Gunny
Gold Member
Mariner said:GunnyL, that Bush knew perfectly well that there would be looting and an insurgency made up of 100s of new groups? That he was quite comfortable with the idea of 160,000 U.S. troops remaining in the country 3 years later at a monthly cost of $6 billion? That he predicted his disapproval ratings about the war would climb over 60%, but didn't care?
Come on, admit that he was clueless.
Mariner
By the way, today's New York Times has a good piece on torture in China. If being cruel to your citizens is our new threshold for invading, then we'd better get ready to start a new war with a bigger foe. Of course, we can't invade them, because they might really fight back, and because we depend on them to buy $4 billion a month of our treasury bonds in order to keep us from going bankrupt, under Tax and Borrow Republicanomics. In other words, we borrow from one torturer to finance our war on another.
Torture Is 'Widespread' in China, U.N. Investigator Says
By JOSEPH KAHN
Published: December 3, 2005
BEIJING, Dec. 2 - A high-level United Nations investigator condemned the "widespread" use of torture in Chinese law enforcement and said Beijing must overhaul its criminal laws, grant more power to judges and abolish labor camps before it can end such abuses, according to a summary of his findings released Friday.
The investigation, by Manfred Nowak, the special rapporteur of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, noted some progress by Chinese officials in reducing violence against prisoners since the country signed an international covenant banning torture in 1988.
But Mr. Nowak said that "obtaining confessions" and fighting "deviant behavior" continued to be central goals of China's criminal justice system. The police and prison guards are pushed to extract admissions of guilt and are rarely punished for using electric shock, sleep deprivation and submersion in water or sewage, among other techniques the Commission on Human Rights considers torture, to obtain them, he said.
I cannot and do not speak for President Bush. Unlike you, I don't presume to put words in his mouth, nor apply my motives to his actions.
It was common knowledge throughout the military that the various religious/ethnic factions in Iraq would run amock. I'm sure someone mentioned it to Bush.
Compare your cost analysis up there to how much it cost to babysit Saddam's borders for 13 years. Please try to not forget the logistics -- travel to and from, provisions and maintenance for ships/planes ..... maintaining bases halfway around the world. Oh, and don't forget, military personnel in the Gulf region don't pay FICA.
And of course, had we not invaded, that tab would STILL be running.
Just thought I'd add a little perspective your one-sided version of events.
As far as your kaka on torutre goes ..... I don't care what the UN nor the rest of the world thinks of how we do business, and I have little-to-no sympathy for terrorists and could care less what fate befalls them.
And I really don't care what the Chinese are doing internally, at the moment.