The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[CMike]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

Preparatory Steps to Independence,

What exactly are these specifically and where can I find them within U.N. documents?

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

When was it ever an independent Muslim state?

It was previously part of the British Empire, and then part of the Ottoman Empire, then part of the Babylonian Empire, then an independent Jewish state, then part of the Roman Empire, and then an independent Jewish State. The romans called it Palestine which actually refers to the Phillistines.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

Preparatory Steps to Independence,

What exactly are these specifically and where can I find them within U.N. documents?

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

 

[Hollie]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

Preparatory Steps to Independence,

What exactly are these specifically and where can I find them within U.N. documents?

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

Yet, you deny the authority of the Mandate Charter.

So the question remains, when was Palestine ever a country?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Your ascertion is entirely wrong.

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?
(COMMENT)

The Mandates all transitioned to the UN Trusteeship Program. [Chapter XII, Article 77(1)]

Reference your comment (neither of your links mention Israel.): You are correct. Prior to the Declaration of Independence, it was referred to as the "Jewish State" in Resolution 181(II), with a representative from the Jewish Agency. The Joint UNPC media release mentions the implementation of the November 1947 Resolution; meaning the Resolution 181(II).

The UNPC did invite the Arab Higher Committee to participate in Step Preparatory to Independence for the "Arab State;" but they Arabs declined saying they did not recognize the UN Resolution. Your observation does not change the salient points of my comment.

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

(COMMENT)

We have been through this before. The record of the UNPC:
05/17/1948 A/AC.21/12/Rev.1 UN Palestine Commission - Documents distributed to the Commission - Note by Secretariat (Rev.1)

They handled issues of Bank, the Currency Board, Postal Service, Bonds and Certificates, Revenues-liquidations-and debt assumption, and civil aviation issues. Mining and Licensing Issues. Food and Drug distributions. Police Force and Emergency services management. etc

The advance party on the ground in theater, March 1948 from the Advance Party on the Subject of Fiscal and Allied Problems.

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

(COMMENT)

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "Palestine Mandate Charter." I'll assume you are talking about the Mandate for Palestine, which was a

Country has more than one meaning. From 1922 to 1948, the Government for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine was that established and administered by the British Government.

Your document, no matter whatever else it might have been referring to, it was not describing a permanent population; a defined territory, still under British consideration and definition; a government; or a Palestinian entity with capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

What exactly are these specifically and where can I find them within U.N. documents?

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

Yet, you deny the authority of the Mandate Charter.

So the question remains, when was Palestine ever a country?

Palestine came into existence in 1924 defined by international borders. Its people were Palestinians. They were recognized around the world as Palestinians. Those Palestinians legally became citizens of Palestine in 1925. UN resolutions state that the Palestinian people in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.

Where do you get that it is not a country?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Your ascertion is entirely wrong.

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?
(COMMENT)

The Mandates all transitioned to the UN Trusteeship Program. [Chapter XII, Article 77(1)]

Reference your comment (neither of your links mention Israel.): You are correct. Prior to the Declaration of Independence, it was referred to as the "Jewish State" in Resolution 181(II), with a representative from the Jewish Agency. The Joint UNPC media release mentions the implementation of the November 1947 Resolution; meaning the Resolution 181(II).

The UNPC did invite the Arab Higher Committee to participate in Step Preparatory to Independence for the "Arab State;" but they Arabs declined saying they did not recognize the UN Resolution. Your observation does not change the salient points of my comment.

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

(COMMENT)

We have been through this before. The record of the UNPC:
05/17/1948 A/AC.21/12/Rev.1 UN Palestine Commission - Documents distributed to the Commission - Note by Secretariat (Rev.1)

They handled issues of Bank, the Currency Board, Postal Service, Bonds and Certificates, Revenues-liquidations-and debt assumption, and civil aviation issues. Mining and Licensing Issues. Food and Drug distributions. Police Force and Emergency services management. etc

The advance party on the ground in theater, March 1948 from the Advance Party on the Subject of Fiscal and Allied Problems.

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

(COMMENT)

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "Palestine Mandate Charter." I'll assume you are talking about the Mandate for Palestine, which was a

Country has more than one meaning. From 1922 to 1948, the Government for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine was that established and administered by the British Government.

Your document, no matter whatever else it might have been referring to, it was not describing a permanent population; a defined territory, still under British consideration and definition; a government; or a Palestinian entity with capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

Preparatory Steps to Independence,

What exactly are these specifically and where can I find them within U.N. documents?

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

NOPE as the word country is not mention in context with Palestine. Unless you have an altered version of the LoN MANDATE OF PALESTINE. Not to be confused with the British mandate

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

Two points I would like to make.

I supplied the link to the document Communique twice, so that it was easily referenced. And the quote was exact. In every Special Theater operations, especially in the Middle East, there is a bit of truth.

I did not misrepresent anything. HM made a very good plan and craftily wired cable. I take great exception, given that I gave all references and explained the plan in detail.

I'm surprised that you would make such an accusation. Is that all you can do.

(ANSWER)

The "Steps Preparatory to Independence" are to be found in easily Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine, Part I - Section B; 29 November 1948.

In the official media release by the UN and UNPC, Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948, said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?

Link?

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

When was Palestine ever a country?

Link?

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

Yet, you deny the authority of the Mandate Charter.

So the question remains, when was Palestine ever a country?

Palestine came into existence in 1924 defined by international borders. Its people were Palestinians. They were recognized around the world as Palestinians. Those Palestinians legally became citizens of Palestine in 1925. UN resolutions state that the Palestinian people in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.

Where do you get that it is not a country?

Wrong again as those were the borders of Jewish Palestine. If they were citizens of Palestine then why did their passports say BRITISH.
And once again the resolutions are just pipe dreams and have no legal force .

From the words of the Mandate and the UN charter

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Your ascertion is entirely wrong.

Rocco, neither of your links mention Israel.

Recommends
to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;

Requests that

(a) The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947​

Where did the UN get the authority to divide a country and set up governments against the wishes of the people?
(COMMENT)

The Mandates all transitioned to the UN Trusteeship Program. [Chapter XII, Article 77(1)]

Reference your comment (neither of your links mention Israel.): You are correct. Prior to the Declaration of Independence, it was referred to as the "Jewish State" in Resolution 181(II), with a representative from the Jewish Agency. The Joint UNPC media release mentions the implementation of the November 1947 Resolution; meaning the Resolution 181(II).

The UNPC did invite the Arab Higher Committee to participate in Step Preparatory to Independence for the "Arab State;" but they Arabs declined saying they did not recognize the UN Resolution. Your observation does not change the salient points of my comment.

What measures did the Security Council take to implement the plan?

Link?

(COMMENT)

We have been through this before. The record of the UNPC:
05/17/1948 A/AC.21/12/Rev.1 UN Palestine Commission - Documents distributed to the Commission - Note by Secretariat (Rev.1)

They handled issues of Bank, the Currency Board, Postal Service, Bonds and Certificates, Revenues-liquidations-and debt assumption, and civil aviation issues. Mining and Licensing Issues. Food and Drug distributions. Police Force and Emergency services management. etc

The advance party on the ground in theater, March 1948 from the Advance Party on the Subject of Fiscal and Allied Problems.

The Palestine Mandate Charter called Palestine a country ten times.

You would think that they would be the ones to know.

(COMMENT)

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "Palestine Mandate Charter." I'll assume you are talking about the Mandate for Palestine, which was a

Country has more than one meaning. From 1922 to 1948, the Government for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine was that established and administered by the British Government.

Your document, no matter whatever else it might have been referring to, it was not describing a permanent population; a defined territory, still under British consideration and definition; a government; or a Palestinian entity with capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

The area of the mandate of Palestine as delineated by the Mandate. It clearly states that the borders are of the mandate and should not be taken as being those of a nation

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you kidding me?

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER #1: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

• The Mandatory was selected to administer a territory to be called Palestine, with undetermined boundaries at that time.
​

THEN:

ANSWER #2: Actually, the Mandate for Palestine was open-ended. What the Mandate says --- is:​

Article 28

In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you kidding me?

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER #1: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

• The Mandatory was selected to administer a territory to be called Palestine, with undetermined boundaries at that time.
​

THEN:

ANSWER #2: Actually, the Mandate for Palestine was open-ended. What the Mandate says --- is:​

Article 28

In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.​

Most Respectfully,
R

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, it means your timeline is off.

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,
​

​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

(COMMENT)

• The Palestine Order in Council (10 Aug 1922)

The term Palestine means:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

• The Mandate for Palestine (12 Aug 1922)

The Mandate use the phrase: "administration of the territory of Palestine."
​

The Order in Council actually makes

territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies = Palestine
.........................................................................Palestine = territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, it means your timeline is off.

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,
​

​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

(COMMENT)

• The Palestine Order in Council (10 Aug 1922)

The term Palestine means:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

• The Mandate for Palestine (12 Aug 1922)

The Mandate use the phrase: "administration of the territory of Palestine."
​

The Order in Council actually makes

territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies = Palestine
.........................................................................Palestine = territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies
​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are grasping at straws trying to push Israeli propaganda.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you kidding me?

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER #1: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

• The Mandatory was selected to administer a territory to be called Palestine, with undetermined boundaries at that time.
​

THEN:

ANSWER #2: Actually, the Mandate for Palestine was open-ended. What the Mandate says --- is:​

Article 28

In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.​

Most Respectfully,
R

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

Nor did it say the country or nation of Palestine, but the preamble defines what is meant by the territory of Palestine. You have been shown this time and time again and still deny the words exist. The mandate clearly states that the mandate of Palestine will be hereinafter called Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, it means your timeline is off.

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,
​

​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

(COMMENT)

• The Palestine Order in Council (10 Aug 1922)

The term Palestine means:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

• The Mandate for Palestine (12 Aug 1922)

The Mandate use the phrase: "administration of the territory of Palestine."
​

The Order in Council actually makes

territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies = Palestine
.........................................................................Palestine = territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies
​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are grasping at straws trying to push Israeli propaganda.

No it is you trying to push arab muslim propaganda when the evidence from a reliable source is produced. Why do you find it so difficult to understand the words in the official transcripts.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you kidding me?

So, Palestine had a temporarily appointed administration. Where does it say that Palestine was not a country? What was it that the Mandate was assigned to?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER #1: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

• The Mandatory was selected to administer a territory to be called Palestine, with undetermined boundaries at that time.
​

THEN:

ANSWER #2: Actually, the Mandate for Palestine was open-ended. What the Mandate says --- is:​

Article 28

In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.​

Most Respectfully,
R

..to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine,​

Note that they did not say the territory of the Mandate.

Nor did it say the country or nation of Palestine, but the preamble defines what is meant by the territory of Palestine. You have been shown this time and time again and still deny the words exist. The mandate clearly states that the mandate of Palestine will be hereinafter called Palestine.

The order in council was in 1922. Palestine did not become a separate entity until 1924.

Of course they had to fudge the definition before Palestine legally existed.

This whole argument is a bunch of smoke.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This did not happen in 1924. In fact nothing happened in 1924.

Nor did it say the country or nation of Palestine, but the preamble defines what is meant by the territory of Palestine. You have been shown this time and time again and still deny the words exist. The mandate clearly states that the mandate of Palestine will be hereinafter called Palestine.

The order in council was in 1922. Palestine did not become a separate entity until 1924.

Of course they had to fudge the definition before Palestine legally existed.

This whole argument is a bunch of smoke.[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

On the activation of the Mandate for Palestine, the carve-out was established in Article 25. On 15 May, 1923, the Mandatory formally recognized the Emirate of Transjordan as a state under the leadership of Emir Abdullah.

The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, (although it doesn't mention Palestine specifically) finally normalized the international status of several territories under Mandates; including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Palestine as former Ottoman territories situated outside the frontiers of Turkey, and administered under a Mandate entrusted to the Mandatory.

It neither makes, gives, or promises the Arab-Palestinian anything regarding independence or sovereignty.

Don't give an empowerment to Palestine that the Allied Powers and the League of Nations who wrote the Covenant, the San Remo Convention, the Palestine Order in Council, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Citizenship Order, etc. They understood what they wrote and they understood what they were obligated to do.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This did not happen in 1924. In fact nothing happened in 1924.

Nor did it say the country or nation of Palestine, but the preamble defines what is meant by the territory of Palestine. You have been shown this time and time again and still deny the words exist. The mandate clearly states that the mandate of Palestine will be hereinafter called Palestine.

The order in council was in 1922. Palestine did not become a separate entity until 1924.

Of course they had to fudge the definition before Palestine legally existed.

This whole argument is a bunch of smoke.

(COMMENT)

On the activation of the Mandate for Palestine, the carve-out was established in Article 25. On 15 May, 1923, the Mandatory formally recognized the Emirate of Transjordan as a state under the leadership of Emir Abdullah.

The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, (although it doesn't mention Palestine specifically) finally normalized the international status of several territories under Mandates; including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Palestine as former Ottoman territories situated outside the frontiers of Turkey, and administered under a Mandate entrusted to the Mandatory.

It neither makes, gives, or promises the Arab-Palestinian anything regarding independence or sovereignty.

Don't give an empowerment to Palestine that the Allied Powers and the League of Nations who wrote the Covenant, the San Remo Convention, the Palestine Order in Council, the Mandate for Palestine, and the Citizenship Order, etc. They understood what they wrote and they understood what they were obligated to do.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where do they say that Palestinians were exempt of rights or that Palestine was not a country?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come on.

First, be specific... What rights do you think the Arabs had? And out of those right, which do think the Palestinians did not get.
The only rights mentioned were (i) civil and (ii) religious. These are the only rights to be specifically protected. I can't answer the question if you don't identify which rights you are discussing.

Second, in 1918 Palestine was not a self-governing political entity.

Where do they say that Palestinians were exempt of rights or that Palestine was not a country?

(COMMENT)

Palestine was not a district or political entity of its own under Ottoman Administration. The area (we call today Palestine) was secured by the Allied Forces in 1917 and it became a military Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA South) set up to replace the Ottoman administration. OETA South consisted of the Ottoman Sanjaks of Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre. The military administration was replaced by a British civilian administration in 1920 and the area of OETA South became the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine in 1923, with some border adjustments with Lebanon and Syria.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Prior to 67 Gaza was part of Egypt and the W. Bank was part of Jordan. Since that wasn't a part of " Palestine" before 67 maybe it shouldn't be a part of it now. <snip>

Finally we have a post that is staying on topic.

Fair enough, what's so sacred about the 1949 ceasefire lines? Perhaps we should address the Palestinian territory seized by Zionist Israel and occupied illegally since 1948?

It wasn't occupied illegally. The arab countries didn't accept the UN partition, and invaded immediately after Israel declared independence.

So if they didn't accept the partition, that area was not there's to begin with.

It seems you missed what it was that they wanted to partition.