- Aug 10, 2009
- 168,037
- 16,519
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- Banned
- #21
The idiots broke out of the asylum again. China has no desire for military warfare. However, I bet they love playing the economic equivalent.
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There will never be another big naval war
History says otherwise.
When was the last US ship sunk in combat? When was the last ship on ship naval battle?
There will never be another big naval war
oh for god sakes.......
To have a big naval war you need two equivalent powers. Nobody is close to the US. Last big one was US vs Japan. Who else but the US has carrier task forces?
War with Red China is coming. The question is not if, but when? It will probably start over Taiwan. ~BH
China sees the value of capitalism. There will be no war....too much money to lose
There is a difference with our capitalsm: China has state controlled capitalism, not a free market. Ask any company investing in China: Ask google, ... and many other companies. China has a very controlled form of capitalism, there are no big Chinese non-government controlled companies. Other than that: our investments in China lead to technology theft and theft of intelectual property by Chinese companies. And looking at democratic values and human rights: China is still a dictatorship led by the Chinese military and police. Consider it like a new "Soviet Union", one with loads of money and a huge manpower pool and one that has recently become the 2nd biggest economy in the world.
The idiots broke out of the asylum again. China has no desire for military warfare. However, I bet they love playing the economic equivalent.
Persian Gulf 1988 the US Navy attacked Iranian naval craft in Operation Praying Mantis. It marked the first occasion that US naval forces fired ship to ship missiles. The last US naval vessel sunk i believe is the USS Sarsi back in 1952. We have of course had the USS Stark hit by an Iraqi Exocet but thankfully it didn't sink. Just remember, After the carnage of WWI the "experts" said there would not be another major war, the experts have also said that aircraft no longer needed guns for air to air combat, that tanks were obsolete, and I can go on and on with experts telling us that "never again" will something happen. So yes history says you are wrong and your type of thinking is what leads to armies having to relearn how to fight all the time because the experts said it wouldn't happen again. The cost for that mentality is far too much blood and suffering.When was the last US ship sunk in combat? When was the last ship on ship naval battle?History says otherwise.
War with Red China is coming. The question is not if, but when? It will probably start over Taiwan. ~BH
China sees the value of capitalism. There will be no war....too much money to lose
Wrong buddy, War is money. They also know that if they win, they will truly own us. But if they lose, we will rebuild their Country, and then it will be business as usual. ~BH
China sees the value of capitalism. There will be no war....too much money to lose
Wrong buddy, War is money. They also know that if they win, they will truly own us. But if they lose, we will rebuild their Country, and then it will be business as usual. ~BH
They can't win unless they invade us and no country on earth has the capability to invade the US
oh for god sakes.......
To have a big naval war you need two equivalent powers. Nobody is close to the US. Last big one was US vs Japan. Who else but the US has carrier task forces?
See Operation Praying Mantis above.
China is building an brown water navy not a blue water navy. their whole focus is control of China sea, the eastern Indian Ocean and far western Pacific basin. They do not seek to push their military power any farther than that at present. Although they are building an aircraft carrier their main focus is on subs. Diesel subs are so quiet they can penetrate our ASW forces protecting our carriers. They are also focusing on missile technology. In the naval war that can occur when the Chinese take Taiwan our carrier task force must stay hidden behind Taiwan and cannot come any closer to stay out of missile and sub range. Even then one of their subs could sneak out and sink a a carrier.
Surface to surface combat between the US and anyone is impossible for the forseeable future. As our naval forces are reduced by budgetary pressures over the next 30 years that impossibility changes to possibility and then probability if other nations decide to commit money to naval forces. I can see other countries anti ship capabilites and sub technology make our navy obselete. If our navy ventures into another area of the world the mission approaches a suicide mission. As a country we cannot maintain a 12 or 13 carrier navy. That will have to be cut in half in the next 20 years because we just cannot afford it. As our preeminance declines other navies become more powerful and the possibility of conflict becomes more realistic.
To have a big naval war you need two equivalent powers. Nobody is close to the US. Last big one was US vs Japan. Who else but the US has carrier task forces?
See Operation Praying Mantis above.
Is that really the best you could come up with?
Do you understand what a major naval battle is?
China is building an brown water navy not a blue water navy. their whole focus is control of China sea, the eastern Indian Ocean and far western Pacific basin. They do not seek to push their military power any farther than that at present. Although they are building an aircraft carrier their main focus is on subs. Diesel subs are so quiet they can penetrate our ASW forces protecting our carriers. They are also focusing on missile technology. In the naval war that can occur when the Chinese take Taiwan our carrier task force must stay hidden behind Taiwan and cannot come any closer to stay out of missile and sub range. Even then one of their subs could sneak out and sink a a carrier.
Surface to surface combat between the US and anyone is impossible for the forseeable future. As our naval forces are reduced by budgetary pressures over the next 30 years that impossibility changes to possibility and then probability if other nations decide to commit money to naval forces. I can see other countries anti ship capabilites and sub technology make our navy obselete. If our navy ventures into another area of the world the mission approaches a suicide mission. As a country we cannot maintain a 12 or 13 carrier navy. That will have to be cut in half in the next 20 years because we just cannot afford it. As our preeminance declines other navies become more powerful and the possibility of conflict becomes more realistic.
Those navies, I would think, must have nuclear capable delivery to be successful against the U.S., even 20 to 30 years from now.
China is building an brown water navy not a blue water navy. their whole focus is control of China sea, the eastern Indian Ocean and far western Pacific basin. They do not seek to push their military power any farther than that at present. Although they are building an aircraft carrier their main focus is on subs. Diesel subs are so quiet they can penetrate our ASW forces protecting our carriers. They are also focusing on missile technology. In the naval war that can occur when the Chinese take Taiwan our carrier task force must stay hidden behind Taiwan and cannot come any closer to stay out of missile and sub range. Even then one of their subs could sneak out and sink a a carrier.
Surface to surface combat between the US and anyone is impossible for the forseeable future. As our naval forces are reduced by budgetary pressures over the next 30 years that impossibility changes to possibility and then probability if other nations decide to commit money to naval forces. I can see other countries anti ship capabilites and sub technology make our navy obselete. If our navy ventures into another area of the world the mission approaches a suicide mission. As a country we cannot maintain a 12 or 13 carrier navy. That will have to be cut in half in the next 20 years because we just cannot afford it. As our preeminance declines other navies become more powerful and the possibility of conflict becomes more realistic.
Those navies, I would think, must have nuclear capable delivery to be successful against the U.S., even 20 to 30 years from now.
Ah the nuclear genie. Using nuclear warheads in a naval battle would only occur as a last ditch effort. Using nukes agains a non-nuclear force would make the user a pariah in the international scene. Using nukes against a nuclear power invites a similar response so both navies would be wiped out. Nukes are most effective as a deterrent and if they are used, they are used in defeat. China has nuclear capability and they have ICBM's capable of reaching the US. Any war we have with China will be constrained to the theater of operations and not the Chinese mainland because they can reach over the Pacific and touch us back. However this thread is about naval combat and I can forsee in 2040 the evening of the field.
zzzz, the heart of your argument is "Nukes are most effective as a deterrent and if they are used, they are used in defeat." Tell that to Japan.
Those navies, I would think, must have nuclear capable delivery to be successful against the U.S., even 20 to 30 years from now.
Ah the nuclear genie. Using nuclear warheads in a naval battle would only occur as a last ditch effort. Using nukes agains a non-nuclear force would make the user a pariah in the international scene. Using nukes against a nuclear power invites a similar response so both navies would be wiped out. Nukes are most effective as a deterrent and if they are used, they are used in defeat. China has nuclear capability and they have ICBM's capable of reaching the US. Any war we have with China will be constrained to the theater of operations and not the Chinese mainland because they can reach over the Pacific and touch us back. However this thread is about naval combat and I can forsee in 2040 the evening of the field.
What do you think about a possible mutual agreement to not use Nukes as long as neithers Country is invaded? Say maybe the Taiwan situation being settled with a Naval battle minus Nukes? ~BH