The Purpose Behind the Push for Electric Vehicles

[westwall]

I'm not saying mechanical fuel injection doesn't exist. I'm saying that all modern cars use computer controlled fuel injection. And have for at least a decade.

Which is what makes this conspiracy so silly. As 'they' are trying to get us to use EVs so they can 'get' what they already have: chips in every new car.

And I am saying they can all be removed. The electronic systems allow for very fine control, with virtually no lag time so that cars are more efficient and less polluting. If a person wants to, they can remove ALL of that and settle on a vehicle that can drive, it just won't get optimal gas mileage across the board. You can still optimize for fuel mileage based on your altitude, and useage.

 

[Skylar]

And I am saying they can all be removed. The electronic systems allow for very fine control, with virtually no lag time so that cars are more efficient and less polluting. If a person wants to, they can remove ALL of that and settle on a vehicle that can drive, it just won't get optimal gas mileage across the board. You can still optimize for fuel mileage based on your altitude, and useage.

The fuel injection systems in cars are computer controlled. They simply don't work without the computer chip as their built. Could you completely rebuild the fuel injection system replacing it with a mechanical system, tear out the flywheel controls for most automatic transmissions, hand code the electrical control system, tear out the control by wire for steering and brakes, essentially remaking the entire car's control system, electrical system, breaking system, steering and transmission control system from the ground up?

Sure. It would take months, is enormously complicated and would cost more than the car is worth. But it can be done. However.....

If complete rebuilds are your standard, you could reprogram a old cell phone, meticulously hand coding it to act as a control chip for an electric car too with similar time and less expense. Hell, give it a few weeks there would be youtube videos or torrents showing you how to do this in about a day. Most control chips in cars are system specific and FAR less complicated than a cell phone or cheap computer.

Or....you could simply disconnect the electric car's cell tower and wireless connections in about 15 minutes......obliterating this entire silly conspiracy in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee. With no wireless connection to 'turn it off', you'd have to hard wire into the car's control system. Which means you'd need to be standing next to the car. A threat deftly thwarted by one of our newest inventions:

A garage door.

This entire conspiracy is stupid. Layers of stupid. Layers of pointless. Layers of silly. As the entire premise is to prevent something that is already there.

 

[westwall]

The fuel injection systems in cars are computer controlled. They simply don't work without the computer chip as their built. Could you completely rebuild the fuel injection system replacing it with a mechanical system, tear out the flywheel controls for most automatic transmissions, hand code the electrical control system, tear out the control by wire for steering and brakes, essentially remaking the entire car's control system, electrical system, breaking system, steering and transmission control system from the ground up?

Sure. It would take months, is enormously complicated and would cost more than the car is worth. But it can be done. However.....

If complete rebuilds are your standard, you could reprogram a old cell phone, meticulously hand coding it to act as a control chip for an electric car too with similar time and less expense. Hell, give it a few weeks there would be youtube videos or torrents showing you how to do this in about a day. Most control chips in cars are system specific and FAR less complicated than a cell phone or cheap computer.

Or....you could simply disconnect the electric car's cell tower and wireless connections in about 15 minutes......obliterating this entire silly conspiracy in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee. With no wireless connection to 'turn it off', you'd have to hard wire into the car's control system. Which means you'd need to be standing next to the car. A threat deftly thwarted by one of our newest inventions:

A garage door.

This entire conspiracy is stupid. Layers of stupid. Layers of pointless. Layers of silly. As the entire premise is to prevent something that is already there.

I was not addressing the EV conspiracy, I was addressing YOUR claims that ICE powered vehicles are just as vulnerable as EV's. They aren't.

 

[Skylar]

I was not addressing the EV conspiracy, I was addressing YOUR claims that ICE powered vehicles are just as vulnerable as EV's. They aren't.

There's nothing easy about the complete fuel injection system, transmission control, steering and brake controls and electrical controls that your proposing for ICE engines. Its *ludicrously* complicated, time consuming and hideously expensive.

Disconnecting all wireless connections on your EV takes 15 minutes. And prevents the entire, stupid conspiracy.

 

[westwall]

There's nothing easy about the complete fuel injection system, transmission control, steering and brake controls and electrical controls that your proposing for ICE engines. Its *ludicrously* complicated, time consuming and hideously expensive.

Disconnecting all wireless connections on your EV takes 15 minutes. And prevents the entire, stupid conspiracy.

Actually, it is. Most of those systems don't need electronic interface period. Braking is a very simple system, the anti lock brake system is what would be affected. No big deal. The fuel, transmission, and ignition are all tied together in a common system, remove the electronics for one, and you remove them for all. You have no clue what you are talking about.

It would take a day to remove all electronic interference from the braking system, and about a week, to a week and a half for the rest. A simple electric fuel pump can do the job if you can't find a mechanical one, but there are no chips involved, it is merely a motor.

 

[dblack]

But as we’ve seen with most conspiracies they end up fact.

I'll just stop you right there and raise the bullshit alert. Most conspiracy theories are ridiculous, paranoid bullshit.

The purpose of everyone having an EV is they’re 100% software driven. Soon every EV, if they don’t already, will have a chip in it that prevents it from being turned on.

They could just as easily put such a chip in a gas engine car.

This is not a good conspiracy theory, even by whacky conspiracy theory standards.

 

[Skylar]

Actually, it is. Most of those systems don't need electronic interface period. Braking is a very simple system, the anti lock brake system is what would be affected. No big deal. The fuel, transmission, and ignition are all tied together in a common system, remove the electronics for one, and you remove them for all. You have no clue what you are talking about.

It would take a day to remove all electronic interference from the braking system, and about a week, to a week and a half for the rest. A simple electric fuel pump can do the job if you can't find a mechanical one, but there are no chips involved, it is merely a motor.

Nonsense.

You'd need to replace the entire fuel injection system as computer controlled models can't operate solely on mechanical motion in the engine. They use sensors to trigger the computer controlled injection, not mechanical motion. Eliminate the control chip....and the sensors don't work. And there's no mechanical connection between the fuel injection system and the rest of the engine that could be used to trigger a computer controlled fuel injection system. And that's just sensor triggering.

The entire fuel injection system would be a brick. As again, it uses the control chip to initiate a fuel injection cycle with each reset piston. Without working sensors,, the chip wouldn't know when to trigger. Without a chip, there'd be nothing to do the triggering.

And that's just the fuel injection system.

The flywheel controls in the transmission would need to be modified for virtually every automatic transmission made in the last 10 years.Which would require the entire disassembly of the automatic transmission, running into many of the same sensor issues, this time measuring torque. No working sensors, no chip to process the data or trigger gear changes....none of it would work without a huge rebuild. As the computer chip is what determines when the gear transitions occur.

And if someone at the airshow told you that disassembling and rebuilding a transmission is 'easy', they're completely full of shit.

Then there are the control by wire systems for steering. And the control by wire system for braking, both of which are computer controlled. You'd need to replace both with manual cables, rebuilding the breaking and steering control systems. And it would work like shit without a complete replacement of the steering assembly and brakes.....as you're replacing computer controlled hydrolic pressure with whatever you can manage pushing down on the pedal.

The only part of this that would plausibly 'easy' would be electrical control systems.....assuming you didn't want something like a working dash board, speedometer, tail or running lights. But you could connect the distributor and alternator to the battery easily enough. 2 days tops to redo the car's electrical system.


OR!


You can spend 15 minutes physically disconnecting the wireless hardware in an EV.....and obliterate the entire silly conspiracy.

 

[westwall]

Nonsense.

You'd need to replace the entire fuel injection system as computer controlled models can't operate solely on mechanical motion in the engine. They use sensors to trigger the computer controlled injection, not mechanical motion. Eliminate the control chip....and the sensors don't work. And there's no mechanical connection between the fuel injection system and the rest of the engine that could be used to trigger a computer controlled fuel injection system. And that's just sensor triggering.

The entire fuel injection system would be a brick. As again, it uses the control chip to initiate a fuel injection cycle with each reset piston. Without working sensors,, the chip wouldn't know when to trigger. Without a chip, there'd be nothing to do the triggering.

And that's just the fuel injection system.

The flywheel controls in the transmission would need to be modified for virtually every automatic transmission made in the last 10 years.Which would require the entire disassembly of the automatic transmission, running into many of the same sensor issues, this time measuring torque. No working sensors, no chip to process the data or trigger gear changes....none of it would work without a huge rebuild. As the computer chip is what determines when the gear transitions occur.

And if someone at the airshow told you that disassembling and rebuilding a transmission is 'easy', they're completely full of shit.

Then there are the control by wire systems for steering. And the control by wire system for braking, both of which are computer controlled. You'd need to replace both with manual cables, rebuilding the breaking and steering control systems. And it would work like shit without a complete replacement of the steering assembly and brakes.....as you're replacing computer controlled hydrolic pressure with whatever you can manage pushing down on the pedal.

The only part of this that would plausibly 'easy' would be electrical control systems.....assuming you didn't want something like a working dash board, speedometer, tail or running lights. But you could connect the distributor and alternator to the battery easily enough. 2 days tops to redo the car's electrical system.


OR!


You can spend 15 minutes physically disconnecting the wireless hardware in an EV.....and obliterate the entire silly conspiracy.

We take entire airplanes apart in an hour and a half. I rebuilt my T90 transmission in my Jeep in two hours.

People who do that work for a living are very fast. We have the knowledge, and the special tools to do anything.

I have built three airplanes from the ground up.

You?

Which do you think is more complex, a jet race plane, or a car?

 

[Skylar]

We take entire airplanes apart in an hour and a half. I rebuilt my T90 transmission in my Jeep in two hours.

People who do that work for a living are very fast. We have the knowledge, and the special tools to do anything.

I have built three airplanes from the ground up.

You?

Which do you think is more complex, a jet race plane, or a car?

And we're not talking about planes. We're talking about modern cars. If you think you're going to replace an entire fuel injection system, disassemble and rebuild a transmission, replace the control by wire systems for a car's steering and braking system and rewire and replace its electrical control system..... in an hour and a half?

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Just physically disconnect the wireless components in the EV and put this silly, stupid little conspiracy to bed. It takes 15 minutes, tops

 

[westwall]

And we're not talking about planes. We're talking about modern cars. If you think you're going to replace an entire fuel injection system, disassemble and rebuild a transmission, replace the control by wire systems for a car's steering and braking system and rewire and replace its electrical control system..... in an hour and a half?

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Just physically disconnect the wireless components in the EV and put this silly, stupid little conspiracy to bed. It takes 15 minutes, tops

Dude, you have no clue. I rebuild aircraft clocks for fun. Look up what they look like inside.

There are hundreds of thousands of people like me who build things. There are millions of people, like you, who buy what we build.

And I said the transmission and ignition work would take a week and a half.

Not months.

 

[Skylar]

Dude, you have no clue. I rebuild aircraft clocks for fun. Look up what they look like inside.

There are hundreds of thousands of people like me who build things. There are millions of people, like you, who buy what we build.

And I said the transmission and ignition work would take a week and a half.

Not months.

You clearly haven't rebuilt or worked on modern cars. As your conception of 'easy' is multi system task that would take months and cost more than the car is worth.

Its not easy to make a car that runs on interdependant computerized control systems to without them. Its wildly complicated, hideously expensive and very time consuming. You'd have to replace your entire fuel injection system, rebuild your transmission, replace the control by wire systems in your steering and brakes and remake your electric control system.

This silly conspiracy that 'they' want EVs so 'they' can have chips in your car is stupid and pointless. As 'they' already have chips in your car. And contrary to your empty assurances that its 'easy' (er, because you worked on a plane?), it would be a massive rebuild of the car taking an individual months to complete and tens of thousands of dollars. Assuming the parts are even available.

Do you know where to buy a fuel injection system for a 2021 Toyota Camry that neither Toyota nor its part supplies make that doesn't use Toyota's computer control systems and is triggered exclusively by mechanical motion of the engine? I don't. You'd probably have to have that custom designed, CNC milled and hand finished. That alone is a 5 figure project.

And that's if you're already a master mechanic. I wouldn't try to rebuild a modern automatic transmission if someone put a gun to my head. It requires diagnistic and timing tools that I couldn't possibly afford. To say nothing of the extremely specialized training.....which almost no one has.

The fact that the wireless components in an EV (and an ICE vehicle too for that matter) could be disconnected in a quarter of an hour only emphasizes the silliness of this entire 'they' conspiracy.

As the conspiracy is completely unnecessary.

 

[westwall]

You clearly haven't rebuilt or worked on modern cars. As your conception of 'easy' is multi system task that would take months and cost more than the car is worth.

Its not easy to make a car that runs on interdependant computerized control systems to without them. Its wildly complicated, hideously expensive and very time consuming. You'd have to replace your entire fuel injection system, rebuild your transmission, replace the control by wire systems in your steering and brakes and remake your electric control system.

This silly conspiracy that 'they' want EVs so 'they' can have chips in your car is stupid and pointless. As 'they' already have chips in your car. And contrary to your empty assurances that its 'easy' (er, because you worked on a plane?), it would be a massive rebuild of the car taking an individual months to complete and tens of thousands of dollars.

And that's if you're already a master mechanic. I wouldn't try to rebuild a modern automatic transmission if someone put a gun to my head. It requires diagnistic and timing tools that I couldn't possibly afford. To say nothing of the extremely specialized training.

The fact that the wireless components in an EV (and an ICE vehicle too for that matter) could be disconnected in a quarter of an hour only emphasizes the silliness of this entire 'they' conspiracy.

As the conspiracy is completely unnecessary.

You are wrong on all counts. And for the second time I am only addressing your idiotic claim about replacing the electronic components in an ICE powered vehicle.

The instrument panel in an airplane alone, is orders of magnitude more complex than ANY automobile on the planet.

Like I said, you simply have no clue because you aren't a tool user. You are merely a consumer with no idea how things are built.

 

[Skylar]

You are wrong on all counts. And for the second time I am only addressing your idiotic claim about replacing the electronic components in an ICE powered vehicle.

The instrument panel in an airplane alone, is orders of magnitude more complex than ANY automobile on the planet.

Like I said, you simply have no clue because you aren't a tool user. You are merely a consumer with no idea how things are built.

Again, nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about. You have no relevant experience working on modern cars. And in your ignorance, you assuming everything is easy. Its not.

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Because you're living it.

I know my limitations. I know how parts of what you're describing are beyond my ability because I've worked on these cars. I wouldn't touch an automatic transmission, for example. Its too specialized. I wouldn't try to CAD or CNC a mechanically triggered fuel injection system either. But to you, its all easy, huh?

And where would you get these parts? Are there even after market fuel injection systems for common modern makes and models that AREN'T computer controlled and exclusively trigger on the mechanical motion of the engine?

How would you modify the flywheels and torque sensors of an automatic transmission to make them run without the computer control they were designed for? You *might* be able to replace them with a manual version, but you'd be replacing the entire transmission. And of course you'd have to start cutting up the car to put in a clutch and shifter.

Do you have any idea how hard that is, how expensive and how time consuming it would be to convert an automatic transmission to a manual?

Of course not. In your ignorance, its all 'easy'.

In reality, its not.

 

[BothWings]

Electric cars are just a new way to make money. That's it. End of story. The environmental argument is just a way of shaming some people into buying it. Shaming is the new way of salesmanship. The pop culture market is full of bizarre and wacky new concepts and ideas...which have very little practical value in spite of how they are made to look progressive and innovative. People are rewarded for their choice by being told that they are somehow the next step in human evolution, and those who dont take the bait are shamed into feeling like they're holding the world back from progress.

Technology is becoming more sophisticated at an exponential rate...but too many manufacturers are producing some products for no other reason that they simply CAN. So many people want to be the first to try it...and yet it really doesn't make life easier for them. They become bogged down with technicalities like upgrades, proprietary parts, apps, subscriptions, available maintenance, etc...where with anything electronic or computer based the consumer can be strung along indefinitely if he wants to continue using that product. It also doesn't make the world a cleaner place trading petroleum for lithium. Lithium is hazardous stuff. Electricity is mostly produced by fossil fuels so the output of generating plants will have to be increased thus increasing their consumption of fossil fuels in order to charge all the electric cars that people will be buying. Every effort is made by advertisers to make sure the consumer's concept of this bigger picture is cut short, and that he should somehow be ashamed for not endorsing the latest tech.

 

[westwall]

Again, nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about. You have no relevant experience working on modern cars. And in your ignorance, you assuming everything is easy. Its not.

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Because you're living it.

I know my limitations. I know how parts of what you're describing are beyond my ability because I've worked on these cars. I wouldn't touch an automatic transmission, for example. Its too specialized. I wouldn't try to CAD or CNC a mechanically triggered fuel injection system either. But to you, its all easy, huh?

And where would you get these parts? Are there even after market fuel injection systems for common modern makes and models that AREN'T computer controlled and exclusively trigger on the mechanical motion of the engine?

How would you modify the flywheels and torque sensors of an automatic transmission to make them run without the computer control they were designed for? You *might* be able to replace them with a manual version, but you'd be replacing the entire transmission. And of course you'd have to start cutting up the car to put in a clutch and shifter.

Do you have any idea how hard that is, how expensive and how time consuming it would be to convert an automatic transmission to a manual?

Of course not. In your ignorance, its all 'easy'.

In reality, its not.

All of the parts can be modified from existing old parts. You talk like a bean counter, and a incompetent one at that.

There is huge gulf of skills between you, a pencil pusher, and people like me.

We DO things. You don't.

You remind me of the NASA engineers who all said Feynman was wrong about why the fuel tank exploded. Over and over they said no.

Then he demonstrated it on live TV and shut them up.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Skylar]

Electric cars are just a new way to make money. That's it. End of story. The environmental argument is just a way of shaming some people into buying it. Shaming is the new way of salesmanship. The pop culture market is full of bizarre and wacky new concepts and ideas...which have very little practical value in spite of how they are made to look progressive and innovative. People are rewarded for their choice by being told that they are somehow the next step in human evolution, and those who dont take the bait are shamed into feeling like they're holding the world back from progress.

Technology is becoming more sophisticated at an exponential rate...but too many manufacturers are producing some products for no other reason that they simply CAN. So many people want to be the first to try it...and yet it really doesn't make life easier for them. They become bogged down with technicalities like upgrades, proprietary parts, apps, subscriptions, available maintenance, etc...where with anything electronic or computer based the consumer can be strung along indefinitely if he wants to continue using that product. It also doesn't make the world a cleaner place trading petroleum for lithium. Lithium is hazardous stuff. Electricity is mostly produced by fossil fuels so the output of generating plants will have to be increased thus increasing their consumption of fossil fuels in order to charge all the electric cars that people will be buying. Every effort is made by advertisers to make sure the consumer's concept of this bigger picture is cut short, and that he should somehow be ashamed for not endorsing the latest tech.

Most yes....but by an increasingly smaller majority. 61% last time I checked. And decreasing.

Where as 100% of ICE cars run on fossil fuels.

 

[Skylar]

All of the parts can be modified from existing old parts. You talk like a bean counter, and a incompetent one at that.

I talk like a person who has enough experience to know how hard this is. And lacks the confidence of 'ease' that comes from people that have never actually done it.

To someone like yourself, with no relevant experience...its all easy. To someone like myself, with plenty of relevant experience, this not only difficult, there are parts of the conversion to 100% non-computer controlled I wouldn't touch. Its too specialized. The automatic transmission for example is beyond me.

But to you....its cake. Sure, you've never done before, but you've got it all figured out! The folks with the least experience are the one's with the most confidence.

Dunning-Kruger is your name-o!

And all of the parts can be modified from existing old parts....says who? Let me guess again...the guy who has never made any relevant modification to any modern vehicle? How many times have you replaced the computerized fuel injection system on a 2020 Subaru Outback with an 'older part' to somehow make it completely mechanically driven?

Zero?

Okay, let me try a simpler question Which 'older part' would you use to do this and how? Specifically.

No, go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[westwall]

I talk like a person who has enough experience to know how hard this is. And lacks the confidence of 'ease' that comes from people that have never actually done it.

To someone like yourself, with no relevant experience...its all easy. To someone like myself, with plenty of relevant experience, this not only difficult, there are parts of the conversion to 100% non-computer controlled I wouldn't touch. Its too specialized. The automatic transmission for example is beyond me.

But to you....its cake. Sure, you've never done before, but you've got it all figured out! The folks with the least experience are the one's with the most confidence.

Dunning-Kruger is your name-o!

And all of the parts can be modified from existing old parts....says who? Let me guess again...the guy who has never made any relevant modification to any modern vehicle? How many times have you replaced the computerized fuel injection system on a 2020 Subaru Outback with an 'older part' to somehow make it completely mechanically driven?

Zero?

Okay, let me try a simpler question Which 'older part' would you use to do this and how? Specifically.

No, go ahead. I'll wait.

Which job. Specifically.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

I’ll deny a Leftard mod the satisfaction of dumping this in the conspiracy forum and just lay it here. But as we’ve seen with most conspiracies they end up fact.

The purpose of everyone having an EV is they’re 100% software driven. Soon every EV, if they don’t already, will have a chip in it that prevents it from being turned on.

So whenever the government doesn’t want you getting about, whether a flu bug or an election, flip the switch.

Nobody’s going anywhere.

Absolutely. It's always about control.