The myths of high cost healthcare

[kiwiman127]

This is in CANADA??

You really do have terrible insurance.

Can't be Canada. We only pay about $2000 for our insurance and we have no co-pays at all other than $5 for a prescription. Co-pays on doctors visits or hospital stays are illegal here.

Before ObamaCare:


The following ‘Universal Healthcare’ countries have higher out-of-pocket costs than the United States:
Out-of-pocket spending as a share of total expenditure on health, 1980-2000 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/53/22364122.pdf (table 4)
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/22364122.pdf
Canada, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

Actually, the countries you listed have lower health care costs, so yes they pay a slightly higher percentage of their total health care costs. but their overall costs for healthcare are much cheaper than the US. Therefore their dollar for dollar would be lower than the US ala Out-of-Pocket. Their governments negotiate with providers to keep the cost down. Other than Medicare, the US government doesn't negotiate with providers, thus the US's highest cost for health care in the world.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the US government doesn't negotiate with providers, thus the US's highest cost for health care in the world.

you lack the IQ to be here so why are you here?? So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?


MP: As the table above of Profit Margins by Industry shows (click to enlarge, data here for the most recent quarter), the industry "Health Care Plans" ranks #86 by profit margin (profits/revenue) at 3.3%. Measured by profit margin, there are 85 industries more profitable than Health Care Plans (includes Cigna, Aetna, WellPoint, HealthSpring, etc.).

 

[kiwiman127]

the US government doesn't negotiate with providers, thus the US's highest cost for health care in the world.

you lack the IQ to be here so why are you here?? So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Do you have a clue the damage the cost of health care has on our economy, National Debt or US businesses competitiveness on the world stage? Let me answer that question for you,,,NO!
Pick a country, any country. They negotiate health care costs with the providers. As the chart within my previous post clearly shows that all other countries pay drastically less for health care than we do in the US.
What the negotiated health care costs actually do is strengthen those countries capitalistic consumer driven economies because individuals/families have more expendable income. Negotiated pricing, gives those countries businesses extra income to invest into their infrastructures, create new jobs and compete better than the US, the US companies are shouldered with the expense of paying thousands of dollars for their employees health care insurance.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the US government doesn't negotiate with providers, thus the US's highest cost for health care in the world.

you lack the IQ to be here so why are you here?? So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Do you have a clue the damage the cost of health care has on our economy, National Debt or US businesses competitiveness on the world stage? Let me answer that question for you,,,NO!
Pick a country, any country. They negotiate health care costs with the providers. As the chart within my previous post clearly shows that all other countries pay drastically less for health care than we do in the US.
What the negotiated health care costs actually do is strengthen those countries capitalistic consumer driven economies because individuals/families have more expendable income. Negotiated pricing, gives those countries businesses extra income to invest into their infrastructures, create new jobs and compete better than the US, the US companies are shouldered with the expense of paying thousands of dollars for their employees health care insurance.

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

 

[Dragonlady]

Too stupid, do you want us to be like the other countries so there is no money to be made and health care imporvements come to a stop!!

THe USA is a precious conservative jewel that is the source of civilization on earth!!

There is lots of money to be made in health care. The Canadians solved the genenome, the Germanys have a lot of medical research.

The USA is not a conservative jewel, it's a social democracy, and as long as the people don't vote for your trade policies which favour the wealthy and the corporations, it will stay that way.

 

[kiwiman127]

you lack the IQ to be here so why are you here?? So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Do you have a clue the damage the cost of health care has on our economy, National Debt or US businesses competitiveness on the world stage? Let me answer that question for you,,,NO!
Pick a country, any country. They negotiate health care costs with the providers. As the chart within my previous post clearly shows that all other countries pay drastically less for health care than we do in the US.
What the negotiated health care costs actually do is strengthen those countries capitalistic consumer driven economies because individuals/families have more expendable income. Negotiated pricing, gives those countries businesses extra income to invest into their infrastructures, create new jobs and compete better than the US, the US companies are shouldered with the expense of paying thousands of dollars for their employees health care insurance.

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Ten people are having dinner at the same table. All ten people order the same exact thing, they all have the same wine and drink equal amounts.
The bill comes. For nine of those who dined, the bill is $30. But for EdB, the bill is $50.
Now this little analogy mirrors the cost of health care with EdB being the US. Does Ed sit there and just pay the $50 or does EdB refuse to pay more for the same thing everyone else is getting?
What is logical?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Do you have a clue the damage the cost of health care has on our economy, National Debt or US businesses competitiveness on the world stage? Let me answer that question for you,,,NO!
Pick a country, any country. They negotiate health care costs with the providers. As the chart within my previous post clearly shows that all other countries pay drastically less for health care than we do in the US.
What the negotiated health care costs actually do is strengthen those countries capitalistic consumer driven economies because individuals/families have more expendable income. Negotiated pricing, gives those countries businesses extra income to invest into their infrastructures, create new jobs and compete better than the US, the US companies are shouldered with the expense of paying thousands of dollars for their employees health care insurance.

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Ten people are having dinner at the same table. All ten people order the same exact thing, they all have the same wine and drink equal amounts.
The bill comes. For nine of those who dined, the bill is $30. But for EdB, the bill is $50.
Now this little analogy mirrors the cost of health care with EdB being the US. Does Ed sit there and just pay the $50 or does EdB refuse to pay more for the same thing everyone else is getting?
What is logical?

for the 4th time! Cant the low IQ liberal socialist answer the question????????????????????????????????????????

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

 

[kiwiman127]

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????


See why we are positive a liberal will be slow?? What other conclusion is possible?

Ten people are having dinner at the same table. All ten people order the same exact thing, they all have the same wine and drink equal amounts.
The bill comes. For nine of those who dined, the bill is $30. But for EdB, the bill is $50.
Now this little analogy mirrors the cost of health care with EdB being the US. Does Ed sit there and just pay the $50 or does EdB refuse to pay more for the same thing everyone else is getting?
What is logical?

for the 4th time! Cant the low IQ liberal socialist answer the question????????????????????????????????????????

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

I thought my analogy would answer your question, but I forgot who I was dealing with. The answer is clearly ,,,,Yep.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ten people are having dinner at the same table. All ten people order the same exact thing, they all have the same wine and drink equal amounts.
The bill comes. For nine of those who dined, the bill is $30. But for EdB, the bill is $50.
Now this little analogy mirrors the cost of health care with EdB being the US. Does Ed sit there and just pay the $50 or does EdB refuse to pay more for the same thing everyone else is getting?
What is logical?

for the 4th time! Cant the low IQ liberal socialist answer the question????????????????????????????????????????

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

I thought my analogy would answer your question, but I forgot who I was dealing with. The answer is clearly ,,,,Yep.

for 5th time:
So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

 

[Dragonlady]

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

What logical sense does this question make Eddie, and quite frankly, only a complete idiot would ask it, but then I forget who I'm talking to here.

No other industry is as necessary to human life so you can't compare any other industry to health care. No other industry eats up as much of the gross national product in the US economy except the defense industry, and all purchasing in defense is government controlled, and tendered to the lowest bidder, so I guess you could say that any industry which eats up nearly a third of the economy should have the government negotiating with suppliers.

That wouldn't cover all industries, but it would cover health care and defense.

 

[dblack]

So the way to get low costs in all industries and save the American people billions is to have the government negotiate with providers???????????? Yes or No?????????????????????

What logical sense does this question make Eddie, and quite frankly, only a complete idiot would ask it, but then I forget who I'm talking to here.

No other industry is as necessary to human life so you can't compare any other industry to health care. No other industry eats up as much of the gross national product in the US economy except the defense industry, and all purchasing in defense is government controlled, and tendered to the lowest bidder, so I guess you could say that any industry which eats up nearly a third of the economy should have the government negotiating with suppliers.

That wouldn't cover all industries, but it would cover health care and defense.

This is probably the most sensible question Ed's asked yet. Watch what happens with food over the next few decades. Because they're going after that next. First, they'll ramp up their efforts to regulate production and distribution, driving prices higher and solidifying corporate control of farming. Once they get the inflationary spiral started there, they'll use the subsequent shortages to make the same sort of claims about food being a fundamental human right and simply too important to trust to the free market.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is probably the most sensible question Ed's asked yet. Watch what happens with food over the next few decades. Because they're going after that next. First, they'll ramp up their efforts to regulate production and distribution, driving prices higher and solidifying corporate control of farming. Once they get the inflationary spiral started there, they'll use the subsequent shortages to make the same sort of claims about food being a fundamental human right and simply too important to trust to the free market.

You already have a situation where Monsanto is suing farmers for saving seed and driving up the cost of farming. Food is processed to the point where most of the nutritional value is processed out of it. Healthy food is fresh food, raw and unprocessed. But the only people making money off fresh food is farmers.

But no, Eddie's question is beyond stupid, and your suggestion shows you're have about as much knowledge of how the economy functions as Eddie does, which quite, isn't much.

Here is a question for you? What percentage of American wealth is owned by the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations in the US?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No other industry is as necessary to human life so you can't compare any other industry to health care.

as usual your first sentence is jaw dropping pure stupidity and near perfect liberal ignorance. You don't think food, clothing and shelter are important?????? The human race didn't have health care until 100 years ago!!

So the question remains, dear, if the government must control health care because it is so important then it must at least control food clothing and shelter too- right?????????

Why not just admit you're a communist but lack the IQ to know it?? Why do you think our liberals spied for Stalin???

 

[dblack]

This is probably the most sensible question Ed's asked yet. Watch what happens with food over the next few decades. Because they're going after that next. First, they'll ramp up their efforts to regulate production and distribution, driving prices higher and solidifying corporate control of farming. Once they get the inflationary spiral started there, they'll use the subsequent shortages to make the same sort of claims about food being a fundamental human right and simply too important to trust to the free market.

You already have a situation where Monsanto is suing farmers for saving seed and driving up the cost of farming. Food is processed to the point where most of the nutritional value is processed out of it. Healthy food is fresh food, raw and unprocessed. But the only people making money off fresh food is farmers.

But no, Eddie's question is beyond stupid, and your suggestion shows you're have about as much knowledge of how the economy functions as Eddie does, which quite, isn't much.

Here is a question for you? What percentage of American wealth is owned by the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations in the US?

Far too much. You won't get any disagreement from me that big money runs our society. But what you're not recognizing is how the regulation and market manipulation you advocate feeds their purposes - they use it to their benefit. They use it to inhibit competition, to insure themselves against risk via bailouts, to control the market place to favor their interests and, now, even to force us to buy their products. How much blood to we have to give these leeches?

If liberals wanted to find some common ground with libertarians, and conservatives who aren't authoritarian corporatists - and perhaps build real, broad consensus for reform - they'd focus on looking at how the rules are slanted to favor wealthy interests and propose changes.

Instead, they crow about the DOW maxing out and propose another buck or two be added to the minimum wage. Whodathunk the Democrats would be selling "trickle down"?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You already have a situation where Monsanto is suing farmers for saving seed and driving up the cost of farming.

again near perfect jaw dropping liberal stupidity. Monsanto seeds produce far more prolifically and drop the price of food prolifically! It and other break through developments like it are the reason more people can afford more food today than at any other time in human history.

That you don't know that is beyond belief to an sane person.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Food is processed to the point where most of the nutritional value is processed out of it.

pure perfect 100% liberal ignorance!! If true life expectency would be the lowest ever not the highest.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Here is a question for you? What percentage of American wealth is owned by the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations in the US?

is that a profound question??

1) More importantly, what percent of the inventions that save and enrich our lives were invented by the top 20%


2) If they don't deserve all that wealth prove it by not buying their products, but don't be a common thief and steal the money you gave them at the price they asked!

Do you want liberal government violence to replace all peaceful capitalist transactions in our society??

 

[pjnlsn]

In general, most healthcare programs of European countries are far more efficient than the corresponding programs here, even as we have far more money. There's no reason why efficient healthcare couldn't be providing by the government, for all, or very nearly so, if political will was entirely focused in that direction.

Realistically, the government and military industries are already quite intertwined, so w/e. :shrug:

 

[pjnlsn]

Food is processed to the point where most of the nutritional value is processed out of it.

pure perfect 100% liberal ignorance!! If true life expectency would be the lowest ever not the highest.

The cheapest food is processed enough that to consume the same materials in their original forms would make one far healthier over time. Bread is a good example.

EDIT: I.e. there's a reason that diabetes is so prevalent among the poor, for example.

 

[pjnlsn]

Here is a question for you? What percentage of American wealth is owned by the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations in the US?

is that a profound question??

1) More importantly, what percent of the inventions that save and enrich our lives were invented by the top 20%


2) If they don't deserve all that wealth prove it by not buying their products, but don't be a common thief and steal the money you gave them at the price they asked!

Do you want liberal government violence to replace all peaceful capitalist transactions in our society??

The majority of people don't want it to be that way, where wealth is super concentrated in the upper strata. And offhand, there is that saying that necessity is the mother of invention, and I doubt the very rich do much inventing, regardless of what the people they pay come up with, even if it's at the behest of the man at the top.