The Myth of only raising taxes on those making over $250,000

[Zoomie1980]

What are you suggesting, that we pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, shut down all off shore US military bases and embassies, ban all imports/exports, shut down the UN, chuck every foreign embassy out off US soil, and build a great wall around US borders.

Will that make the US safe enough for your kids? I don’t believe it will or that a scenario which includes any of the above would be feasible.

When it comes to maintaining the freedom and safety of this country, I don't have a problem paying higher taxes, even if it means supporting a war effort, neither should anybody else, and if it does they should pack up and leave. What I do have a problem with is this Robin Hood tax plan. Not one red cent of this proposed tax increase will be applied to the deficit or do anything to help us get out of the financial crisis we’re facing.

I’m no more content with the deficit than any other reasonable tax paying citizen. I believe going into Iraq the way we did was wrong, and to this day, I believe it should have been a covert operation. I remember telling my wife the day Bush announced the invasion of Iraq that: The son of a bitch is going after Hussein to avenge the assassination attempt on his father’s life. Yes, that's harsh and probably wrong, but it was literally the first thought that came to mind upon hearing that news.

Unfortunately for US, and again; in my opinion, once Bush got his trophy he realized that it was too late to get out. He didn’t count on the ramifications of taking Hussein out and apparently only a few in his cabinet did. I’ll end my rant about the war in Iraq with one more observation: Personally, I think that’s why Powell walked.

Now, let me get back to the subject matter of my thread which I had stopped following once it was derailed.

In my opinion, neither of the tax plans of either of the buffoons who are about to inherit the White House is going to address our real problem which is: The balance of wealth in America has become so skewed that our society, as a whole, is in jeopardy. Furthermore, I speculate that throwing more money at welfare programs or trying to educate the poorest of America is exactly the wrong approach to solving the problem. You see, I come from the poorest of America and I struggled to attain every asset I own. Thus, I don’t believe being poor equates to being hopelessly stupid.

Call me a radical if you like, but I believe we need to create a welfare program to educate America’s wealthiest, to teach them that it’s their responsibility to ensure money remains in circulation amongst the masses, that paying the highest possible wage and charging the least possible amount for goods and services is not going to deplete their personal piggy banks while they continue to make a reasonable profit, but rather it will steadily nurture their accounts by addressing social issues including poverty and crime, as well as increase productivity and the quality of life; for everybody, including them. We need to teach them that life is not about obtaining the most marbles but rather that everybody who’s willing to participate in the game has enough marbles to play.

For Christ’s sake, how much money is enough? Can the Gates’ or Buffets’, or Allens’ or Waltons’, or any of the other 396 of America’s wealthiest families ever utilize all their wealth? Personally, I don’t believe they an.

No, I’m afraid we continue to target the wrong audience with our welfare and the majority of our education programs, in the same manner that we continue to elect millionaires, the smallest minority of our population, to represent the poorest majority of our population. Until we collectively recognize this problem as self evident and take action to change it, I believe we’ll continue down the selfish path of the few, at the devastating expense of the many.

The real challenge lies not in the legislation of wealth, but in educating those who have it in the understanding and management of it. If or until we come together as a people and recognize that and do something about it, regardless of race, sex, or religion, I don’t believe the Change We Need will never come.

Just as this post started everything herein is my opinion. If you disagree with it, be all means; share your own solution with us rather than trying to discredit mine.



Another edit… Just so it’s clear and this thread isn’t discredited by some left wingnut as plagiarism, I found the original post of this thread on one of those knucklehead extreme right wing websites while searching for something entirely different. The reason I didn’t link it back to that site was to avoid giving the left wingnuts that troll is board an opportunity to discredit the post based on where it came from because: I believe every word of the initial post and I adopted it as my own – with some modifications.

Sarah Palin is not a millionaire. The first such major party ticket candidate to not be so since WWII.....

 

[Zoomie1980]

That's the ultimate make work job, isn't it, making war? It did get people back to work.



Failing to veto one single spending bill he was sent by the Republican controlled Congress in six long years didn't have a thing to do with the deficit. No siree, not a thing. Asking for Congress to pass spending bills didn't add to the deficit at all, either.

He also signed all the Democratic spending bills as well. Again, Congress spends the money, not the President. Clinton signed all the republican spending bills as well. Truth is, Presidential vetoes of spending bills are EXTREMELY RARE.

 

[Care4all]

He also signed all the Democratic spending bills as well. Again, Congress spends the money, not the President. Clinton signed all the republican spending bills as well. Truth is, Presidential vetoes of spending bills are EXTREMELY RARE.

please STOP with the mistruths!!!!

President Clinton vetoed MANY appropriations bills...so stop making up crap!!!! i realize this is probably a LIE you were told by the republican side of the aisle and you just believed it without checking it but for goodness sakes, YOU should know better and look it up, google it, before you continue to pass on their lie....

President Clinton's Vetoes

Table 1. President Clinton’s Vetoes
Bill Number Date ofVeto Title OverrideAttempt
H.R. 115806/07/95Second SupplementalAppropriations and RescissionsAct for FY1995No attempt.

S. 2108/11/95Bosnia and HerzegovinaSelf-Defense Act of 1995No attempt.

H.R. 185410/03/95Legislative BranchAppropriations for FY1996No attempt.

H.R. 258611/13/95Increase in the StatutoryDebt LimitNo attempt.

H.J.Res. 11511/14/95Second Continuing Resolutionfor FY1996No attempt.

H.R. 249112/06/95Budget ReconciliationNo attempt.

H.R. 197712/18/95Interior Appropriationsfor FY1996House sustained01/04/96 by239-177.

H.R. 209912/18/95Veterans Affairs and Housingand Urban DevelopmentAppropriations for FY1996No attempt.

H.R. 207612/19/95Commerce, Justice, and State Appropriations for FY1995House sustained01/03/96 by240-159.

CRS-3Bill NumberDate ofVetoTitleOverrideAttempt

H.R. 105812/19/95Securities Litigation Reform ActHouse overrode12/20/95 by319-100, Senateoverrode12/22/95 by 68-30. P.L. 104-67.

H.R. 153012/28/95Defense Authorizationsfor FY1996House sustained01/03/96 by240-156.

H.R. 401/09/96Welfare Reform ActNo attempt.

H.R. 183304/10/96Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of1995House overrode09/19/96 by285-137. Senatesustained09/26/96 by 57-41.

H.R. 156104/12/96American Overseas Interest Actof 1996House sustained04/30/96 by234-188.

H.R. 95605/02/96Common Sense Product LiabilityLegal Reform Act of 1996House sustained05/09/96 by258-163.

H.R. 74306/30/96Teamwork for Employees andManagers Act of 1996No attempt.

H.R. 290910/02/96Amends Silvio O. Conte NationalFish and Wildlife Refuge ActNo attempt.H.R. 146906/09/97Flood Relief BillNo attempt.

H.R. 112210/10/97Partial Birth AbortionHouse overrode07/23/98 by296-132. Senatesustained 09/18/98 by 64-36.

H.R. 263111/13/97Disapproving CancellationsHouse overrode02/05/98 by347-69. Senateoverrode02/25/98 by 78-20. P.L. 105-159. S. 150205/20/98D.C. Student VouchersNo attempt.

H.R. 270906/23/98Iran Sanctions BillNo attempt

CRS-4Bill NumberDate ofVetoTitleOverrideAttempt

H.R. 264607/21/98Education Savings Account No attempt.

H.R. 410110/07/98FY1999 AgricultureAppropriationsNo attempt.

H.R. 175710/21/98Foreign Affairs ReformNo attempt.H.R. 248809/23/99Tax Relief BillNo attempt.

H.R. 258709/28/99D.C. Appropriations, FY2000No attempt.

H.R. 260610/18/99Foreign Operations Spending,FY2000No attempt.

H.R. 267010/26/99Commerce, Justice, and StateAppropriations, FY2000No attempt.

H.R. 306411/03/99District of ColumbiaAppropriations, FY2000 andEducation, Labor, and HHS Appropriations, FY2000No attempt.

S. 128704/25/00Nuclear Waste PolicyAmendments Act of 2000Senate sustained05/03/00 by 64-35.

H.R. 481008/05/00Marriage Tax Relief BillHouse sustained09/13/00 by270-158.

H.R. 808/31/00Estate Tax Elimination ActHouse sustained09/07/00 by274-157

H.R. 473310/07/00Energy and Water DevelopmentHouse overrode10/11/00 by315-98. Senatereferred veto tocommittee

H.R. 451610/30/00Legislative Branch and TreasuryAppropriationsNo attempt.

H.R. 439211/04/00Intelligence Authorization BillNo attempt.

H.R. 241512/19/00Consumer Bankruptcy OverhaulActPocket veto.

There were a multitude of bills passed by congress on appropriations that President Clinton vetoed....

Let truth set you free!

Care

 

[Skeptik]

please STOP with the mistruths!!!!

President Clinton vetoed MANY appropriations bills...so stop making up crap!!!!

But, but,.... The only way to show Bush as a fiscal conservative is by making up crap!

The alternative is to recognize that the Bush administration is just as liberal as any Democratic administration before him, and that his Republican controlled Congress was far from fiscally responsible.

If that is recognized, then the main talking point of the Republican partisans, that the Democrats are the party of big government liberalism, simply can't be sustained.

The only alternative, then, would be to actually think for oneself instead of simply repeating the party line. Thinking is hard work, and isn't a popular activity. It is so much easier to simply repeat what is broadcast on rant radio.

 

[Turboswede]

But, but,.... The only way to show Bush as a fiscal conservative is by making up crap!

I know, it kills my William F. Buckley Republican buddies to admit that the most fiscally conservative president of the past 50 years was a, gasp, Democrat.

 

[Skeptik]

But, but,.... The only way to show Bush as a fiscal conservative is by making up crap!

I know, it kills my William F. Buckley Republican buddies to admit that the most fiscally conservative president of the past 50 years was a, gasp, Democrat.

I haven't heard too many admit it. It must be very difficult to do so.

 

[Zoomie1980]

please STOP with the mistruths!!!!

President Clinton vetoed MANY appropriations bills...so stop making up crap!!!! i realize this is probably a LIE you were told by the republican side of the aisle and you just believed it without checking it but for goodness sakes, YOU should know better and look it up, google it, before you continue to pass on their lie....

President Clinton's Vetoes



There were a multitude of bills passed by congress on appropriations that President Clinton vetoed....

Let truth set you free!

Care

Every one of those were altered, mostly very little, and resubmitted, and eventually passed, sometimes after extensive government shutdowns, but all eventually passed in largely their original form.

Presidents have NO power over ANYTHING. They are useless figureheads in modern, 21st Century America. Why people even give a damn about a President or what he does is beyond common sense. They are useless.

 

[Zoomie1980]

But, but,.... The only way to show Bush as a fiscal conservative is by making up crap!

I haven't heard too many admit it. It must be very difficult to do so.

Clinton was a very good Republican. Obama will be too. A hell of a lot better Republican than Bush was!!!

Pelosi and Reed's agenda is dead before it even gets started....you can count on that.

 

[Care4all]

Every one of those were altered, mostly very little, and resubmitted, and eventually passed, sometimes after extensive government shutdowns, but all eventually passed in largely their original form.

Presidents have NO power over ANYTHING. They are useless figureheads in modern, 21st Century America. Why people even give a damn about a President or what he does is beyond common sense. They are useless.

zoomie....look to the right of each veto....it shows which vetos stood, and it shows which ones were over ridden, AND it shows which ones were sent off to committee to make changes that were later passed and signed....

clinton was an ego maniac and made his pen power known to congress every chance he could....he also was the most fiscally responsible democratic President we have had in resent history...he crossed the democrats on many issues, he was a centrist, ruled from the middle....i give credit where credit is due!

care

 

[Zoomie1980]

zoomie....look to the right of each veto....it shows which vetos stood, and it shows which ones were over ridden, AND it shows which ones were sent off to committee to make changes that were later passed and signed....

clinton was an ego maniac and made his pen power known to congress every chance he could....he also was the most fiscally responsible democratic President we have had in resent history...he crossed the democrats on many issues, he was a centrist, ruled from the middle....i give credit where credit is due!

care

Most all the appropriations vetoed were rolled into to other bills via ammendment and most all eventually passed in some for or another. Bill Clinton was a fairly good Republican President, once his medical reform was killed, and Congress turned Republican on him.

Obama appears to be set on being a good Republican, too. Much to the chagrin of the wide-eyed left who are all giddy over his win....Pelosi and Reid have just become irrelevant, there's a new Big Dog coming to town and he's no real friend of theirs....

 

[Paulie]

Obama appears to be set on being a good Republican, too. Much to the chagrin of the wide-eyed left who are all giddy over his win....Pelosi and Reid have just become irrelevant, there's a new Big Dog coming to town and he's no real friend of theirs....

I really hope you're right.

 

[Skeptik]

Every one of those were altered, mostly very little, and resubmitted, and eventually passed, sometimes after extensive government shutdowns, but all eventually passed in largely their original form.

Presidents have NO power over ANYTHING. They are useless figureheads in modern, 21st Century America. Why people even give a damn about a President or what he does is beyond common sense. They are useless.

So, you think that the commander in chief of the most powerful armed forces on the planet is powerless?

The executive branch is still 1/3 of the government.

 

[Zoomie1980]

So, you think that the commander in chief of the most powerful armed forces on the planet is powerless?

The executive branch is still 1/3 of the government.

Nonsense. Congress completely nuetered the Commander in Chief role with the War Powers Act after Vietnam. Before that a President could deploy any number of troops, indefinitely and never need Congressional approval. All Congress could do was not fund them. The President is a mostly useless figurehead with no real power.

I WISH he had 33% of the power. Appoint judges WITHOUT Congressional approval, deploy troops WITHOUT congressional approval, and a line item veto. If he had that he'd approach that one third. But today he doesn't even have 10%....

 

[Turboswede]

Nonsense. Congress completely nuetered the Commander in Chief role with the War Powers Act after Vietnam. Before that a President could deploy any number of troops, indefinitely and never need Congressional approval. All Congress could do was not fund them. The President is a mostly useless figurehead with no real power.

I WISH he had 33% of the power. Appoint judges WITHOUT Congressional approval, deploy troops WITHOUT congressional approval, and a line item veto. If he had that he'd approach that one third. But today he doesn't even have 10%....

But then W could just apoint Judges that would find his use of the military to supress elections legal, is that the power you want the president to have?

 

[Care4all]

Nonsense. Congress completely nuetered the Commander in Chief role with the War Powers Act after Vietnam. Before that a President could deploy any number of troops, indefinitely and never need Congressional approval. All Congress could do was not fund them. The President is a mostly useless figurehead with no real power.

I WISH he had 33% of the power. Appoint judges WITHOUT Congressional approval, deploy troops WITHOUT congressional approval, and a line item veto. If he had that he'd approach that one third. But today he doesn't even have 10%....

why would you want your president to appoint judges, deploy troops WITHOUT congressional approval.....do you want a DICTATOR? I'm sorry but those things that affect us should never be done without us having OUR representation!!!! NEVER, EVER, EVER!!!!! MY representative does NOT JUST represent me on money issues, but on issue that would affect me or my family.

the government doesn't rule us zoomie, we rule them and people that have let our government rule us, is where the real problems lie.

Just think about it!?!

care

 

[Skeptik]

Nonsense. Congress completely nuetered the Commander in Chief role with the War Powers Act after Vietnam. Before that a President could deploy any number of troops, indefinitely and never need Congressional approval. All Congress could do was not fund them. The President is a mostly useless figurehead with no real power.

I WISH he had 33% of the power. Appoint judges WITHOUT Congressional approval, deploy troops WITHOUT congressional approval, and a line item veto. If he had that he'd approach that one third. But today he doesn't even have 10%....

Without that dang old pesky Constitution, it would be a lot easier to wage war, wouldn't it?