The Political Obligation to Pay Higher Taxes

[Wiseacre]

I've seen this assertion before on this forum regarding rich people. Essentially it goes like this: the rich got rich because our society in the form of gov't provided for certain benefits such as roads, bridges, schools, police, fire, etc. So, the rich people owe at least a part of their success to society because they used those benefits to make their wealth. Therefore they have an obligation to repay that debt, and the richer you are the more you should pay in the form of higher taxes to the gov't. It's partly a fee for services provided in the past and paying forward so others can take advantage of the same benefits in the future.

The question is how to discharge that obligation, or even if there IS an obligation. It's not like a rich person gets a choice, the infrastructure was built for everybody to use. The rich guy finds a way to make a bundle of money using that infrastructure, why is he/she penalized for their entrepeneurship?

Even if you decide there is an obligation, why is it to the gov't? If you and I go out for dinner at a restaurant and you pick up the check (thanks!), do I owe the restaurant anything? The infrastructure we have in place today was paid for by us, the taxpayers; we don't have an obligation to the gov't for spending our money on roads, bridges, and schools.

There are other was to repay a debt to society that are highly likely to be more effective and efficient. Instead of paying extra tax dollars to a gov't that misuses much of it for political gain, I could instead use it to support a myriad of charitable organizations who are going to put that money to much better use. The argument that I should pay higher taxes because I became more prosperous than you using the very same infrastructure is nonsense.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Liberals would respond with....

It is not our fault we can't find a job without a high school degree or with a college degree in art.

We can't find a job with 2 kids by age 22.

We can't find a job strung out on drugs.

We can't find a job with a criminal record of robbing, raping or killing people.

We were born in the ghetto.

We were raised by a single mom.

We don't have white skin.

We are a female.

We weren't born into a family like the "rich" Bush family.

We prefer to sleep in until 10 am everyday and stay up until 2 am partying.

We are obese and can't fit into a work cubicle.

We are hooked on late night movies and day time soap operas.

Blah, blah, blah

 

[Inthemiddle]

why is he/she penalized for their entrepeneurship?

Why do people insist on making this claim?

 

[francoHFW]

Reaganists and Beocons have reinvented our country and ethics, and it absolutely suqs. Dittiheads!

 

[editec]

You guys really do try to beat the swhit out of those strawmen daily don't you?

The reason that we have a progressive system of taxation isn't theoretical, it isn't based on morality, or any fancy social engineering, either.

Mostly it has to do with going after the citizens who have money to begin with.

EVery stupid fucking tax proposal the GOPers come up pretends that those people bearly making it now, can somehow pay taxes and still keep going.

They cannot.

Let me remind you that the median salary in the USA is about $21,000.

You can't expect people living on that kind of income to pay FICA taxes PLUS social security taxes, too.

Seriously half the families in America would be homless by the end of the first year of say a 10% flat tax on top of what they already get deducted from their incomes.

If you want 100% of the workers to pay some FICA taxes, the solution is to see to it that 100% of the workers make a wage high enough to be able to do so.

Now I know goddamned well that most of this board RW trolls would not support any policy designed to put more money into workers paychecks, so let's not pretend that that isn't the MAJOR reason so many families aren't contributing to the FED ravenous appetite.

 

[Wiseacre]

Apparently I did a poor job of outlining the subject of my OP, which was not the progressive tax system. Instead, it was the excuse that the rich got rich by virtue of having infrastructure in place and public services such as police and fire, and so therefore the rich owe a debt to the gov't and should pay higher taxes as a result.

Balderdash! Everyone's life was improved by these things, the rich people got their wealth through their own efforts and owe nothing more than anyone else for those benefits. Certainly they owe nothing to the gov't, in the form of higher taxes.

No, about that progressive tax. If a lower income person makes $40,000 and a richer person makes $400,000 and they both pay a 20% flat tax. Say they both get a $10,000 exemption for themselves and their spouse. The lower income person pays $4,000 but the richer guy pays $76,000. Why isn't that fair enough?

The fact of the matter is that changing the tax rate somebody pays is an incentive or disincentive to earn more money. It mkes no economic sense if you want to grow an economy to do anything that disincentivizes growth.

 

[GoneBezerk]

...and you shitheads still have HDTVs, PS3s, Blue Ray players, party on the weekends, etc.....and get money for breathing by filing taxes.

So much for being poor...

You guys really do try to beat the swhit out of those strawmen daily don't you?

The reason that we have a progressive system of taxation isn't theoretical, it isn't based on morality, or any fancy social engineering, either.

Mostly it has to do with going after the citizens who have money to begin with.

EVery stupid fucking tax proposal the GOPers come up pretends that those people bearly making it now, can somehow pay taxes and still keep going.

They cannot.

Let me remind you that the median salary in the USA is about $21,000.

You can't expect people living on that kind of income to pay FICA taxes PLUS social security taxes, too.

Seriously half the families in America would be homless by the end of the first year of say a 10% flat tax on top of what they already get deducted from their incomes.

If you want 100% of the workers to pay some FICA taxes, the solution is to see to it that 100% of the workers make a wage high enough to be able to do so.

Now I know goddamned well that most of this board RW trolls would not support any policy designed to put more money into workers paychecks, so let's not pretend that that isn't the MAJOR reason so many families aren't contributing to the FED ravenous appetite.

 

[francoHFW]

Sure. Dittoheads...

__________________
The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

 

[GoneBezerk]

Well, you have internet access, so that proves idiots and the poor can get on the internet.

Sure. Dittoheads...

__________________
The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?