The myths of high cost healthcare

[Dragonlady]

Eddie, your whole "a liberal will lack the IQ to . . ." makes YOU look dumber than a sack of hammers.

The US cannot currently go to a single payer system. The system is too large and too complex and too much would have to change. There are extreme shortages of doctors in some areas and that's with only 85% of your population covered. With 100% of the population insured on an equal basis, where more money can't buy you quicker service, well, your current services would soon be overwhelmed and waiting lists would exist.

The current level of health care in the US is dependent upon one level of care for the wealthy, and an entirely different level of care for those who cannot afford it. Levelling the playing field won't work and it will send the existing system, into chaos.

The ACA should have included a public option. That would have allowed a single payer system to take root, build a base and start eroding the for-profits. The public option would have been the wedge into reducing administration costs without reducing services.

What really needs to be looked at is streamlining and simplifying the billing and payment process, and drastically reducing/eliminating the pre-approval process. This would cut out a lot of time and money wasted. The problem with insurance companies is that they have entire departments devoted to reducing the amount of the claims paid. The costs of eliminating fraud and waste are generally higher than the $$$ such efforts save.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This is in CANADA??

You really do have terrible insurance.

Can't be Canada. We only pay about $2000 for our insurance and we have no co-pays at all other than $5 for a prescription. Co-pays on doctors visits or hospital stays are illegal here.

Before ObamaCare:


The following ‘Universal Healthcare’ countries have higher out-of-pocket costs than the United States:
Out-of-pocket spending as a share of total expenditure on health, 1980-2000 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/53/22364122.pdf (table 4)
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/22364122.pdf
Canada, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The US cannot currently go to a single payer system.

If i said it could I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal strawman between your legs.

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will have a low IQ???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

start eroding the for-profits. .

does the perfect fool liberal want to erode the for profits in all industries or just health care. Can you admit to being a communist or that they are getting rich in China now that they have switched to for profit capitalism.

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow? Can't you get your husband to help you respond intellligently??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The problem with insurance companies is that they have entire departments devoted to reducing the amount of the claims paid.

dear, as a liberal this subject is way too much for you. Where is your husband???

In fact, all companies have many many departments devoted to reducing costs!! It only hurts in health care because liberals made competition illegal among health insurance companies.

If they did that in say the auto industry a company could reduce costs by taking brakes off cars. But thanks to Republican capitalist competition they cant do that.

This is an amazing day for you. You're learning your ABC's. You're husband will be so proud.

 

[Dragonlady]

dear, as a liberal this subject is way too much for you. Where is your husband???

Eddie, I would engage you in a battle of wits but I make it a policy never to do battle with an unarmed man. You're just butt hurt because none of your arguments make any sort of sense.

Health care and education are not like building widgets. The "cost savings" involves people lives and their futures. These are not areas where we should be allowing the "for profit" ideal of reducing costs through denial of service and other crap. It should be the best interests of the patients/students firsts, profits being secondary.

This is not a car, or a house, these are human beings. Their lives should not be in the hands of the lowest bidder.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The "cost savings" involves people lives and their futures.

dear you are too slow by a factor of 1000? If a car company reduces costs by taking out the brakes would you buy the car when doing so would kill you??

Is that really too complicated for you??

Now you must see why we say ,slow????
Im sorry but I insist you clear your response through your husband.

 

[dblack]

dear, as a liberal this subject is way too much for you. Where is your husband???

Eddie, I would engage you in a battle of wits but I make it a policy never to do battle with an unarmed man...

Really?

 

[Dragonlady]

Before ObamaCare:


The following ‘Universal Healthcare’ countries have higher out-of-pocket costs than the United States:
Out-of-pocket spending as a share of total expenditure on health, 1980-2000 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/53/22364122.pdf (table 4)
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/22364122.pdf
Canada, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

I guess you missed the part which read:

b) Data refer to 1988 for Canada and Italy.

25 year old data on health care expenses is useless considering the changes in pricing structure over the years, both for health care and insurance.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Before ObamaCare:


The following ‘Universal Healthcare’ countries have higher out-of-pocket costs than the United States:
Out-of-pocket spending as a share of total expenditure on health, 1980-2000 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/53/22364122.pdf (table 4)
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/22364122.pdf
Canada, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

I guess you missed the part which read:

b) Data refer to 1988 for Canada and Italy.

25 year old data on health care expenses is useless considering the changes in pricing structure over the years, both for health care and insurance.

Can you provide more current data that shows a decrease in the relative out of pocket expenses, or a reversal of said costs.

 

[Dragonlady]

Can you provide more current data that shows a decrease in the relative out of pocket expenses, or a reversal of said costs.

There are no such studies. And the information presented in your study provides that Table pretty much as an aside, and doesn't provide any information as to what those numbers relate to. What exactly do those numbers mean? Do you have any idea? I don't.

There are no co-pays in Canada for doctors or hospitals. Period. They are illegal. Co-pays for drugs - yes, dental - yes, but not doctors or hospitals.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Can you provide more current data that shows a decrease in the relative out of pocket expenses, or a reversal of said costs.

There are no such studies. And the information presented in your study provides that Table pretty much as an aside, and doesn't provide any information as to what those numbers relate to. What exactly do those numbers mean? Do you have any idea? I don't.

There are no co-pays in Canada for doctors or hospitals. Period. They are illegal. Co-pays for drugs - yes, dental - yes, but not doctors or hospitals.

why does Canada matter? We have more cat scanners in Pittsburg than they have in the entire country. We subsidize them because they are so poor and people die waiting for the bureaucrats to respond to their ailments. Plus we have the added burden of inventing health care( we hold 80% of the worlds new health care patents), and we do it all with a system that is more socialized then theirs.

 

[Dragonlady]

why does Canada matter? We have more cat scanners in Pittsburg than they have in the entire country. We subsidize them because they are so poor and people die waiting for the bureaucrats to respond to their ailments. Plus we have the added burden of inventing health care( we hold 80% of the worlds new health care patents), and we do it all with a system that is more socialized then theirs.

Bullshit. There isn't a word of truth in that entire post.

The US has the most medical research because you can make more money off your patents in the US than in any other country.

People are not dying in Canada waiting for treatment. More Americans cross the border to get cheap treatment in Canada, than the other way around.

Your ignorance of anything that isn't American is endless.

 

[Deepbluediver]

My employer paid $10,000 for my husband and myself for health benefits. My healthcare bill in charges submitted for 2011 was $6822.25 but the insurance company only allowed $3499.54. Out of that they paid only $374.74 for the year 2011. I am responsible for the balance. The insurance company profited just on us alone for 2011 $9793.46

So it sounds like what you are saying is...you should be allowed to shop around and pick whichever health insurance plan you want, or even not buy one at all if you think will save you money.

 

[dblack]

My employer paid $10,000 for my husband and myself for health benefits. My healthcare bill in charges submitted for 2011 was $6822.25 but the insurance company only allowed $3499.54. Out of that they paid only $374.74 for the year 2011. I am responsible for the balance. The insurance company profited just on us alone for 2011 $9793.46

So it sounds like what you are saying is...you should be allowed to shop around and pick whichever health insurance plan you want, or even not buy one at all if you think will save you money.

That's crazy talk. We can't have people making their own decisions. The insurance lobby knows what's best for us. We should just listen to them and do as we're told.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

People are not dying in Canada waiting for treatment. .

Please dear where is your husband when you need him???


Chaoulli v. Quebec
The majority opinion stated: "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care".

Middle-aged 'being denied cancer surgery' - Telegraph

 

[Dragonlady]

Chaoulli v. Quebec
The majority opinion stated: "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care".

Middle-aged 'being denied cancer surgery' - Telegraph

The case you cited first went to the Quebec Court of Appeal in 2002, which means that the was based on the situation with waiting lists which was prevelent around the turn of the century.

During that time frame the Conservative government of Mike Harris cut $4.5 billion from the Ontario Government Budget, closing 20 hospitals, firing 6,000 nurses, and closing 10,000 hospital beds. Yes people died on waiting lists at that time.

Lots of people died because of the cost cutting of the Harris Conservatives. Harris wanted to bring in US style health care. Since the Conservatives lost the 2003 election, the province has been rebuilding our health care system and our public schools, but those waiting lists for cancer care no longer exist.

Every province in Canada is within target treatment times for all forms of cancer. Once again your data is out of date and useless.

The second article you posted is about the UK, not Canada.

 

[rdean]

This is in CANADA??

You really do have terrible insurance.

My insurance pays most of our bills with low or no co-pays.

As mentioned, your insurance company must pay $.80 of every dollar to patient care. If they don't, they must refund it. You might want to look into that.

Luddly loves insurance companies. And they love him.

It's cons that appear to love insurance companies ... they're against single payer.

All I can figure out is they don't know the true cost of healthcare because they don't have healthcare. What else could it be? I think many USMB Republicans don't have jobs or money or healthcare. In fact, I suspect many are missing most of their "teeth".

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The US has the most medical research because you can make more money off your patents in the US than in any other country.

who cares why don't all the other countries of the world do the same thing so we can all live to 150!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too stupid, do you want us to be like the other countries so there is no money to be made and health care imporvements come to a stop!!

THe USA is a precious conservative jewel that is the source of civilization on earth!!

 

[rdean]

The US has the most medical research because you can make more money off your patents in the US than in any other country.

who cares why don't all the other countries of the world do the same thing so we can all live to 150!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too stupid, do you want us to be like the other countries so there is no money to be made and health care imporvements come to a stop!!

THe USA is a precious conservative jewel that is the source of civilization on earth!!

And yet, they are so good at starting wars, redistributing wealth to the top 1%, wrecking economies, and apologizing to oil companies.

Let him die.

Feed the poor and they will breed.

We have no smart people.

Education is for snobs.

So "civilized".