The Real Story of the Stem Cell Debate

[PoliticalChic]

The OP makes a logical error in assuming that because FSCs haven't had the track record of of ASCs, they never will. Man tried to fly for centuries. What if the Wright Brothers had adopted the OP's line of thinking?

Konny, did the Alchemist Union bribe you to post this???

 

[konradv]

The OP makes a logical error in assuming that because FSCs haven't had the track record of of ASCs, they never will. Man tried to fly for centuries. What if the Wright Brothers had adopted the OP's line of thinking?

Konny, did the Alchemist Union bribe you to post this???

I'm disappointed. Expected more than a non-response. Is that how Rep is earned?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The OP makes a logical error in assuming that because FSCs haven't had the track record of of ASCs, they never will. Man tried to fly for centuries. What if the Wright Brothers had adopted the OP's line of thinking?

Konny, did the Alchemist Union bribe you to post this???

I'm disappointed. Expected more than a non-response. Is that how Rep is earned?

There are volumes in that response,...if only you understood what the Alchemists were....

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

What is your agenda? Posting one sided articles, always offering a partisan take on such diverse fields as history, science and politics without a hint of being balanced, suggests an agenda. And then, typically, defending your post which are the opinion's of others by attacking with sarcasm and an arrogant dismissal of those who question 'your' opinion.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A bit more food for thought. No doubt some will question the sources, but doing so while defending a reporter seems both dishonest and somewhat irrational.

Religion and Adult Stem Cell Research - Explore Stem Cells

http://www.explorestemcells.co.uk/StemCellControversy.html

And another source:

http://www.stemcellresearchnews.com/

Medical writer Michael Fumento sourced how many studies in his article?

The real story is stem cell research today looks at applications from all sources and combines the talents of molecular biologists, developmental and cell biologists, neurobiologists, immunologists and cancer researchers.

http://stemcell.ucsf.edu/

 

[del]

Medical writer Michael Fumento has a handle on some of the reasons most folks imagine that embryonic cell search deserves research funds and media attention...

From his article "Why The Media Miss The Stem-Cell Story:"

1. "There’s little doubt that opponents of embryonic stem cell (ESC) research have their work cut out for them. Polls repeatedly show large majorities (in the 60-70 percent range) want the federal government to promote and fund the research.

2. …the polls often feature loaded questions that begin with tales of the medical miracles ESCs will allegedly bring us: cures for Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, diabetes, you name it….they don’t mention possible alternatives – namely, so-called adult stem cells (ASCs), which are obtained without the ethical conflicts of harvesting human embryos.

3. But the biggest reason may simply be that the mainstream media are doing a lousy job of informing the public on the state of stem-cell science. By and large, they’re telling people all about the potential of ESCs – especially the supposed ability to become any type of cell-without talking about certain little drawbacks, like a tendency for ESCs to be rejected and even to become cancerous.

4. As a science writer who has covered the topic extensively, I know something about this. I see the media coverage practically every day. On rare occasions I’ll find blatant falsehoods: Last August, for example, influential New York Times science writer Gina Kolata told readers "so far, no one has succeeded" in getting adult stem cells to treat diseases. That statement either reveals startling ignorance or is an outright lie: Adult stem cells routinely treat or cure more than 80 different diseases, while no ESC research is anywhere near becoming a human clinical trial.

a. In a recent Washington Monthly piece by Chris Mooney, for example, Weissman claimed there is "no independently verified evidence today" that a non-embryonic stem cell of one type "can turn into another [type of] tissue at all." Sure, that claim is contradicted by countless published, peer-reviewed papers to the contrary, all available at the push of a few keys at the free Internet database PubMed.

5. I talked to a number of stem-cell researchers and the only journalist willing to be interviewed for this story and found a consensus that there’s a strong media bias. What interested me most, though, were their thoughts on how and why that bias comes into play – and the role of factors like attitudes toward religion, manipulation by the pro-ESC lobby, and just plain ignorance and laziness.

6. Many pro-lifers suspect that the media’s pro-ESC bias has to do with their politics on issues like abortion and euthanasia. There may be something to that, but it’s hard to pinpoint. The only major example is a 2001 Newsweek column by Anna Quindlen, who spoke warmly of the prospect that fetal-tissue and ESC treatments could soften public opposition toward abortion, bringing "a certain long-overdue relativism to discussions of abortion across the board."

7. More likely what’s going on involves reporters’ attitudes toward religion-or more precisely, religion in science and public-policy debates. In their minds, ESC backers have a purely scientific motivation while ASC backers have a religious one. Many journalists may see themselves as defending science against religion: They may have missed Galileo’s trial, but by golly they’re here for this one. (That attitude is sometimes seen most clearly outside the mainstream media. In the liberal magazine The American Prospect, for example, Chris Mooney wrote a recent piece sneering at "the Christian right’s new ’science.’ ")

8. As these reporters picture themselves standing for the cause of reason against the forces of dogma, they also don’t realize that the ESC research vocabulary-so filled with "mays" and "coulds" and "one days," promising a miraculous future somewhere down the road-reflects a dogma all its own.

9. Consider Harvard’s Douglas Melton, a diabetes researcher better known for attacking successful ASC efforts than making any real progress on his own with ESCs. He’s one of the most-quoted stem-cell experts in the country, and was named last year’s Policy Leader of the Year for 2004 by the politically correct Scientific American for having "advocated and enabled more extensive studies of embryonic stem cells." But what, precisely, has Melton accomplished toward curing diabetes with ESCs? When interviewed by The Wall Street Journal last year, the most he could say was "We are convinced we can do it. We just don’t know how." That’s not science; that’s faith. But it’s not a religious faith, and so reporters don’t see it for what it is.1

0. The very fact that the science isn’t on their side dictates that the ESC lobby must do something to make up for it – so they work the press, to their benefit. ASC researchers feel much less pressure, often believing success is the best PR – so they neglect the press, to their detriment.

11. In a November 2002 article, Munro lambasted the media for almost never informing "readers that these supposedly disinterested scientists have great financial stakes in the debate." That hasn’t changed. Indeed, a Nexis search this March found over 600 mentions of Weissman and stem cells, but only 23 that included his affiliation with Stem Cells, Inc.; the rest merely associated him with Stanford. There were 344 mentions of Melton and stem cells mentioning his Harvard connection; just two mentioned Curis (and one of those was written by Munro). "Reporters don’t treat scientists as entrepreneurs," says Munro, "and I suspect it has something to do with scientists advertising their affiliation with universities rather than traditional corporations," he says.

12. Which brings out yet another irony. Embryonic stem-cell backers often charge their critics with caring for abstract religious doctrine, not for suffering people. Yet that description arguably may be best suited to many if not most of the ESC advocates themselves. ASC researchers, on the other hand, are almost always practicing physicians. They watch people suffer; they watch them die. They want to help them and to do so as soon as possible.

Read the article at:
Michael Fumento: Why the Media Miss the Stem-Cell Story

What's your agenda PC?

she's hoping to have an original thought some day

 

[PoliticalChic]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

What is your agenda? Posting one sided articles, always offering a partisan take on such diverse fields as history, science and politics without a hint of being balanced, suggests an agenda. And then, typically, defending your post which are the opinion's of others by attacking with sarcasm and an arrogant dismissal of those who question 'your' opinion.

Wry...a careful reading of the Fumento essay would answer most of your query...

1. One should question why so much time, effort, funds should be shunted into the far less successful ESC plans.

2. Once you agree that those of us on the 'right' side are correct, a curious individual should consider that it is not for scientific nor humanitrian reasons that there is such a determined push for ESC.

3. Money, yes. But there is the ideological basis that is so prominent in the campaign of the Left, and the ....allow the characterization of Lenin, the 'useful idiots'...who march in lock step. That is the destruction of traditional values, most closely identified with religion.

To review...a) ESC research gets the most in funds and attention, b) ASC's has the success, c) the dots that should be connected are the Left- abortions- destruction of embryos- anti-religious bias.


If you are up to it, consider a study of the Frankfurt School, to help you with your understanding.
Here, let me give you a headstart...

4. In 1923 Georg Lukacs helped establish a Marxist research center at the University of Frankfurt under the sponsorship of Felix Weil. Like Marx’s benefactor, Friedrich Engels, Weil was the son of a wealthy capitalist and an ardent Marxist who had earned a Ph.D. in political science from Frankfurt University. These rich slackers used family money to fund the Institute for Social Research, best known as the institutional home of the Frankfurt School and critical theory. http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-F...turalMarxismAndPoliticalCorrectness-part2.pdf

a. …the Institute attracted gifted scholars not only in economics but also in philosophy, history, psychology, sociology… convinced that the major impediment to the spread of Marxism was Western culture. In particular, they despised traditional Judeo/Christian ethics and morality, which they believed prevented the widespread acceptance of Marxism.

b. The Frankfurt School propagated a revisionistic Neo-Marxist interpretation of Western culture called Critical Theory, an aggressive promotion of a radical left-wing socio/political agenda. In essence, Critical Theory was a comprehensive and unrelenting assault on the values and institutions of Western civilization. Based on utopian social and political ideals, Critical Theory offered no realistic alternatives, but it was nonetheless a devastating critique of the history, philosophy, politics, social and economic structures, major institutions, and religious foundations of Western civilization.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

What is your agenda? Posting one sided articles, always offering a partisan take on such diverse fields as history, science and politics without a hint of being balanced, suggests an agenda. And then, typically, defending your post which are the opinion's of others by attacking with sarcasm and an arrogant dismissal of those who question 'your' opinion.

Wry...a careful reading of the Fumento essay would answer most of your query...

1. One should question why so much time, effort, funds should be shunted into the far less successful ESC plans.

2. Once you agree that those of us on the 'right' side are correct, a curious individual should consider that it is not for scientific nor humanitrian reasons that there is such a determined push for ESC.

3. Money, yes. But there is the ideological basis that is so prominent in the campaign of the Left, and the ....allow the characterization of Lenin, the 'useful idiots'...who march in lock step. That is the destruction of traditional values, most closely identified with religion.

To review...a) ESC research gets the most in funds and attention, b) ASC's has the success, c) the dots that should be connected are the Left- abortions- destruction of embryos- anti-religious bias.


If you are up to it, consider a study of the Frankfurt School, to help you with your understanding.
Here, let me give you a headstart...

4. In 1923 Georg Lukacs helped establish a Marxist research center at the University of Frankfurt under the sponsorship of Felix Weil. Like Marx’s benefactor, Friedrich Engels, Weil was the son of a wealthy capitalist and an ardent Marxist who had earned a Ph.D. in political science from Frankfurt University. These rich slackers used family money to fund the Institute for Social Research, best known as the institutional home of the Frankfurt School and critical theory. http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-F...turalMarxismAndPoliticalCorrectness-part2.pdf

a. …the Institute attracted gifted scholars not only in economics but also in philosophy, history, psychology, sociology… convinced that the major impediment to the spread of Marxism was Western culture. In particular, they despised traditional Judeo/Christian ethics and morality, which they believed prevented the widespread acceptance of Marxism.

b. The Frankfurt School propagated a revisionistic Neo-Marxist interpretation of Western culture called Critical Theory, an aggressive promotion of a radical left-wing socio/political agenda. In essence, Critical Theory was a comprehensive and unrelenting assault on the values and institutions of Western civilization. Based on utopian social and political ideals, Critical Theory offered no realistic alternatives, but it was nonetheless a devastating critique of the history, philosophy, politics, social and economic structures, major institutions, and religious foundations of Western civilization.

Did you read any of the links I posted at 0629 two posts above? Stem cell research is on-going and research is conducted on all stem cells from all sources. Why do you and others suggest adult sourced stem cells are better than ESC's? Why restrict research? The ethical issues are discussed in the links and should satisfy most objections. Only those with an agenda state, with no facutal basis, that one one source and one source only is the answer; those with advance degrees who contine the quest for discovery don't seem to favor one over another.

The world's population is not divided into left and right; only the fringe sees an entire world in black and white.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What is your agenda, PC? Are you opposed to research on ESC's on religous or ethical reasons? Do you as the nasty one suggests actually believe all research scientists are on the take? Do you know how much research scientists makes? Have you ever written and managed a grant? Do you know grants are offered by government and the private sector? Are you a scientist with an advanced degree (some hold post doctorial ones)?

What is your agenda? Posting one sided articles, always offering a partisan take on such diverse fields as history, science and politics without a hint of being balanced, suggests an agenda. And then, typically, defending your post which are the opinion's of others by attacking with sarcasm and an arrogant dismissal of those who question 'your' opinion.

Wry...a careful reading of the Fumento essay would answer most of your query...

1. One should question why so much time, effort, funds should be shunted into the far less successful ESC plans.

2. Once you agree that those of us on the 'right' side are correct, a curious individual should consider that it is not for scientific nor humanitrian reasons that there is such a determined push for ESC.

3. Money, yes. But there is the ideological basis that is so prominent in the campaign of the Left, and the ....allow the characterization of Lenin, the 'useful idiots'...who march in lock step. That is the destruction of traditional values, most closely identified with religion.

To review...a) ESC research gets the most in funds and attention, b) ASC's has the success, c) the dots that should be connected are the Left- abortions- destruction of embryos- anti-religious bias.


If you are up to it, consider a study of the Frankfurt School, to help you with your understanding.
Here, let me give you a headstart...

4. In 1923 Georg Lukacs helped establish a Marxist research center at the University of Frankfurt under the sponsorship of Felix Weil. Like Marx’s benefactor, Friedrich Engels, Weil was the son of a wealthy capitalist and an ardent Marxist who had earned a Ph.D. in political science from Frankfurt University. These rich slackers used family money to fund the Institute for Social Research, best known as the institutional home of the Frankfurt School and critical theory. http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-F...turalMarxismAndPoliticalCorrectness-part2.pdf

a. …the Institute attracted gifted scholars not only in economics but also in philosophy, history, psychology, sociology… convinced that the major impediment to the spread of Marxism was Western culture. In particular, they despised traditional Judeo/Christian ethics and morality, which they believed prevented the widespread acceptance of Marxism.

b. The Frankfurt School propagated a revisionistic Neo-Marxist interpretation of Western culture called Critical Theory, an aggressive promotion of a radical left-wing socio/political agenda. In essence, Critical Theory was a comprehensive and unrelenting assault on the values and institutions of Western civilization. Based on utopian social and political ideals, Critical Theory offered no realistic alternatives, but it was nonetheless a devastating critique of the history, philosophy, politics, social and economic structures, major institutions, and religious foundations of Western civilization.

Did you read any of the links I posted at 0629 two posts above? Stem cell research is on-going and research is conducted on all stem cells from all sources. Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'? Why restrict research? The ethical issues are discussed in the links and should satisfy most objections. Only those with an agenda state, with no facutal basis, that one source is better than those with advance degrees who contine the quest for discovery.

"Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'?..."


To be clear, then, your premise is that both are equal in efficacy?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wry...a careful reading of the Fumento essay would answer most of your query...

1. One should question why so much time, effort, funds should be shunted into the far less successful ESC plans.

2. Once you agree that those of us on the 'right' side are correct, a curious individual should consider that it is not for scientific nor humanitrian reasons that there is such a determined push for ESC.

3. Money, yes. But there is the ideological basis that is so prominent in the campaign of the Left, and the ....allow the characterization of Lenin, the 'useful idiots'...who march in lock step. That is the destruction of traditional values, most closely identified with religion.

To review...a) ESC research gets the most in funds and attention, b) ASC's has the success, c) the dots that should be connected are the Left- abortions- destruction of embryos- anti-religious bias.


If you are up to it, consider a study of the Frankfurt School, to help you with your understanding.
Here, let me give you a headstart...

4. In 1923 Georg Lukacs helped establish a Marxist research center at the University of Frankfurt under the sponsorship of Felix Weil. Like Marx’s benefactor, Friedrich Engels, Weil was the son of a wealthy capitalist and an ardent Marxist who had earned a Ph.D. in political science from Frankfurt University. These rich slackers used family money to fund the Institute for Social Research, best known as the institutional home of the Frankfurt School and critical theory. http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-F...turalMarxismAndPoliticalCorrectness-part2.pdf

a. …the Institute attracted gifted scholars not only in economics but also in philosophy, history, psychology, sociology… convinced that the major impediment to the spread of Marxism was Western culture. In particular, they despised traditional Judeo/Christian ethics and morality, which they believed prevented the widespread acceptance of Marxism.

b. The Frankfurt School propagated a revisionistic Neo-Marxist interpretation of Western culture called Critical Theory, an aggressive promotion of a radical left-wing socio/political agenda. In essence, Critical Theory was a comprehensive and unrelenting assault on the values and institutions of Western civilization. Based on utopian social and political ideals, Critical Theory offered no realistic alternatives, but it was nonetheless a devastating critique of the history, philosophy, politics, social and economic structures, major institutions, and religious foundations of Western civilization.

Did you read any of the links I posted at 0629 two posts above? Stem cell research is on-going and research is conducted on all stem cells from all sources. Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'? Why restrict research? The ethical issues are discussed in the links and should satisfy most objections. Only those with an agenda state, with no facutal basis, that one source is better than those with advance degrees who contine the quest for discovery.

"Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'?..."


To be clear, then, your premise is that both are equal in efficacy?

My premise? How the hell would I know which is the most effective? I took basic Chem, physics and biology in college - bone head courses required to graduate.

Of course I read on many subjects, and when I dabble in scientific matters I do so with a dictionary close at hand. An open mind is the greatest gift of all, let the researchers decide for the fields of molecular biologists, developmental and cell biologists, neurobiologists, immunologists and cancer researchers are abstruse. I trust that research is peer reviewed, transparent and done with the spirit of an adventurer seeking a eureka moment.

Not everyone has a hidden agenda.

 

[konradv]

Konny, did the Alchemist Union bribe you to post this???

I'm disappointed. Expected more than a non-response. Is that how Rep is earned?

There are volumes in that response,...if only you understood what the Alchemists were....

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

 

[konradv]

"Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'?..."


To be clear, then, your premise is that both are equal in efficacy?

NO, the premise is that we don't know yet and it's way to early to abandon the research. It seems an odd thing for a conservative to say, "lets not do it because it looks too hard and it's taking too long"!!!

 

[Wry Catcher]

"Why do you and others suggest adult sources stem cells are better than ESC'?..."


To be clear, then, your premise is that both are equal in efficacy?

NO, the premise is that we don't know yet and it's way to early to abandon the research. It seems an odd thing for a conservative to say, "lets not do it because it looks too hard and it's taking too long"!!!

I believe her argument is faith based and an example of her obsessions, for clearly it is much more difficult to prove something understudy is doomed to fail; such is the stuff of circular arguments.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm disappointed. Expected more than a non-response. Is that how Rep is earned?

There are volumes in that response,...if only you understood what the Alchemists were....

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are volumes in that response,...if only you understood what the Alchemists were....

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

I think del characterized you and your game very well, PC. ("she's hoping to have an original thought some day")

 

[whitehall]

Think about it the way the Germans did back in the 30's. Why waste all those little corpses when you can use them as research tools? The absolute bottom line is that there is no evidence that embryonic stem cell research will lead to any breakthroughs in medical science. Some researchers say adult stem cells are just as viable. Go ahead and do the research, opponents of embryonic stem cell research simply don't want taxpayer money used to fund the abortion industry and related fields. People have been inundated by pro-abortion propaganda for years. Abortion proponents had that poor actor gasping for breath while he claimed that embrionic stem cell research would result in him walking again. Hollywood even did a creepy montage showing him staggering around like a zombie. Actor Mike Fox told Americans that embryonic stem cell research would cure his Parkensons disease. They were bald faced lies.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

I think del characterized you and your game very well, PC. ("she's hoping to have an original thought some day")

No, actually, you don't.

But you've run out of any arguments that would allow you to obviate the essence of the thread, i.e. that the are no good reasons to keep spending the time and funds on a failed technology....

... and there is the fear that it is, in reality, an ideology that is behind your less-than- thought-through assertions.

Take a chance...study the evolution of Marxism up to and through the Frankfurt School, and its insertion into the American mind via the universities....
...and you will see how many dots it connects.

Of course, you will lose all of your Liberal friends....but: courage! Courage!

 

[Wry Catcher]

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

I think del characterized you and your game very well, PC. ("she's hoping to have an original thought some day")

No, actually, you don't.

But you've run out of any arguments that would allow you to obviate the essence of the thread, i.e. that the are no good reasons to keep spending the time and funds on a failed technology....

... and there is the fear that it is, in reality, an ideology that is behind your less-than- thought-through assertions.

Take a chance...study the evolution of Marxism up to and through the Frankfurt School, and its insertion into the American mind via the universities....
...and you will see how many dots it connects.

Of course, you will lose all of your Liberal friends....but: courage! Courage!

Classic Red Herring, notice the evolution of PC's posts, partway through the thread, PC goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader from what's really at stake and she never returns to the original issue.

Notice who is in company with PC, Whitehall, though s/he is simply a parrot who clearly has no idea about the subject, s/he uses a trite ad hominem, suggesting those who support research are Nazi's.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think del characterized you and your game very well, PC. ("she's hoping to have an original thought some day")

No, actually, you don't.

But you've run out of any arguments that would allow you to obviate the essence of the thread, i.e. that the are no good reasons to keep spending the time and funds on a failed technology....

... and there is the fear that it is, in reality, an ideology that is behind your less-than- thought-through assertions.

Take a chance...study the evolution of Marxism up to and through the Frankfurt School, and its insertion into the American mind via the universities....
...and you will see how many dots it connects.

Of course, you will lose all of your Liberal friends....but: courage! Courage!

Classic Red Herring, notice the evolution of PC's posts, partway through the thread, PC goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader from what's really at stake and she never returns to the original issue.

Notice who is in company with PC, Whitehall, though s/he is simply a parrot who clearly has no idea about the subject, s/he uses a trite ad hominem, suggesting those who support research are Nazi's.

Trying to broaden your horizons, Wry...help you to bat away the left-wing cob-webs...

I fully understand your reticence...your fear that everything that you've bought like it was on sale, might be false..

But, take care, you give the appearance of spinning out of control...
see: "...goes off on a tangent, raising a side issue that distracts the reader..."


Not a tangent, as in irrelevant, but a tangent that give the dispositive note on the discussion.
And as far as "...distracts the reader..." why would you think that others cannot hold several thoughts in their mind...
...unless this is autobiographical.

 

[konradv]

There are volumes in that response,...if only you understood what the Alchemists were....

If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway, another "strawman" argument? If that's what you consider ESC researchers, then you're being intellectually dishonest and a waste of time to argue with. There's volumes in your posts too, i.e. "hell with the science, we're making a political point here". Like the AGW deniers, the science is just a smokescreen to fool the uninitiated.

"If you only understood that I don't care. What do alchemists have to do with this anyway...."

There are different levels of erudition required for different games....the one required for this thread is one which you have not yet acquired.

Now, don't be disappointed...your time in will be counted toward your retirement.

Yeah, yeah, you're just too samrt for the room, right. I'm afraid you're merely a legend in your own mind. I know very well what you're saying and reject it categorically. It doesn't meet the logic test. Just because something is difficult and seems to be taking longer than thought, doesn't make it impossible. The alchemist charge is a smokescreen in that there's no real relationship between what they were attempting and stem cell research.