that these are people who are worth billions of dollars. And while most of us believe that the government couldn't care less about us....I can tell you that these people (lobbyists) sure the hell don't care about you.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. But you should know both sides of the story.

deflection
you havent proven anything

I'd highly suggest you just stamp on your forehead, "Republicans tell me how the think".

It proves plenty, only a partisan hack couldn't see that.

wow, what a fucking hypocrite
you are the only hack i see

 

[DiveCon]

I really don't know what you are referring to, exercising free speech?

BTW could you provide the link, that shows recess rally is funded by the health care industry? Other than Maddow or other leftist?

I don't want to be rude, but are you playing dumb on purpose?

I will repeat one more time and spell it out slowly. How these republican groups are functioning:
Telling lies. Spreading talking point lies. Posting only democratic town hall meetings to their websites. Sending representatives to these meetings that are lying about their identities and disrupting Q&A. Bussing people into these meetings.

And no I won't because you can look it up if you care to know the truth. I really don't think you have an honest desire to do so though. You just want to confirm your belief over and over.

Telling lies, yet you have not shown one lie told.
Democrat only....???
From the website in the Maddow report....
Maryland Recess Rally : RECESS RALLY :: Nationwide Rally against Socialized Medicine
Representative Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. (D – 01)
102 Turpins Lane
Centreville, MD 21617
Voice: 443-262-9136
FAX: 443-262-9713

—

Representative C. A. Dutch Ruppersberger (D – 02)
75 West Padonia Road, Suite 200
Timonium, MD 21093
Voice: 410-628-2701
FAX: 410-628-2708

—

Representative John Sarbanes (D – 03)
600 Baltimore Avenue, Suite 303
Towson, MD 21204
Voice: 410-832-8890
FAX: 410-832-8898

Arundel Center, Suite 349
44 Calvert Street
Annapolis, MD 21401
Voice: 410-295-1679
FAX: 410-295-1682

—

Representative Donna Edwards (D – 04)
8730 Georgia Avenue, suite 209
Silver Spring, MD 20910
Voice: 301-562-7960
FAX: 301-562-7964

5001 Silver Hill Road, Suite 106
Suitland, MD 10746
Voice: 301-516-7601
FAX: 301-516-7608

—

Representative Steny Hoyer (D – 05)
401 Post Office Road, Suite 202
Waldorf, MD 20602
Voice: 301-843-1577
FAX: 301-843-1331

U.S. District Courthouse, Suite 310
6500 Cherrywood Lane
Greenbelt, MD 20770
Voice: 301-474-0119
FAX: 301-474-4697

—

Representative Roscoe Bartlett (R – 06)
11377 Robinwood Drive, Suite F
Hagerstown, MD 21742
Voice: 301-797-6043
FAX: 301-797-2385

1 Frederick Street, Suite 2
Cumberland, MD 21502
Voice: 301-724-3105
FAX: 301-724-3538

15 East Main Street, Suite 110
Westminster, MD 21157-5000
Voice: 410-857-1115
FAX: 410-857-3648

7360 Guilford Drive, Suite 101
Frederick, MD 21704
Voice: 301-694-3030
FAX: 301-694-6674

—

Representative Elijah E. Cummings (D – 07)
Ellicott Mills Post Office, Room 102
8267 Main Street
Ellicott City, MD 21043-8267
Voice: 410-465-8259
FAX: 410-465-8740

754 Frederick Road
Catonsville, MD 21228-4504
Voice: 410-719-8777
FAX: 410-455-0110

1010 Park Avenue, Suite 105
Baltimore, MD 21201
Voice: 410-685-9199
FAX: 410-685-9399

—

Representative Chris Van Hollen, Jr. (D – 08)
51 Monroe Street, Suite 507
Rockville, MD 20850
Voice: 301-424-3501
FAX: 301-424-5992

6475 New Hampshire Avenue, Suite C-201
Hyattsville, MD 20783
Voice: 301-891-6982
FAX: 301-891-6985


I guess that R is for Democrat huh?
Now who is telling lies?

figures, this guy is the partisan one and calling everyone else one
he's an asshole

 

[veritas]

That "R" is Roscoe and he needs to go. He's 83 and he's been there since 1993. I'd rather have Beverly Byron back and she's dead these many years. He's a nice guy, but weird. Seventh Day Adventist with a manor house and apartments in his silos and basement for people..........eek.

Scott Rolle should have been able to beat him. Jennifer Dougherty should have been able to beat him.

His latest thing is how the smart grid will make us more vulnerable to EMPS.

He has no relevance to the health care debate whatsoever.....NONE.

 

[jreeves]

That "R" is Roscoe and he needs to go. He's 83 and he's been there since 1993. I'd rather have Beverly Byron back and she's dead these many years. He's a nice guy, but weird. Seventh Day Adventist with a manor house and apartments in his silos and basement for people..........eek.

Scott Rolle should have been able to beat him. Jennifer Dougherty should have been able to beat him.

His latest thing is how the smart grid will make us more vulnerable to EMPS.

He has no relevance to the health care debate whatsoever.....NONE.

Other than 'one world' claiming that this website only targeted democrats...

 

[veritas]

In Maryland there are ONLY Democrats..........except for Roscoe, on the Federal level, and as I said before, he doesn't count. He's off shaving margins on appropriations for laser arrays somewhere........

 

[jreeves]

In Maryland there are ONLY Democrats..........except for Roscoe, on the Federal level, and as I said before, he doesn't count. He's off shaving margins on appropriations for laser arrays somewhere........

Oh so now Rep. on the website don't count if you don't agree with their policies. I see...

 

[DiveCon]

In Maryland there are ONLY Democrats..........except for Roscoe, on the Federal level, and as I said before, he doesn't count. He's off shaving margins on appropriations for laser arrays somewhere........

Oh so now Rep. on the website don't count if you don't agree with their policies. I see...

it only exposes how foolish he is

 

[veritas]

In Maryland there are ONLY Democrats..........except for Roscoe, on the Federal level, and as I said before, he doesn't count. He's off shaving margins on appropriations for laser arrays somewhere........

Oh so now Rep. on the website don't count if you don't agree with their policies. I see...

I'm not keeping up on EMPs at the moment as it doesn't seem to be a hot topic here or in the House. So I can't say whether I agree or disagree or if it is an issue I wish to study further. If Roscoe is having a town meeting it isn't about health care, it would probably have to do with something more banal like farm subsidies or mining or technical issues. At any rate he isn't on a committee that would have any impact on the bills presently being crafted.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Typical left wing bullshit post. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't posted by a member of ACORN. Can't stand it because people are actually standing up for what they believe can you? Bring on the next pack of lies.

 

[veritas]

Typical left wing bullshit post. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't posted by a member of ACORN. Can't stand it because people are actually standing up for what they believe can you? Bring on the next pack of lies.

To which post are you referring? You sound like you just post whatever sounds good to you or is suitably dismissive of anything that doesn't fit your daily talking points.

 

[DiveCon]

Typical left wing bullshit post. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't posted by a member of ACORN. Can't stand it because people are actually standing up for what they believe can you? Bring on the next pack of lies.

To which post are you referring? You sound like you just post whatever sounds good to you or is suitably dismissive of anything that doesn't fit your daily talking points.

generally, if someone doesnt quote anything, i usually take it to me they are responding to the OP and not really the post just before them

 

[jreeves]

Typical left wing bullshit post. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't posted by a member of ACORN. Can't stand it because people are actually standing up for what they believe can you? Bring on the next pack of lies.

To which post are you referring? You sound like you just post whatever sounds good to you or is suitably dismissive of anything that doesn't fit your daily talking points.

Pot meet kettle

 

[twogreen2c]

On another note, Rachel you need to accessorize. Come on girl, some tiny earrings won't kill you. And maybe a dainty necklace. Your bare bone look is distracting. I won't even get into the hair do.

 

[Maple]

Good lord and you site an MSNBC channel, you do know that their ratings are soooooooooooooo low, that it's a wonder anyone is watching them. You must be the ONLY one.

 

[Bfgrn]

YouTube - Rachel Maddow Exposes "Fake" Protesters At Health Care Town Halls

And Republicans still don't believe they are being directed and told what to think?

Look, on the left they have begun groups like this over the past 10 years to model what Repubs have been doing for quite some time. This strategy is just bad for America period. The only difference that I see between the two groups is that on the left they are not largely funded by corporate interest (some are), and not seeing blatant lies being told to them. But regardless, it's not right.

So if you can watch that video, and still say you're not being lied to, and there is not an orchestrated effort to mis-inform and shut down legitimate conversation... you will forever be blind.

Dr. Evil-Soros injects millions into healthcare debate
s George Soros Dr. Evil? He's Dr. Feel Good to Health Care for America Now.

Health Care for America Now, one of those "grassroots" organizations Dems usually love, just got a lotta love - five million dollars worth - from the MoveOn.org financier. Greg Sargent's The Plum Line reports HCAN's effectiveness has been questioned, although HCAN is highly organized. Soros funds grassroots organizing for progressive causes and candidates.

MoveOn.org is a Soros favorite. Five million members financed Barack Obama's Presidential campaign. They've also been willing to donate on a dime, responding instantly to urgent appeals for money to support a variety of progressive causes.

MoveOn.org is a mouthpiece for progressive propagandizing, according to Capital Research Center.

Apparently there are good grassroots and bad grassroots, according to everyone on the left. Progressives attacked spontaneous disruptions of their thoughtful, intelligent town hall health care discussions, aka indoctrination. The attackers are the bad seeds of the grassroots movements, aka old people, not obedient to the health care manifesto.

President Obama and everyone on the left are fighting back against the bad seeds. The mantra is the old people are financed by the insurance companies, lobbyists and big money interests, like George Soros.

Perhaps a blind date (even though we know they are too old for him) should be arranged for George Soros and those big money donors on the right?

Sadly, such a meeting would end up in a no show, since George Soros is one of a kind. There is no George Soros on the right. The opposition is more spontaneous combustion than deliberate construction.

The mystery is how President Obama and everyone he likes think they can get away with the criticism of an authentic uprising as well financed and most puzzling, organized.

Aren't they smart enough? They think they are, you can see it in their videos. That smirk that says We won. Barack Obama got elected using double talk, disinformation and outright lies.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?
Hmmm....

Health Care for America NOW - About Us
Health Care for America Now and its principles for reform are supported by President Obama, Vice President Biden, and more than 190 Members of Congress. HCAN has more than 1,000 member organizations in 46 states. We are doctors, nurses, community organizations, labor unions, small business owners, faith-based groups, people of color, seniors, and children’s and women’s rights groups.

For the complete list of HCAN members, view our membership list.

Our Steering Committee includes: ACORN, AFL-CIO, AFSCME, AFT, Americans United for Change, Campaign for America’s Future, Center for American Progress Action Fund, Campaign for Community Change, Children’s Defense Fund Action Council, Communications Workers of America, International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace & Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW), MoveOn.org, NAACP, National Council of La Raza, National Education Association, National Women’s Law Center, SEIU, UFCW, USAction, Women's Voices, Women's Vote and Working America.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Working people!!!!

How DARE they!!!

Hey PEA brain...do you EVER look at who is behind every right wing cause? Look into the Scaife Foundations...home of the biggest polluters on the planet....