The Real Story of the Stem Cell Debate

[PoliticalChic]

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

Yeah, yeah, you're just too samrt for the room, right. I'm afraid you're merely a legend in your own mind. I know very well what you're saying and reject it categorically. It doesn't meet the logic test. Just because something is difficult and seems to be taking longer than thought, doesn't make it impossible. The alchemist charge is a smokescreen in that there's no real relationship between what they were attempting and stem cell research.

Let me give you an analogy, Konny....if you can barely swim, you should have a splashy-fun time in the shallow end of the pool...don't go into any part that is over your head.

 

[Wry Catcher]

No, actually, you don't.

But you've run out of any arguments that would allow you to obviate the essence of the thread, i.e. that the are no good reasons to keep spending the time and funds on a failed technology....

... and there is the fear that it is, in reality, an ideology that is behind your less-than- thought-through assertions.

Take a chance...study the evolution of Marxism up to and through the Frankfurt School, and its insertion into the American mind via the universities....
...and you will see how many dots it connects.



Of course, you will lose all of your Liberal friends....but: courage! Courage!

Classic Red Herring, notice the evolution of PC's posts, partway through the thread, PC goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader from what's really at stake and she never returns to the original issue.

Notice who is in company with PC, Whitehall, though s/he is simply a parrot who clearly has no idea about the subject, s/he uses a trite ad hominem, suggesting those who support research are Nazi's.

Trying to broaden your horizons, Wry...help you to bat away the left-wing cob-webs...

I fully understand your reticence...your fear that everything that you've bought like it was on sale, might be false..

But, take care, you give the appearance of spinning out of control...
see: "...goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader..."


Not a tangent, as in irrelevant, but a tangent that give the dispositive note on the discussion.
And as far as "...distracts the reader..." why would you think that others cannot hold several thoughts in their mind...
...unless this is autobiographical.

Pointing out the defects which weaken your case is necessary as evidence never disabuses you of the notion that you know all. Such arrgant narcissim may fool some but not many. Red Herrings, ad hominem's and appeals to ignorance seem to be your forte, I'm not impressed, and in all honesty question your sanity.

 

[BlindBoo]

Despite no funding from the Federal Government during the Bush Presidency, the US still holds the lead. At lot of changes since 2005.

Doctors, researchers and scientists are working every day on treatments and cures for heart disease, diabetes, spinal cord injury and many other afflictions. Below are several advances announced since 2008 at institutions across the United States and around the world.

Missouri Cures: Recent Stem Cell Advances

 

[PoliticalChic]

Despite no funding from the Federal Government during the Bush Presidency, the US still holds the lead. At lot of changes since 2005.

Doctors, researchers and scientists are working every day on treatments and cures for heart disease, diabetes, spinal cord injury and many other afflictions. Below are several advances announced since 2008 at institutions across the United States and around the world.

Missouri Cures: Recent Stem Cell Advances

Imagine...if you were wrong about this, in how many other areas are you misguided?

Less than two months after his inauguration, Mr Obama issued an executive order “removing [Bush’s] barriers to responsible scientific research involving human stem cells” and “directing the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy to develop a strategy for restoring scientific integrity to government decision making”…. Finally we had a president who would open the floodgates of government funding for human embryonic stem cell research.

Myth 1: Bush banned federal funding of hESC (human embryonic stem cell ) research. (Some people even thought that he outlawed the research itself.)

(1) from President Obama’s address on March 9, 2009: “we will lift the ban on federal funding for promising embryonic stem cell research.”
(2) from the media: “President Obama lifted the eight-year-old ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research yesterday…” – Washington Post, March 10, 2009
(3) from progressive websites: “With the stroke of a pen, President Barack Obama today erased the Bush administration’s eight-year-old restrictions on federal funding of research involving human embryonic stem cells, reaffirming his commitment to evidence and biomedical hope over his predecessor’s ideological distortion of science.” – Science Progress
(4) from bioethicists: "After eight years of zero-budget funding of embryonic stem cell research, it is hardly fair and completely disingenuous for critics to point to the practice and wonder why it lags four decades behind government-funded adult stem cell research," -- Art Caplan, University of Pennsylvania
Fact 1: Bush was the first to initiate the federal funding of hESC research.

Myth 2: Bush was a foe of science and stem cell research.
Supporting evidence:
(1) The signing of Obama’s executive order was “a momentous occasion for anyone who believes in the pursuit of biomedical knowledge for the betterment of human health." -- Harvard Stem Cell Institute researcher George Daley.
(2) "This marks a new era for stem cell research. It will not only impact research in the laboratory, but perhaps more importantly, it finally lifts the black cloud that has hovered over this research for so long. We have been operating for the last decade with one hand tied behind our back," -- Robert Lanza, science director of Advanced Cell Technologies.
(3) “Bush’s approach to the issue of embryonic stem cell research… showed a deep disregard for the role of scientific information in political decision-making.” -- Chris Mooney, The Republican War On Science
Fact 2: The NIH stem cell budget grew by leaps and bounds under Bush.

Myth 3: President Obama has greatly increased funding for human embryonic stem cell research.
Supporting evidence:
(1) “The order was issued just in time for researchers to take advantage of money in Mr. Obama's economic recovery package and use it for stem cell studies.” - NYTimes
(2) “The President's [March 9, 2009] decision does much more than expand funding for stem-cell research. It heralds a shift in the government's view of science, ushering in an era in which it promises to defend science — and the pursuit of useful treatments — against ideology.” – Time, March 9, 2009
Fact 3: Stem cell scientists are still waiting for the river of gold. Even though Obama removed Bush’s restrictions on federal funds for hESC research, he has barely increased the hESC budget. MercatorNet: Barack, can you spare a dime?

Need more?

President Bush announced, on August 9, 2001 that federal funds, for the first time, would be made available for hESC research on currently existing embryonic stem cell lines. President Bush authorized research on existing human embryonic stem cell lines, not on human embryos under a specific, unrealistic timeline in which the stem cell lines must have been developed.
Stem cell controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So...want to retract?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A bit more food for thought. No doubt some will question the sources, but doing so while defending a reporter seems both dishonest and somewhat irrational.

Religion and Adult Stem Cell Research - Explore Stem Cells

Stem Cell Controversy - Explore Stem Cells

And another source:

Stem Cell Research News

Medical writer Michael Fumento sourced how many studies in his article?

The real story is stem cell research today looks at applications from all sources and combines the talents of molecular biologists, developmental and cell biologists, neurobiologists, immunologists and cancer researchers.

Eli and Edythe Broad Center of Regeneration Medicine and Stem Cell Research - UCSF School of Medicine

I just read through your links....and I'm embarrassed for you.

Do you mean to suggest that there was evidence in them claiming efficacy for ESC????

No...they talk of potential, new studies beginning, what might be, what could be, they discuss stem cells without differentiating between adult and/or embryonic...

Now, I know that you're not stupid....are you trying to obfuscate?

List the successes claimed for ESC.

Or retract your objections to the OP.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Classic Red Herring, notice the evolution of PC's posts, partway through the thread, PC goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader from what's really at stake and she never returns to the original issue.

Notice who is in company with PC, Whitehall, though s/he is simply a parrot who clearly has no idea about the subject, s/he uses a trite ad hominem, suggesting those who support research are Nazi's.

Trying to broaden your horizons, Wry...help you to bat away the left-wing cob-webs...

I fully understand your reticence...your fear that everything that you've bought like it was on sale, might be false..

But, take care, you give the appearance of spinning out of control...
see: "...goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader..."


Not a tangent, as in irrelevant, but a tangent that give the dispositive note on the discussion.
And as far as "...distracts the reader..." why would you think that others cannot hold several thoughts in their mind...
...unless this is autobiographical.

Pointing out the defects which weaken your case is necessary as evidence never disabuses you of the notion that you know all. Such arrgant narcissim may fool some but not many. Red Herrings, ad hominem's and appeals to ignorance seem to be your forte, I'm not impressed, and in all honesty question your sanity.

And here is a specific example of ASC's success near and dear to my heart: Bartolo Colon!

"The fastballs were humming out of Bartolo Colon's right hand Wednesday night, the Yankee starter's heat routinely registering in the low to mid-90s on the radar gun.

Colon's strong outings and lively fastball are all the more notable after the former Cy Young winner missed the entire 2010 season due to elbow surgery. The two seasons prior to 2010, Colon was in severe decline, making just 19 starts for two different teams during that stretch.

Colon was the beneficiary of a legal stem cell procedure in 2010, even though stem cell treatment is still very much a developing science.

Stem cells were taken from Colon's bone marrow and fat tissue and were then injected into Colon's elbow and shoulder to help repair damaged ligaments and a torn rotator cuff."
MLB investigates Yankees' Bartolo Colon stem cell procedure; technology is still in its infancy


ASCs.

Where are the ESC success stories?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g04aCp3ej-I]YouTube - ‪Cricket Chirping Sound Effects‬‏[/ame]

 

[Wry Catcher]

Trying to broaden your horizons, Wry...help you to bat away the left-wing cob-webs...

I fully understand your reticence...your fear that everything that you've bought like it was on sale, might be false..

But, take care, you give the appearance of spinning out of control...
see: "...goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader..."


Not a tangent, as in irrelevant, but a tangent that give the dispositive note on the discussion.
And as far as "...distracts the reader..." why would you think that others cannot hold several thoughts in their mind...
...unless this is autobiographical.

Pointing out the defects which weaken your case is necessary as evidence never disabuses you of the notion that you know all. Such arrgant narcissim may fool some but not many. Red Herrings, ad hominem's and appeals to ignorance seem to be your forte, I'm not impressed, and in all honesty question your sanity.

And here is a specific example of ASC's success near and dear to my heart: Bartolo Colon!

"The fastballs were humming out of Bartolo Colon's right hand Wednesday night, the Yankee starter's heat routinely registering in the low to mid-90s on the radar gun.

Colon's strong outings and lively fastball are all the more notable after the former Cy Young winner missed the entire 2010 season due to elbow surgery. The two seasons prior to 2010, Colon was in severe decline, making just 19 starts for two different teams during that stretch.

Colon was the beneficiary of a legal stem cell procedure in 2010, even though stem cell treatment is still very much a developing science.

Stem cells were taken from Colon's bone marrow and fat tissue and were then injected into Colon's elbow and shoulder to help repair damaged ligaments and a torn rotator cuff."
MLB investigates Yankees' Bartolo Colon stem cell procedure; technology is still in its infancy


ASCs.

Where are the ESC success stories?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g04aCp3ej-I]YouTube - ‪Cricket Chirping Sound Effects‬‏[/ame]

As posted and as I've stated research is underway on ALL sources of stem cells for treatment of all sorts of disease and injury. Changing the argument and being obsessed in 'winning' is what gives me pause to question your mental health.

I understand there are and have been successful treatments with ASC's. That fact does not obviate the need for further research with ASC's and ESC's. That you disagree is at best perplexing.

 

[konradv]

List the successes claimed for ESC.

Or retract your objections to the OP.

They aren't mutually exclusive propositions. One can have both no successes to report AND believe the OP is false. Just because nothing has come of it yet, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Using your logic, man would have abandoned flight as soon as Icarus fell into the sea.

 

[Wry Catcher]

List the successes claimed for ESC.

Or retract your objections to the OP.

They aren't mutually exclusive propositions. One can have both no successes to report AND believe the OP is false. Just because nothing has come of it yet, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Using your logic, man would have abandoned flight as soon as Icarus fell into the sea.

PC is a partisan, reason is not a factor in any of her posts. She finds articles, books and blogs which support a wholly conservative opinon and attacks any and all who question her beliefs.

Even understanding this venue is a political message board and stongly held opinons are commonplace, PC stands out as obsessive and extreme. She is minful of a talking head on cable TV, paid to defend a political position at any cost, even when said defense approaches absurdity. In her case defense is usually offense (and offensive) for the defense offers is (never? I dislike using superlatives) almost always a personal attack or other unreasoned reponse as she employed in this thread.

I would like the powers that be to offer a category on problems and solutions where issues were not debated. A place where problems were identified by the author of the thread, defined with some clarity, and solutions offered by respondents were their ideas - nuinced of course by a certain political ideology, but not the same trite talking points or glib idiotgrams we hear everyday.

 

[PoliticalChic]

List the successes claimed for ESC.

Or retract your objections to the OP.

They aren't mutually exclusive propositions. One can have both no successes to report AND believe the OP is false. Just because nothing has come of it yet, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Using your logic, man would have abandoned flight as soon as Icarus fell into the sea.

PC is a partisan, reason is not a factor in any of her posts. She finds articles, books and blogs which support a wholly conservative opinon and attacks any and all who question her beliefs.

Even understanding this venue is a political message board and stongly held opinons are commonplace, PC stands out as obsessive and extreme. She is minful of a talking head on cable TV, paid to defend a political position at any cost, even when said defense approaches absurdity. In her case defense is usually offense (and offensive) for the defense offers is (never? I dislike using superlatives) almost always a personal attack or other unreasoned reponse as she employed in this thread.

I would like the powers that be to offer a category on problems and solutions where issues were not debated. A place where problems were identified by the author of the thread, defined with some clarity, and solutions offered by respondents were their ideas - nuinced of course by a certain political ideology, but not the same trite talking points or glib idiotgrams we hear everyday.

Me offensive????

Me????

While watching “Swamp People,” I realized what brings you here, to the board. It’s the hopes for a whole, live chicken, isn’t it?

Clearly, you have not been able to incorporate the ideas in this thread...you merely go back to mumbling about how terrible my attitude is...
...and this from someone who wouldn't know the difference between Michelob and Michaelanagelo.

Offensive? Me? Hmmumph!


Consider this a three finger snap in a z-formation!

 

[PoliticalChic]

List the successes claimed for ESC.

Or retract your objections to the OP.

They aren't mutually exclusive propositions. One can have both no successes to report AND believe the OP is false. Just because nothing has come of it yet, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Using your logic, man would have abandoned flight as soon as Icarus fell into the sea.

Missing the point seems to be your main point....

a) The successes of ASC technology are myriad.

b) The successes of ESC technology....'missing in action.'

c) Yet the Left keeps rattling their cage about ESC, more print, more acclaim, more funds...
Don't you wonder why?

d) Do you wonder about anything?

e) Did you know that ESC studies end up with cancerous tumors, as well?

OK, Konny, here is where the train goes off the tracks for you...

The French Revolution was the beginning of the Left, and the core of all Leftist thinking is the destrution of any semblance of religion in society...

f) In France, Enlightenment was joined not just with antipathy to clerical authority, but with religion itself.

g) Voltaire claimed that the infamy was not just the Catholic Church, but Christianity itself, he cried "écrasez l'infâme," or "crush the infamous". The phrase refers to abuses to the people by royalty and the clergy that Voltaire saw around him.


h) Marxists extended the idea to the destruction of all traditional values. Following Antonio Gramsci, Gyorgy Lukacs promoted the idea that while Marx’s Dialectic Materialism may not have been predictive, it hinted at the real necessity: destroying the status quo would bring Marxism. This could be done through breaking down traditional Judeo-Christian morality and discrediting and undermining the established institutions from within.

What does this have to do with ASC vs. ESC?

When only one is successful, but the one that helps by "breaking down traditional Judeo-Christian morality" is the unsuccessful one, and yet is still the one that is trumpeted....ask yourself why.

 

[Wry Catcher]

They aren't mutually exclusive propositions. One can have both no successes to report AND believe the OP is false. Just because nothing has come of it yet, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Using your logic, man would have abandoned flight as soon as Icarus fell into the sea.

PC is a partisan, reason is not a factor in any of her posts. She finds articles, books and blogs which support a wholly conservative opinon and attacks any and all who question her beliefs.

Even understanding this venue is a political message board and stongly held opinons are commonplace, PC stands out as obsessive and extreme. She is minful of a talking head on cable TV, paid to defend a political position at any cost, even when said defense approaches absurdity. In her case defense is usually offense (and offensive) for the defense offers is (never? I dislike using superlatives) almost always a personal attack or other unreasoned reponse as she employed in this thread.

I would like the powers that be to offer a category on problems and solutions where issues were not debated. A place where problems were identified by the author of the thread, defined with some clarity, and solutions offered by respondents were their ideas - nuinced of course by a certain political ideology, but not the same trite talking points or glib idiotgrams we hear everyday.

Me offensive????

Me????

While watching “Swamp People,” I realized what brings you here, to the board. It’s the hopes for a whole, live chicken, isn’t it?

Clearly, you have not been able to incorporate the ideas in this thread...you merely go back to mumbling about how terrible my attitude is...
...and this from someone who wouldn't know the difference between Michelob and Michaelanagelo.

Offensive? Me? Hmmumph!


Consider this a three finger snap in a z-formation!

Why am I not surprised you watch something called "Swamp People"?

Chicken is one of my favorites, it can be prepared with great variety. Of course the chicken we purchase is boneless and skinless, not on the hoof, so to speak. We prepare it, generally, on the grill, in casseroles, in the wok or oven using recipes from all around the world and here at home.

And of course none of this is on point and your stubbourn refusal to admit defeat makes further discourse absurd; your thread along with your efforts to spread ignorance has failed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is a partisan, reason is not a factor in any of her posts. She finds articles, books and blogs which support a wholly conservative opinon and attacks any and all who question her beliefs.

Even understanding this venue is a political message board and stongly held opinons are commonplace, PC stands out as obsessive and extreme. She is minful of a talking head on cable TV, paid to defend a political position at any cost, even when said defense approaches absurdity. In her case defense is usually offense (and offensive) for the defense offers is (never? I dislike using superlatives) almost always a personal attack or other unreasoned reponse as she employed in this thread.

I would like the powers that be to offer a category on problems and solutions where issues were not debated. A place where problems were identified by the author of the thread, defined with some clarity, and solutions offered by respondents were their ideas - nuinced of course by a certain political ideology, but not the same trite talking points or glib idiotgrams we hear everyday.

Me offensive????

Me????

While watching “Swamp People,” I realized what brings you here, to the board. It’s the hopes for a whole, live chicken, isn’t it?

Clearly, you have not been able to incorporate the ideas in this thread...you merely go back to mumbling about how terrible my attitude is...
...and this from someone who wouldn't know the difference between Michelob and Michaelanagelo.

Offensive? Me? Hmmumph!


Consider this a three finger snap in a z-formation!

Why am I not surprised you watch something called "Swamp People"?

Chicken is one of my favorites, it can be prepared with great variety. Of course the chicken we purchase is boneless and skinless, not on the hoof, so to speak. We prepare it, generally, on the grill, in casseroles, in the wok or oven using recipes from all around the world and here at home.

And of course none of this is on point and your stubbourn refusal to admit defeat makes further discourse absurd; your thread along with your efforts to spread ignorance has failed.

1. 'Swamp People' prepares me for folks that I meet on the boared...like you.

2. "...on the grill, in casseroles, in the wok ..." Do you deliver?

3. "...to spread ignorance..." Logic is another one of your non-strong-suits, eh? How could I be speading ignornce when you admitted earlier that you know nothing about stem cells??? You've got the market cornered!

 

[daveman]

Do you know what precedes threatment? Research. Did Boooooosh restrict research? Yep Ma'am, he show nuff did. Did that slow research? Yep, uh huh. Y'all have a good evening now ma'am.

Even though it has been researched for years, with both private and public funding, in countries across the globe, embryonic stem cell research has yet to produce a single successful therapy.

Meanwhile, adult stem cell research has produced treatments for brain injuries, stroke, retina regeneration, heart tissue regeneration, angina, diabetes, bone cancer, nerve regeneration, cerebral palsy, cartilage regeneration, Parkinsons, kidney damage, liver cancer, lupus, multiple sclerosis, leukemia and more.​

How terrible of Bush to ban ESC research all over the world.

 

[daveman]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

Are you?

My premise? How the hell would I know which is the most effective? I took basic Chem, physics and biology in college - bone head courses required to graduate.

Guess you're not. Why are you insisting she be?

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

Are you?

My premise? How the hell would I know which is the most effective? I took basic Chem, physics and biology in college - bone head courses required to graduate.

Guess you're not. Why are you insisting she be?

daveboy, I refuse to get in a pissing contest with you again. To engage in a battle of wits with you would make me a bully for you come to each fray only half prepared, and you're a liar.

My candor gives you license to make a stupid comment, I admited to having had only cursory knowledge and that means I had a level of ignorance. But my ignorance is not willful and with a bit of research I have a good idea of the status of stem cell research today.

I presented a reasonable argument and it was rejected, not by facts, and like you, with repeated personal attacks and stubborn insistence on facts which do not exist.

btw, I've read a number of your recent posts, it's kinda sad to know you spend a lot of time calling others names. I thought you reserved such childish profanities only for me; it seems you react to everyone who expresses opinions and ideas which conflict with yours with profanity.

 

[daveman]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

Are you?

My premise? How the hell would I know which is the most effective? I took basic Chem, physics and biology in college - bone head courses required to graduate.

Guess you're not. Why are you insisting she be?

daveboy, I refuse to get in a pissing contest with you again. To engage in a battle of wits with you would make me a bully for you come to each fray only half prepared...

It's funny how you condemn me for calling names at the end of your post. Hypocrite.

...and you're a liar.

How many times do I have to tell you, moron?

Lie

There's nothing in there about "something a leftist disagrees with".

For someone as allegedly intelligent as you are, you sure are pretty fucking ignorant about the English language.

My candor gives you license to make a stupid comment, I admited to having had only cursory knowledge and that means I had a level of ignorance. But my ignorance is not willful and with a bit of research I have a good idea of the status of stem cell research today.

I presented a reasonable argument and it was rejected, not by facts, and like you, with repeated personal attacks and stubborn insistence on facts which do not exist.

Yeah. So why do you hold CG to a higher educational standard than you yourself possess?

This is just a lame version of the "chickenhawk" argument. She can't have an opinion (at least, she can't have one that contradicts yours -- blasphemey! ) unless she's a microbiologist.

But a retired cop can have a valid opinion...as long as it's the approved opinion.

Y'know, it really is funny how you consider yourself smarter than everyone else based on no evidence whatsoever.

btw, I've read a number of your recent posts, it's kinda sad to know you spend a lot of time calling others names. I thought you reserved such childish profanities only for me; it seems you react to everyone who expresses opinions and ideas which conflict with yours with profanity.

Then you haven't been paying attention, have you? And I can't help but notice that you don't condemn anyone else for the same thing...including, of course, yourself.

Hypocrite.

Poor Wry. Somebody hurt his widdle feewings.

 

[flacaltenn]

Whole chickens eh?? And chicken hawks.. Someone's hungry...

Oh well. You might remember when Bush allegedly "shut-down" ESC research, that my (former) leftist neighbors in California voted themselves THEIR VERY state funded Stem Cell Research facility. I was amazed at the time that we thought the state could afford such an expensive slap at Bush. But they were sooooo dam outraged -- money was no object...

California's Proposition 71 Failure - IBD - Investors.com

Bioethics: Five years after a budget-busting $3 billion was allocated to embryonic stem cell research, there have been no cures, no therapies and little progress. So supporters are embracing research they once opposed.

California's Proposition 71 was intended to create a $3 billion West Coast counterpart to the National Institutes of Health, empowered to go where the NIH could not — either because of federal policy or funding restraints on biomedical research centered on human embryonic stem cells.

Supporters of the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative, passed in 2004, held out hopes of imminent medical miracles that were being held up only by President Bush's policy of not allowing federal funding of embryonic stem cell research (ESCR) beyond existing stem cell lines and which involved the destruction of embryos created for that purpose.

Five years later, ESCR has failed to deliver and backers of Prop 71 are admitting failure. The California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, the state agency created to, as some have put it, restore science to its rightful place, is diverting funds from ESCR to research that has produced actual therapies and treatments: adult stem cell research. It not only has treated real people with real results; it also does not come with the moral baggage ESCR does.

To us, this is a classic bait-and-switch, an attempt to snatch success from the jaws of failure and take credit for discoveries and advances achieved by research Prop. 71 supporters once cavalierly dismissed. We have noted how over the years that when funding was needed, the phrase "embryonic stem cells" was used. When actual progress was discussed, the word "embryonic" was dropped because ESCR never got out of the lab.

WEEEE DAAWWWGGIES that hurts -- don't it Wry? Now give P-Chick that whole chicken you promised.

The pro side of this mudtussle isn't shocked. The rest of you should go donate to the looming California LEFTIST appocalyptic relief fund...

 

[Wry Catcher]

Whole chickens eh?? And chicken hawks.. Someone's hungry...

Oh well. You might remember when Bush allegedly "shut-down" ESC research, that my (former) leftist neighbors in California voted themselves THEIR VERY state funded Stem Cell Research facility. I was amazed at the time that we thought the state could afford such an expensive slap at Bush. But they were sooooo dam outraged -- money was no object...

California's Proposition 71 Failure - IBD - Investors.com

Bioethics: Five years after a budget-busting $3 billion was allocated to embryonic stem cell research, there have been no cures, no therapies and little progress. So supporters are embracing research they once opposed.

California's Proposition 71 was intended to create a $3 billion West Coast counterpart to the National Institutes of Health, empowered to go where the NIH could not — either because of federal policy or funding restraints on biomedical research centered on human embryonic stem cells.

Supporters of the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative, passed in 2004, held out hopes of imminent medical miracles that were being held up only by President Bush's policy of not allowing federal funding of embryonic stem cell research (ESCR) beyond existing stem cell lines and which involved the destruction of embryos created for that purpose.

Five years later, ESCR has failed to deliver and backers of Prop 71 are admitting failure. The California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, the state agency created to, as some have put it, restore science to its rightful place, is diverting funds from ESCR to research that has produced actual therapies and treatments: adult stem cell research. It not only has treated real people with real results; it also does not come with the moral baggage ESCR does.

To us, this is a classic bait-and-switch, an attempt to snatch success from the jaws of failure and take credit for discoveries and advances achieved by research Prop. 71 supporters once cavalierly dismissed. We have noted how over the years that when funding was needed, the phrase "embryonic stem cells" was used. When actual progress was discussed, the word "embryonic" was dropped because ESCR never got out of the lab.

WEEEE DAAWWWGGIES that hurts -- don't it Wry? Now give P-Chick that whole chicken you promised.

The pro side of this mudtussle isn't shocked. The rest of you should go donate to the looming California LEFTIST appocalyptic relief fund...

Time will tell. Research is on-going on all sources for stem cells. In San Francisco, within sight of AT&T park, redevelopment has greated hundreds - maybe thousands - of jobs. Acres of science centered, high tech, construction and service related jobs.

Notwithstanding this benefit, If you were to read the links I offered above you might see that ESC research is on-going. The difference between the OP's opinion and reality is the scientific community doesn't limit its research to what the Right deems politically correct.

 

[Old Rocks]

What we have here are the people that are afraid of any kind of science. Period. Unless it can be used for killing other people, of cours.

Stem cell research does not have to produce any cures to be very valuable. Any research that advance our knowledge of the development of the human body is bound to aid in diagnosing and curing the various ailmenst of that body.

How many times did chemists investigate the odd quircks of various materials before someone investigated semi-conductors? Was all of that research wasted?

Research often involves answering questions yet unasked. What PC and the 'Conservatives' are advocating here is failing to ask the question before or after. Too bad that some people simply fear real knowledge, and consistantly deny the existance of knowledge already proven.