The Power of Prayer

[Book of Jeremiah]

SATURDAY, MARCH 3, 2012
Lord, Teach Us To Pray! Part 3

Introduction continued...

The Bible has much to say on the topic of prayer. Although you can’t get a degree in prayer from any theological seminary, although you can’t major in prayer at any university, the Bible speaks more of prayer than it does about being a pastor, a preacher or an evangelist.

If it is true, and you can calculate the worth of a man by the number of his enemies, then we can just as readily calculate the worth of prayer by the vitriolic hatred the enemy has towards it. The devil hates a praying Christian. He hates a praying Christian, because he fears a praying Christian, and he fears a praying Christian because a praying Christian is one who has come to the knowledge of how paramount prayer is in their life. The devil knows that prayer works!

There is power in prayer, and the devil knows this better than most Christians today. It’s not because he’s got nothing better to do that the enemy is constantly attempting to distract believers from prayer, it’s not because he’s got nothing better to do that he is constantly attempting to stifle the prayer lives of the saints, it’s because he knows the power that resides in the effective, fervent prayer of the righteous.

The spiritual health of an individual or a congregation can be determined by the importance they place on their prayer life, and the time they devote to prayer. The instant a church ceases to pray, it begins to die. The instant a believer ceases to pray, their heart begins to grow cold toward the things of God, the lines of communication having been severed.

No man can work for God without first having spent time with Him. No man can walk in authority, no man can do great and mighty works through the power of the Holy Spirit, no man can rightly divide the gospel, and no man can preach the whole counsel of God, without having an established, vibrant, and ongoing life of prayer.

To the true believer, a prayer life becomes second nature, yet perpetually fresh, and new and strengthening. By second nature, I do not mean habitual in the sense of repeating the same tired words over and over again, but rather as much of an extension of the individual as hearing, or seeing or breathing in the physical.

We see the end result of the absence of prayer in today’s church more vividly than ever before during the history of mankind. Because we have strayed from prayer, because we have replaced prayer with other things, our sermons lack conviction, our teachings lack power, our worship lacks fire, and seeing as we make no headway in bringing the lost into the household of faith, we resort to worldly means and methods by which to attract them to the house of God.

Without prayer, we can be neither effective nor efficient in the work of the Kingdom of God.

Yes, diplomas and accolades provide a cold sort of comfort to some, having a title before their name keeps others drudging along attempting to break up the same fallowed ground, but true power, true conviction, true fire, true passion is sorely lacking in the hearts of a great many spiritual luminaries today.

Prayer is a force; it is a divine fire, which the enemy attempts to put out every time such a fire is ignited and takes on proportions. The enemy knows that if the fire of prayer is allowed to spread, it will burn away duplicity, it will burn away hypocrisy, it will burn away selfishness, it will burn away the desire for the things of this earth, and the only thing that will remain, the only thing that will survive the flame is a pure and spotless desire for all of God in our lives.

The attacks on praying Christians and praying congregations are vicious and merciless, the enemy doing everything in his power to distract from prayer, or cause the individual to lose his focus and become bogged down by other things.

I’ve heard countless stories of prayer groups getting together weekly, crying out to God, beginning to see the power of God made manifest in their lives only to get sidetracked, distracted, and diverted to doing other things, or squabbling among themselves over issues they later deemed as irrelevant.

Begin to pray consistently, begin to pray fervently, then when the attacks come, and they will come, have the presence of mind to identify it as an attack of the enemy and rebuke it.

Homeward Bound Lord Teach Us To Pray Part 3

 

[featherlite]

Prayer works in expected, incredible ways. Im sure some could find a logical reason for it, Ive tried and Ive sometimes thought it was a waste of time. Its not.

. but its not like google, you wont get a load of options 20 seconds.

I was just reading through this thread.
that should have said...in UNexpected ways.
forever the typo queen I am.

 

[Campbell]

John Mulinde delivers this message to the Body of Christ on the subject of "Desperate Prayer." There is nothing more important than our prayer lives. Satan does not mind if the church involves itself in acts of charity, programs, building projects, social gatherings but when the people seek holiness, repentance, prayer and fasting? All of hell goes on alert to stop it. Why? Because the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much with God. The power of Prayer is unlimited. Prayer changes us. Prayer changes everything. It is prayer that moves the hand of God.

It is written:

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayers that is made in this place.
2 Chronicles 7:14,15

When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially disabled for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticized and spread. The afflicted usually lasted a year after that at the most.

Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were
crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the afflicted suffered and died anyway. Where was the invisible man in the sky?

Now the average life expectancy of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the electronic spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, echocardiogram, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catherization procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about? Did anything the prayer group did have any effect at all?

A short while back one of my high school mates about 79 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion. The prayers must have worked on that one.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

John Mulinde delivers this message to the Body of Christ on the subject of "Desperate Prayer." There is nothing more important than our prayer lives. Satan does not mind if the church involves itself in acts of charity, programs, building projects, social gatherings but when the people seek holiness, repentance, prayer and fasting? All of hell goes on alert to stop it. Why? Because the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much with God. The power of Prayer is unlimited. Prayer changes us. Prayer changes everything. It is prayer that moves the hand of God.

It is written:

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayers that is made in this place.
2 Chronicles 7:14,15

When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially disabled for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticized and spread. The afflicted usually lasted a year after that at the most.

Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were
crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the afflicted suffered and died anyway. Where was the invisible man in the sky?

Now the average life expectancy of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the electronic spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, echocardiogram, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catherization procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about? Did anything the prayer group did have any effect at all?

A short while back one of my high school mates about 79 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion. The prayers must have worked on that one.

In another post you mentioned that you were Catholic? That's where your trouble is. I used to be Roman Catholic too and God never answered any of my prayers in that place either. How could He? I wasn't praying to Him. I was praying to a "another Jesus" - based on the Babylonian religion that Constantine was a part of - it is a cult, Campbell. God isn't involved in it in any way, shape or form.

When I left Roman Catholicism and later became a born again Christian I saw answers to prayer that would astound you. I've seen people healed of cancer with my own eyes, I've seen people delivered of demonic possession / oppression, people gloriously saved, people delivered from depression in an instant - right before my eyes as I prayed for them - they told me it was like night and day - the depression just lifted and was gone!

What you are angry with is dead religion, tradition, false religion and who could blame you? God is angry with the wicked every day - Himself - there isn't anything wrong with being outraged over what Catholicism has done to millions of people - but be assured that while this counterfeit has turned you off there is a genuine faith which Satan does not want you to know about and that faith is in Christ alone - by faith we are justified - freely you can receive salvation this very day and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior - without the rituals, dead religion, all that is not of God! God hates religion as much as you do. He is looking for a relationship with you - based on faith - you trust Him as your Savior - salvation is a free gift not something that can be earned.

God loves you and when you accept Jesus Christ as your LORD an Savior and pray to the Father in His Son's Name? He will will answer! Every time! He will answer!

 

[Campbell]

John Mulinde delivers this message to the Body of Christ on the subject of "Desperate Prayer." There is nothing more important than our prayer lives. Satan does not mind if the church involves itself in acts of charity, programs, building projects, social gatherings but when the people seek holiness, repentance, prayer and fasting? All of hell goes on alert to stop it. Why? Because the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much with God. The power of Prayer is unlimited. Prayer changes us. Prayer changes everything. It is prayer that moves the hand of God.

It is written:

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayers that is made in this place.
2 Chronicles 7:14,15

When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially disabled for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticized and spread. The afflicted usually lasted a year after that at the most.

Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were
crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the afflicted suffered and died anyway. Where was the invisible man in the sky?

Now the average life expectancy of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the electronic spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, echocardiogram, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catherization procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about? Did anything the prayer group did have any effect at all?

A short while back one of my high school mates about 79 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion. The prayers must have worked on that one.

In another post you mentioned that you were Catholic? That's where your trouble is. I used to be Roman Catholic too and God never answered any of my prayers in that place either. How could He? I wasn't praying to Him. I was praying to a "another Jesus" - based on the Babylonian religion that Constantine was a part of - it is a cult, Campbell. God isn't involved in it in any way, shape or form.

When I left Roman Catholicism and later became a born again Christian I saw answers to prayer that would astound you. I've seen people healed of cancer with my own eyes, I've seen people delivered of demonic possession / oppression, people gloriously saved, people delivered from depression in an instant - right before my eyes as I prayed for them - they told me it was like night and day - the depression just lifted and was gone!

What you are angry with is dead religion, tradition, false religion and who could blame you? God is angry with the wicked every day - Himself - there isn't anything wrong with being outraged over what Catholicism has done to millions of people - but be assured that while this counterfeit has turned you off there is a genuine faith which Satan does not want you to know about and that faith is in Christ alone - by faith we are justified - freely you can receive salvation this very day and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior - without the rituals, dead religion, all that is not of God! God hates religion as much as you do. He is looking for a relationship with you - based on faith - you trust Him as your Savior - salvation is a free gift not something that can be earned.

God loves you and when you accept Jesus Christ as your LORD an Savior and pray to the Father in His Son's Name? He will will answer! Every time! He will answer!

When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially disabled for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticized and spread. The afflicted usually lasted a year after that at the most.

Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were
crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the afflicted suffered and died anyway. Where was the invisible man in the sky?

Now the average life expectancy of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the electronic spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, echocardiogram, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catherization procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about? Did anything the prayer group did have any effect at all?

A short while back one of my high school mates about 79 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion. The prayers must have worked on that one.

 

[RandomVariable]

Great thread, Jeremiah. God has recently shown me the power of prayer. Has taken my understanding of God to a whole new level.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! Over 20,000 people were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?


1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 10:1-12

___________
This is why the Old Testament is so very important and New Testament Believers should study the entire KJV Bible - All the Scriptures - not just the New Testament - why? Verse 11 - Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world is come. These things were recorded for us! God had this planned before the foundations of the earth! How awesome is our God! Totally awesome!

 

[Campbell]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Campbell as I don't believe I was on your intro - welcome to the USMB board! It's nice to meet you!

I'm glad you mentioned Einstein because Einstein doesn't agree with you about Jesus Christ. See for yourself in this interview he gave with the SATURDAY EVENING POST on Oct. 26, 1929:

Interview with
AN OLD JEW

S. Viereck questions Nobel physicist Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Q: To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?
A: As a child I received instructions both in the Bible and in the Talmud, I am a Jew, but am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.

Q: Have you read Emil Ludwig's book on Jesus?

A: Emil Ludwig's Jesus is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrase-mongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot.

Q: You accept the historical existence of Jesus?

A: Unquestionably. No man can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. How different, for instance, is the impression which we receive from account of the legendary heroes of antiquity like Theseus! Theseus and other heroes of his type lack the authentic vitality of Jesus.

Q: Ludwig Lewisohn, in one of his recent books, claims that many of the sayings of Jesus paraphrase the sayings of other prophets.

A: No man can deny the fact that Jesus existed, nor that his sayings are beautiful. Even if some of them have been said before, no one expressed it so divinely as he.

SATURDAY EVENING POST, OCT. 26, 1929

As for your quote of Jefferson - You also missed something there as well - this is what Jefferson actually said, Campbell:

1823 April 11. (Jefferson to John Adams). "The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."

When you only quote in part, Campbell, you are likely to miss the message. Jefferson was not saying that Jesus Christ was a fable but rather those who claimed to be expositors (perhaps Catholicism?) would be exposed as not having any foundation for his original words (as found in the KJV Bible).

Here is some history on his church attendance :

CHURCH ATTENDANCE
Records of Thomas Jefferson's church-going habits are far from complete. However, evidence does exist of his involvement with and attendance at local churches throughout his life. His accounts record donations to a number of different churches in Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and in Charlottesville.4 As a young man, Jefferson served as a vestryman in Fredericksville Parish (Albemarle County).5 Margaret Bayard Smith, in her memoir The First Forty Years of Washington Society, recalled:

"During the first winter, Mr. Jefferson regularly attended service on the sabbath-day in the humble church. The congregation seldom exceeded 50 or 60, but generally consisted of about a score of hearers. He could have had no motive for this regular attendance, but that of respect for public worship, choice of place or preacher he had not, as this, with the exception of a little Catholic chapel was the only church in the new city. The custom of preaching in the Hall of Representatives had not then been attempted, though after it was established Mr. Jefferson during his whole administration, was a most regular attendant. The seat he chose the first sabbath, and the adjoining one, which his private secretary occupied, were ever afterwards by the courtesy of the congregation, left for him and his secretary."

 

[RandomVariable]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

 

[Campbell]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

You do understand that the folks who passed this crap along did it 500 years before paper was invented don't you? In other words a few very elite told their own version of the truth and frankly.....it Sucks!

As a matter of fact it makes me suspicious of the 10% tithe. I wonder how much wealth has been acquired by the uppercrust taking advantage of average people because of a lot of nonsense.

PS have you sent your monthly contribution to Joel Osteen?

If you doubt what 10% can do look at Vatican City in Rome. Hundreds of billions of dollars of gold, silver and fine art collected with donations from very ordinary human beings.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

Yet you desire to partake in discussions about it, Campbell. You see, prayer is above all else - supernatural!

 

[RandomVariable]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

Yet you desire to partake in discussions about it, Campbell. You see, prayer is above all else - supernatural!

Campbell is in that, 'I'm ok because of good works' phase. Although he is a little nervous because deep down we all know the truth.

 

[Campbell]

I've just witnessed some powerful answers to prayer for my church. God is totally amazing! Many of us are asking the LORD for the same thing to happen here. I believe He is doing it, R.V. We have yet to see the surface scratched on what is about to happen!

The power of prayer is beyond any other power in the universe. Men complain over many things while standing in unbelief - grumbling. I tell you the truth, I believe that is why God was so severe with the Israelites in the desert - they were grumbling - constantly grumbling! 20,000 were struck dead in a single day over it. Why is complaining such a serious sin with God? I believe it's because those who complain are the same ones who will not enter in by Faith and believe God - petitioning in prayer! People who grumble are too lazy to pray, too lazy to obey God, too lazy to even believe God and if that were not enough - they want others to join them! It must be where the saying, "Misery loves company" came from.

I've never seen anyone receive anything from God while they were complaining! Have you?

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

Yet you desire to partake in discussions about it, Campbell. You see, prayer is above all else - supernatural!

Campbell is in that, 'I'm ok because of good works' phase. Although he is a little nervous because deep down we all know the truth.

As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths. These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus Christ.

The story of Jesus Christ is rooted in ancient myth.

1. Horus (3100 B.C.)

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus Christ. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus Christ.

2. Buddha (563 B.C.)
Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his? old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.




3. Mithra (2000 B.C.)

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

4. Krishna (around 3000 B.C.)


Krishna, a Hindu God, was born after his mother was impregnated by a God. His birth was attended by angels, wise men, and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Like Jesus, when Krishna was born, a tyrant had ordered the slaughter of all newborns. In addition, he was baptized in a river, performed miracles, raised the dead, healed the deaf and blind, used parables to teach charity and love, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, and it is believe he will someday return to earth to battle the “Prince of Evil.”

5. Osiris (around 2500 B.C.)
Osiris was the son of one of the many Egyptian Gods. Like Jesus, Osiris was portrayed as a bearded man, and his myth says that he was killed and the resurrected after three days in hell. Also like Jesus Osiris performed miracles, had 12 disciples, and taught that people could be born again through baptism in water. In addition, Osiris had many titles, including “Lord of Lords,” “King of Kings,” and “Good Shepherd.”

There are many more religious figures who have multiple similarities to Jesus, including Odysseus, Romulus, Dionysus, Heracles, Glycon, and others. Mythical stories depicting the virginal births of the sons of Gods go back millennia, most likely predating the advent of writing.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is what I know, RV. There was a time when I doubted God's goodness and doubted His love for me and thought that it would be impossible to know a better life than I had. But I was wrong! I found out God did love me, I experienced His goodness and today my life is transformed because of Him. What He did for me? He can do it for anyone! All it takes is the willingness to believe Him and take Him at His Word. His offer is open to all and His loving Hand is reaching out to whosoever will come to Him and believe.

I knew of a woman who drove through a terrible storm. in the middle of the storm a tree crashed on her old automobile and crunched the windshield. As she was poor and could not afford a wrecker to tow it home she waited for the rain to stop. Eventually the sun came out and she drove home and the light reflected on that shattered (yet intact) windshield and suddenly a rainbow of colors filled her car - as the light reflected off the broken windshield like a prism. Her breath was taken away by the beauty of what she saw! The LORD spoke to her heart and said, I can make something beautiful out of the broken pieces of your life.

 

[RandomVariable]

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

Yet you desire to partake in discussions about it, Campbell. You see, prayer is above all else - supernatural!

Campbell is in that, 'I'm ok because of good works' phase. Although he is a little nervous because deep down we all know the truth.

As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths. These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus Christ.

The story of Jesus Christ is rooted in ancient myth.

1. Horus (3100 B.C.)

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus Christ. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus Christ.

2. Buddha (563 B.C.)
Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his? old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.




3. Mithra (2000 B.C.)

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

4. Krishna (around 3000 B.C.)


Krishna, a Hindu God, was born after his mother was impregnated by a God. His birth was attended by angels, wise men, and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Like Jesus, when Krishna was born, a tyrant had ordered the slaughter of all newborns. In addition, he was baptized in a river, performed miracles, raised the dead, healed the deaf and blind, used parables to teach charity and love, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, and it is believe he will someday return to earth to battle the “Prince of Evil.”

5. Osiris (around 2500 B.C.)
Osiris was the son of one of the many Egyptian Gods. Like Jesus, Osiris was portrayed as a bearded man, and his myth says that he was killed and the resurrected after three days in hell. Also like Jesus Osiris performed miracles, had 12 disciples, and taught that people could be born again through baptism in water. In addition, Osiris had many titles, including “Lord of Lords,” “King of Kings,” and “Good Shepherd.”

There are many more religious figures who have multiple similarities to Jesus, including Odysseus, Romulus, Dionysus, Heracles, Glycon, and others. Mythical stories depicting the virginal births of the sons of Gods go back millennia, most likely predating the advent of writing.

Well, you are not an atheist and I am not a Christian. I was an agnostic until God told me to read the Old Testament. I have gained understanding of God through the Old Testament and prayer. Who Jesus is I do not know. The fact that you end your search for God when you get to Jesus is one aspect of Christianity that does trouble me.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Actually I have retired from a good job and have a good pension. I live in a lake house with 220 ft. of lake frontage and a floating dock, new pontoon boat and a lake fed, automatic irrigation system for my acre and a half zoysia lawn. I have three well educated, successful children, eight grandchildren and two great grandchildren. All of them are healthy and score in the upper ten percent in their education and other endeavors. I'll be 81 years old the 26th of next month and your invisible man in the sky had absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like Dr. Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson...I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tale written by folks who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. I like these quotes best of all:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--
a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death
of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to
contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous
structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the
intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will
be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason
and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~

Coincidence? I was just about to reply to Jeremiah and say that perhaps what is worse than complaining is the false belief that there is nothing wrong.

This world is not the beginning and the end, Campbell. We are from God. Saying what wonderful things you have done in this world and all that you have in this world is to miss the whole reason for this world.

Well...since I don't believe in gods....there have been a thousand of them.....I'll just say let nature take it's course. One thing I've noticed is how often Christians have to say, "God Works In Mysterious Ways!"

I don't have to rely on the use of mysterious. I don't believe in the supernatural.

Yet you desire to partake in discussions about it, Campbell. You see, prayer is above all else - supernatural!

Campbell is in that, 'I'm ok because of good works' phase. Although he is a little nervous because deep down we all know the truth.

As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths. These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus Christ.

The story of Jesus Christ is rooted in ancient myth.

1. Horus (3100 B.C.)

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus Christ. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus Christ.

2. Buddha (563 B.C.)
Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his? old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.




3. Mithra (2000 B.C.)

Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

4. Krishna (around 3000 B.C.)


Krishna, a Hindu God, was born after his mother was impregnated by a God. His birth was attended by angels, wise men, and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Like Jesus, when Krishna was born, a tyrant had ordered the slaughter of all newborns. In addition, he was baptized in a river, performed miracles, raised the dead, healed the deaf and blind, used parables to teach charity and love, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, and it is believe he will someday return to earth to battle the “Prince of Evil.”

5. Osiris (around 2500 B.C.)
Osiris was the son of one of the many Egyptian Gods. Like Jesus, Osiris was portrayed as a bearded man, and his myth says that he was killed and the resurrected after three days in hell. Also like Jesus Osiris performed miracles, had 12 disciples, and taught that people could be born again through baptism in water. In addition, Osiris had many titles, including “Lord of Lords,” “King of Kings,” and “Good Shepherd.”

There are many more religious figures who have multiple similarities to Jesus, including Odysseus, Romulus, Dionysus, Heracles, Glycon, and others. Mythical stories depicting the virginal births of the sons of Gods go back millennia, most likely predating the advent of writing.

I'm so glad you brought this up, Campbell, because it helps us to understand how you have come to believe that the Bible is not the Word of God and that Jesus Christ is a myth that hinges on the stories which Satan deceived the world with - you see it all comes from the religion you left! Catholicism is based on the Babylonian religion! I'm posting this link so you can see the roots of Horus, Osiris and the rest of what you have believed is connected to Jesus (yet it isn't). Keep in mind, Campbell that Satan is the most subtle of all creatures and therein able a master of deceit. This is why we are warned not to listen to him, not to entertain his arguments against God. What has happened to you is not an isolated incident. It's happened to many people in the past. Have a look at this:

Constantine, Origin Of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon & Sunday

Satan's church had its beginning at Babylon with the construction of the Tower of Babel on the plain of Shinar by the River Euphrates many generations after the deluge. At the time of the construction of Babylon at the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-4), mankind had multiplied and spoken one language. Cush who was the son of Ham and grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:1, 6), helped to plan with his son Nimrod, a blueprint by which to rule the world of humanity through a wicked counterfeit religion. Nimrod was the originator of sun worship and founder of Babylon. A Bible translation called the Targum says, “Nimrod became a mighty man of sin, a murderer of innocent men, and a rebel before the Lord.”

The beginning of Nimrod's evil plan had its origin at Babel which was later known as Babylon. This city of Babylon with a tower “whose top may reach unto heaven” was built by Nimrod (Genesis 10:8-10; 11:4).

They called the tower “Babel, the gate to heaven,” but God called it what it was which was, “Babel, confusion,” for there God confused the language of the people which forced them to scatter. This heaven defying group of people wanted one government to rule the world and one religion to sway the hearts of mankind. This was Satan's attempt to defy God and His authority and the ring leader of his scheme was Nimrod. But God came down and stopped this world wide rebellion at Babel, in defiance of His command for mankind to replenish the earth (Genesis 9:1) by confusing their language into many languages so they could not understand one another's speech. Mankind discontinued the building of Babel and were scattered to different parts of the world (Genesis 11:8-9).

Nimrod had a plan to weld together and strengthen this evil religious system and so he married his own mother who was Semiramis. She was the first deified queen of Babylon and Nimrod was the first deified king. Semiramis was as wicked as her son Nimrod, and as much sold out to Satan and devil worship as did he. Incest was used here as a basis to unite this newly false religious system. Nimrod and his mother/wife would be greatly used by Satan in the following centuries to send countless millions and even billions of souls to hell.

Satan's plan was to develop a counterfeit, opposition system of religion to attract worship away from the true God of Heaven. This false system had its sacrificial plan just as God had a plan of sacrifice. But Satan's pagan worship required the offering up of human beings, which was often the sons and daughters of the worshipers. A counterfeit holy day was instituted in honor of the sun god, (Sun-day) and this was designed by Satan to rob God of his peculiar authority as the Creator of the universe as designated by His Holy day the Sabbath.
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we can call this part 1 - do not get hung up on the matter of Sunday - Jesus is LORD over every day and He is our Sabbath rest but for the sake of the information about how Catholicism came about and the origin of Horus, Osiris, etc, we'll look at the rest......

Constantine, Origin Of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon & Sunday

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Nimrod's and Semiramis' followers plunged so deeply into sin and the occult that they even sacrificed babies to Satan in their worship of him. This became a common practice until Shem who was one of Noah's three sons and the great uncle of Nimrod, in his anger and wrath killed Nimrod and cut him up into small pieces as an example to others not to commit such abominable sins and not to follow such evil religious practices. (Shem was a godly man and it was through his seed the Messiah would come.)

Alexander Hislop in his book The Two Babylons said, , “the Tower of Babel was actually the worship of Satan in the form of fire, the sun and the serpent. However, Satan worship could not be done openly because of the many who still believed in the true God of Noah. So a mystery religion began at Babel where Satan could be worshipped in secret.” – Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, 2nd American ed.(Neptune, New Jersey: Loizeaux Brothers, 1959)

Because of Nimrod's death, the followers of Nimrod and Semiramis were stunned and experienced much grief. Their religious hero was dead. They were afraid to continue in their worship of Satan for fear that what happened to Nimrod would also happen to them, so a mystery religion developed at Babel where Satan could be worshipped in secret. This is exactly what is happening in these last days. Satan is using mysteries and deceptions to deceive people into thinking that they are worshipping God when they are actually worshipping Satan.

For a short time the practices of this counterfeit religion ceased but Semiramis, the wife of Nimrod, had a brilliant idea of how she could successfully revive her and Nimrod's pagan religion and give it a new form. It was not long after the death of her husband that Semiramis became pregnant. She said that when Nimrod died that he went up to the sun, and the sun then became a symbol of Nimrod. She told the people that a ray of the sun had come to her and impregnated her with a child and that it was actually Nimrod coming back in a reincarnation of the sun god. The child was called Tammuz and these three were worshipped as the personification of the sun god, and this is where we find the three in one trinity doctrine originated and is where the first three came into existence. This mystery religion was nothing more than Satan worship. Read the pagan origins of the trinity doctrine for more.

“The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis. Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband and her son as well as herself. She claimed that her son, was both the father and the son. Yes, he was “god the father” and “god the son” - The first divine incomprehensible trinity.” – The Two Babylons; Alexander Hislop, p.51

So Semiramis proclaimed that her husband Nimrod was a god, and she as the wife of Nimrod was a goddess. She then announced herself to be “The Queen of Heaven” and that she should be worshiped as such. She claimed that her spirit was the moon and when she died she would dwell in the moon, even as Nimrod was already in the sun. What a devilish brainstorm inspired by Satan!

Satan was laying the foundation for every system of falsehood and error the world has ever known. They took the truth of God and turned it into a lie and “worshipped and served the creature (on a wider application also includes Satan) more than the Creator.” Romans 1:25. This system of paganism, while professing to be the true religion, is actually devil worship. It professes and claims to be the truth of God but in reality it is Satan's masterpiece, the “mystery of iniquity.”

As Satan's church gained momentum, Semiramis pushed this satanic religious order underground. The followers of this counterfeit religion had to take secret oaths. The secret societies (some unscriptural lodges of today) thus had their beginning. The confessionals and priesthood were set up. The followers of this pagan religion confessed their sins to their priests. (what church continued this unbiblical pagan tradition?) See also 1 Timothy 2:5, Luke 5:20-21. By so doing, Semiramis could control her followers and exercise lordship over them. She boldly and brazenly proclaimed that she and her priests were the only ones who understood the mysteries of God and that they were the only possible way to God. Because of dedication to and fear of this false religious system, the followers of this religion fearfully complied.

Semiramis and her priests of Satan were deep into the occult, magic and illusion. They were masters of lies and deception. Everywhere there were statues or idols of this mother/child cult. Semiramis was soon hailed as “The Queen of Heaven” (Ashtarte). Her symbol became the moon and her husband Nimrod, was called “Baal” (the “sun god”) and his symbol became the sun. The city of Babylon was the seat of Satan worship until its fall to the Medes and the Persians in 539 BC. At this time the Babylonian pagan priests left Babylon and went to Alexandria and Pergamos. See who is the beast that has the number 666 or the origin of 666 for more.

It should be noted that the majority of the Babylonian pagan priests went to Pergamos more so than Alexandria, so for many centuries after the fall of Babylon, Pergamos became the new seat of Satan (Revelation 2:12-13), but around 129 BC, opportunity arose for them to leave Pergamos and go to Rome and thus Rome became the final seat of Satan where he set up his church, and hence sun worship, which was practised on Sunday, was most prevalent in Alexandria and Rome by the time of Christ.

Church historian Socrates Scholasticus (5th century) wrote: “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [of the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.” – Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, ch. 22.

So Baal worship was in full swing. It caught on fast and spread to many parts of the world. In Egypt, Semiramis became known as “Isis”, “The Queen of Heaven.” Nimrod became known as “Osiris”, the husband/son, and frequently called “Horus” (the sun god). In Phoenicia, Semiramis and Nimrod were worshipped as or known as Ashterath and Tammuz; in Greece, Aphrodite and Eros; in Rome, Venus and Cupid, and in China, Mother Shing Moo and her child.

When the cold season began every year, they believed their sun god was leaving them. It was on December 25th that they noticed the gradual return of the sun god. So they called this day the birth of the sun. Tammuz was hailed as the son of the sun. He was idolized and even worshipped and the first letter of his name became the symbol of sun worship. Human sacrifices to the sun god were offered on this initial letter made of wood, known as the cross “T” and this “T” for Tammuz is also the true origin of Catholics crossing themselves. His birthday of December 25 was honored more and more. Satan worked many years before the conception and birth of the true Messiah to counterfeit through sun worship His miraculous conception and birth. Satan succeeded many times in leading God's people into sin and pagan sun worship.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Let's look at this again, Campbell:

Constantine, Origin Of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon & Sunday

So Baal worship was in full swing. It caught on fast and spread to many parts of the world. In Egypt, Semiramis became known as “Isis”, “The Queen of Heaven.” Nimrod became known as “Osiris”, the husband/son, and frequently called “Horus” (the sun god). In Phoenicia, Semiramis and Nimrod were worshipped as or known as Ashterath and Tammuz; in Greece, Aphrodite and Eros; in Rome, Venus and Cupid, and in China, Mother Shing Moo and her child.

When the cold season began every year, they believed their sun god was leaving them. It was on December 25th that they noticed the gradual return of the sun god. So they called this day the birth of the sun. Tammuz was hailed as the son of the sun. He was idolized and even worshipped and the first letter of his name became the symbol of sun worship. Human sacrifices to the sun god were offered on this initial letter made of wood, known as the cross “T” and this “T” for Tammuz is also the true origin of Catholics crossing themselves. His birthday of December 25 was honored more and more.
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Do you see now how Satan has deceived you? This was his plan from the beginning. Always remember that anything Satan has a counterfeit for? He is copying what is genuine and that is that God is a triune being. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. So Satan deceived the world with his "unholy trinity" - you see that?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Look at this, Campbell:

Constantine, Origin Of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon & Sunday

The true date of the birth of Christ is most likely between July and September but since the exact date of Christ's birthday was unknown, it was suggested, “Why not call it the same date as the birth of Tammuz, which was December 25?” This was the time when the sun had reached its lowest point on the horizon and started back up into the heavens and so the sun god had come to life, so to speak. So gradually December 25 came to be known as the birthday of Christ. The Papal Church finally instituted a special mass on that day, “Christ's Mass,” and so December 25 became “Christmas.” The yule log burning in the fire followed by the green tree lit with candles all came from the pagan worship representing Nimrod being dead, while his spirit still lived on in the sun and was alive again in Tammuz his son.

Jesus was crucified and resurrected in the spring of the year near the time of the moon festival. The devil was at work once again to bring the idea of having a celebration at the same time as the heathen but calling it “in honor of the resurrection.” And in regards to the worship of the moon goddess Semiramis, the so called queen of heaven. The cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN were round and on them was cut a cross in honor of the sun god, and they were offered to the queen of heaven and today we call them “hot cross buns.” (Read Jeremiah 7:16-18). The forty days of “weeping for Tammuz” became Lent and at the close of Lent came Easter Sunday. The prophet Ezekiel was shown even greater abominations. (Read Ezekiel 8:12-18). This goddess Ishtar (Easter) came to be known as the goddess of springtime as in “new life,” or as history records it, the “goddess of reproduction.” The pagans would go to some mountain side early Sunday morning and worship this goddess as the sun was rising in the east. They gave themselves to immorality and indecency of every description.

The eggs and rabbits were used as symbols of fertility and germination and hence “new life.” It all came into the Church gradually and was all blessed by the Catholic Church and given to the world. And some people wonder why God calls the Catholic Church Babylon!

“The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.” — An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry “Cardinal Newman” p.373.

“It has often been charged… that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation and even to make it her boast… the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized” — The Story of Catholicism p 37.