The Myth of Occupied Territories

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine got its first fully elected constitutional government in January 2006. The elections were judged free and fair by all international observers. The US and Israel starved the Palestinians for electing the wrong people. A new government was proposed by the Mecca agreement in February 2007. That government was legally constituted in March. The US and Israel had that government destroyed by June.

Well, so much for the Palestinians inability to form a government.

Question: Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?

(COMMENT)

I don't know. Maybe the Basic Law speaks to that.

It has been how long, since the last election? What is the term for the HAMAS elected government? Is it like the Ruling Elite, once elected, permanently in power?

I cannot answer.

Article 3: Electing the President

1. The President shall be elected via secret balloting in general, free and direct elections. The winner shall be the person who acquired the absolute majority of correct electors’ votes. If none of the candidates acquires such majority the top two candidates shall run for another round of elections within fifteen days from the day the final results were published. The winner shall be the candidate who acquires the highest number of votes in this round.

2. The presidential office term shall be four years. He/she shall not be elected for more than two terms.​

Article 43

The President of the National Authority shall have the right, in cases of necessity that cannot be delayed, and when the Legislative Council is not in session, to issue decrees that have the power of law. These decrees shall be presented to the Legislative Council in the first session convened after their issuance; otherwise they will cease to have the power of law. If these decrees are presented to the Legislative Council, as mentioned above, but are not approved by the latter, then they shall cease to have the power of law.​

SOURCE: THE PALESTINIAN BASIC LAW

SOURCE: A decree issued by a law number ( ) of 2007, pertaining the general elections

When was the last election held by the Palestinians?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hummm?

The All Palestine Government was formed in Gaza in September 1948. It was comprised of about 80 Palestinian leaders. They declared independence from the defunct mandate and advised the UN only to have the UN divide Palestine into three areas of occupation the following year. The UN stated that the Palestine question would be addressed later. Well it has been later since 1949 and the UN is still sitting around with its thumb up is ass.

(QUESTION)

Let's see. Who formed the APG? [May be the Arab League ( Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen)(less Jordan).]

• Israel declare independence in MAY.
• Palestinians declared independence in September.

Which one of these was:

Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947,

SOURCE: The connection of the Palestinian people to Palestine has been deeply rooted for thousands of years and this relationship is eloquently reflected in the Declaration of Independence adopted on 15 November 1988 in Algiers, Algeria by the Palestine National Council when the independence of the State of Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital, was declared.

The principle sponsor of the APG was Egypt, and it was Egypt that annulled (invalid from the beginning) the APG in 1959. While the members may have been Palestinian, the APG was an extension of Egyptian influence; conceived by Egypt and Terminated by Egypt. It was Palestinian only in complexion.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine got its first fully elected constitutional government in January 2006. The elections were judged free and fair by all international observers. The US and Israel starved the Palestinians for electing the wrong people. A new government was proposed by the Mecca agreement in February 2007. That government was legally constituted in March. The US and Israel had that government destroyed by June.

Well, so much for the Palestinians inability to form a government.

Question: Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?

(COMMENT)

I don't know. Maybe the Basic Law speaks to that.

It has been how long, since the last election? What is the term for the HAMAS elected government? Is it like the Ruling Elite, once elected, permanently in power?

I cannot answer.

Perhaps if you answer my question it would answer many of yours.

The Presidents term in office is 4 years. Abbas' term in office expired Jan. 9, 2009. The president is to call for an election at least three months before the end of his term. He didn't do that. Abbas left the government in June of 2007 without following the resignation procedures.

The government (according to law is the PM and his Ministers) has no specific term limit. The government is to serve until replaced by the president according to constitutional procedures. The unity government of March, 2007 was the last legally constituted government.

Article 3: Electing the President

1. The President shall be elected via secret balloting in general, free and direct elections. The winner shall be the person who acquired the absolute majority of correct electors’ votes. If none of the candidates acquires such majority the top two candidates shall run for another round of elections within fifteen days from the day the final results were published. The winner shall be the candidate who acquires the highest number of votes in this round.

2. The presidential office term shall be four years. He/she shall not be elected for more than two terms.​

Article 43

The President of the National Authority shall have the right, in cases of necessity that cannot be delayed, and when the Legislative Council is not in session, to issue decrees that have the power of law. These decrees shall be presented to the Legislative Council in the first session convened after their issuance; otherwise they will cease to have the power of law. If these decrees are presented to the Legislative Council, as mentioned above, but are not approved by the latter, then they shall cease to have the power of law.​

SOURCE: THE PALESTINIAN BASIC LAW

SOURCE: A decree issued by a law number ( ) of 2007, pertaining the general elections

When was the last election held by the Palestinians?

January, 2006. The PA is to hold elections every four years but who is the PA?

The election decree, above, should have been presented to the legislature for approval. It was not. Where is the legitimacy of that decree?

Perhaps if you answer my question, "Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?" It would answer many of yours.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine got its first fully elected constitutional government in January 2006. The elections were judged free and fair by all international observers. The US and Israel starved the Palestinians for electing the wrong people. A new government was proposed by the Mecca agreement in February 2007. That government was legally constituted in March. The US and Israel had that government destroyed by June.

Well, so much for the Palestinians inability to form a government.

Question: Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?

(COMMENT)

I don't know. Maybe the Basic Law speaks to that.

It has been how long, since the last election? What is the term for the HAMAS elected government? Is it like the Ruling Elite, once elected, permanently in power?

I cannot answer.

Perhaps if you answer my question it would answer many of yours.

The Presidents term in office is 4 years. Abbas' term in office expired Jan. 9, 2009. The president is to call for an election at least three months before the end of his term. He didn't do that. Abbas left the government in June of 2007 without following the resignation procedures.

The government (according to law is the PM and his Ministers) has no specific term limit. The government is to serve until replaced by the president according to constitutional procedures. The unity government of March, 2007 was the last legally constituted government.

When was the last election held by the Palestinians?

January, 2006. The PA is to hold elections every four years but who is the PA?

The election decree, above, should have been presented to the legislature for approval. It was not. Where is the legitimacy of that decree?

Perhaps if you answer my question, "Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?" It would answer many of yours.

Most Respectfully,
R

wow, just wow

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Like I said, it is a government in chaos.

Palestine got its first fully elected constitutional government in January 2006. The elections were judged free and fair by all international observers. The US and Israel starved the Palestinians for electing the wrong people. A new government was proposed by the Mecca agreement in February 2007. That government was legally constituted in March. The US and Israel had that government destroyed by June.

Well, so much for the Palestinians inability to form a government.

Question: Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?

(COMMENT)

I don't know. Maybe the Basic Law speaks to that.

(BTW: The Palestinian legislative council has been unable to meet and govern since 2007 due to the Israeli imprisonment of some members, the Fatah–Hamas conflict and the indefinite postponing of elections by the Fatah leadership.]

It has been how long, since the last election? What is the term for the HAMAS elected government? Is it like the Ruling Elite, once elected, permanently in power?

I cannot answer.

Perhaps if you answer my question it would answer many of yours.

The Presidents term in office is 4 years. Abbas' term in office expired Jan. 9, 2009. The president is to call for an election at least three months before the end of his term. He didn't do that. Abbas left the government in June of 2007 without following the resignation procedures.

The government (according to law is the PM and his Ministers) has no specific term limit. The government is to serve until replaced by the president according to constitutional procedures. The unity government of March, 2007 was the last legally constituted government.

When was the last election held by the Palestinians?

January, 2006. The PA is to hold elections every four years but who is the PA?

The election decree, above, should have been presented to the legislature for approval. It was not. Where is the legitimacy of that decree?

Perhaps if you answer my question, "Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?" It would answer many of yours.

(COMMENT)

Best guess, the PLO-EC,,, I suppose. I don't know. But it seems to have happened. And, it appears that the HAMAS Government has run through it term.

As I said, a government in chaos. It seems that the Palestinians don't know anymore today about running a government than they did in 1948 (unable to stand alone - an Article 22 people).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Like I said, it is a government in chaos.

(COMMENT)

I don't know. Maybe the Basic Law speaks to that.

(BTW: The Palestinian legislative council has been unable to meet and govern since 2007 due to the Israeli imprisonment of some members, the Fatah–Hamas conflict and the indefinite postponing of elections by the Fatah leadership.]

It has been how long, since the last election? What is the term for the HAMAS elected government? Is it like the Ruling Elite, once elected, permanently in power?

I cannot answer.

Perhaps if you answer my question it would answer many of yours.

The Presidents term in office is 4 years. Abbas' term in office expired Jan. 9, 2009. The president is to call for an election at least three months before the end of his term. He didn't do that. Abbas left the government in June of 2007 without following the resignation procedures.

The government (according to law is the PM and his Ministers) has no specific term limit. The government is to serve until replaced by the president according to constitutional procedures. The unity government of March, 2007 was the last legally constituted government.

When was the last election held by the Palestinians?

January, 2006. The PA is to hold elections every four years but who is the PA?

The election decree, above, should have been presented to the legislature for approval. It was not. Where is the legitimacy of that decree?

Perhaps if you answer my question, "Fatah lost the elections. How did it get to be the government in the West Bank?" It would answer many of yours.

(COMMENT)

Best guess, the PLO-EC,,, I suppose. I don't know. But it seems to have happened. And, it appears that the HAMAS Government has run through it term.

As I said, a government in chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, and you again fail to answer the question that would answer your questions.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know the answer. It would appears that the PLO-EC made the change after the HAMAS 4 years ran it course.

Indeed, and you again fail to answer the question that would answer your questions.

It is a government in chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know the answer. It would appears that the PLO-EC made the change after the HAMAS 4 years ran it course.

Indeed, and you again fail to answer the question that would answer your questions.

It is a government in chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

You haven't been reading my posts.

And they are not nearly as verbose as yours.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You merely mimic your unwavering support of HAMAS.

You haven't been reading my posts.

And they are not nearly as verbose as yours.

(COMMENT)

You do nothing to explain the mechanism.

You just keep saying that over 6 years ago, and election was held and HAMAS won. You don't explain anything more than that. You don't explain why there are no more elections or why HAMAS is still a legitimate government.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

You merely mimic your unwavering support of HAMAS.

You just keep saying that over 6 years ago, and election was held and HAMAS won. You don't explain anything more than that.

Do you realize, Israel created Hamas and supported them financially? And the only reason they are the bad guys now, is because they won't kiss Israel's ass, like the PA does.

You don't explain why there are no more elections or why HAMAS is still a legitimate government.

Because they've gone away from terrorism and now are more concerned with doing the things a government usually does for it's citizens.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Hmmm,,, I guess I need to study my terrorist history.

You merely mimic your unwavering support of HAMAS.

You just keep saying that over 6 years ago, and election was held and HAMAS won. You don't explain anything more than that.

Do you realize, Israel created Hamas and supported them financially? And the only reason they are the bad guys now, is because they won't kiss Israel's ass, like the PA does.

(COMMENT)

And all this time I thought that Sheik Ahmed Yassin Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, and Mahmoud Zahar were the organizational founders, as a splinter group of the Muslim Brotherhood (Egyptian Version). They were pushing pan-Islamic political unity and promoting Sharia (Islamic law).

You don't explain why there are no more elections or why HAMAS is still a legitimate government.

Because they've gone away from terrorism and now are more concerned with doing the things a government usually does for it's citizens.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS is a state supporter of terrorism (Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades with several PIJ associates). Saraya Al-Quds, armed wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), held military rally in Gaza Strip just last week with HAMAS approval and support. (See Images & Story)

If the Palestinian people even remotely believe that HAMAS has turned the corner, then they need real help. HAMAS as recently as July of this year, re-affirmed the Machiavellian need to overcome Israel using any means to achieve their ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You merely mimic your unwavering support of HAMAS.

You haven't been reading my posts.

And they are not nearly as verbose as yours.

(COMMENT)

You do nothing to explain the mechanism.

You just keep saying that over 6 years ago, and election was held and HAMAS won. You don't explain anything more than that. You don't explain why there are no more elections or why HAMAS is still a legitimate government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Is the Bush administration violating the law in an effort to provoke a Palestinian civil war?

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government.

While those closest to him now concede the Abrams’ words were issued in a moment of frustration, the “hard coup” talk was hardly just talk. Over the last twelve months, the United States has supplied guns, ammunition and training to Palestinian Fatah activists to take on Hamas in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. A large number of Fatah activists have been trained and “graduated” from two camps — one in Ramallah and one in Jericho. The supplies of rifles and ammunition, which started as a mere trickle, has now become a torrent (Haaretz reports the U.S. has designated an astounding $86.4 million for Abu Mazen’s security detail), and while the program has gone largely without notice in the American press, it is openly talked about and commented on in the Arab media — and in Israel. Thousands of rifles and bullets have been poring into Gaza and the West Bank from Egypt and Jordan, the administration’s designated allies in the program.

At first, it was thought, the resupply effort (initiated under the guise of “assist[ing] the Palestinian Authority presidency in fulfilling PA commitments under the road map to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism and establish law and order in the West Bank and Gaza,” according to a U.S. government document) would strengthen the security forces under the command of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Officials thought that the additional weapons would easily cow Hamas operatives, who would meekly surrender the offices they had only recently so dearly won. That has not only not happened, but the program is under attack throughout the Arab world — particularly among America’s closest allies.
- See more at: Elliot Abrams? Uncivil War : Conflicts Forum

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This projects a political theory on the US reaction towards the HAMAS Regime. It has nothing to do with the why behind the HAMAS vs Fatah Presidencies.

Is the Bush administration violating the law in an effort to provoke a Palestinian civil war?

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government.

While those closest to him now concede the Abrams’ words were issued in a moment of frustration, the “hard coup” talk was hardly just talk. Over the last twelve months, the United States has supplied guns, ammunition and training to Palestinian Fatah activists to take on Hamas in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. A large number of Fatah activists have been trained and “graduated” from two camps — one in Ramallah and one in Jericho. The supplies of rifles and ammunition, which started as a mere trickle, has now become a torrent (Haaretz reports the U.S. has designated an astounding $86.4 million for Abu Mazen’s security detail), and while the program has gone largely without notice in the American press, it is openly talked about and commented on in the Arab media — and in Israel. Thousands of rifles and bullets have been poring into Gaza and the West Bank from Egypt and Jordan, the administration’s designated allies in the program.

At first, it was thought, the resupply effort (initiated under the guise of “assist[ing] the Palestinian Authority presidency in fulfilling PA commitments under the road map to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism and establish law and order in the West Bank and Gaza,” according to a U.S. government document) would strengthen the security forces under the command of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Officials thought that the additional weapons would easily cow Hamas operatives, who would meekly surrender the offices they had only recently so dearly won. That has not only not happened, but the program is under attack throughout the Arab world — particularly among America’s closest allies.

(COMMENT)

It does not explain why HAMAS is still considered a legitimate government, over that of Fatah. The HAMAS Leadership (Khaled Mashaal) was elected by a secret group within HAMAS, which is not so very different from the PLO-EC electing Mahmoud Abbas.

(Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Saturday for elections before September, but rival Islamist group Hamas quickly rejected the move, underscoring a crippling division among Palestinians. BY ALI SAWAFTA - RAMALLAH, West Bank Sat Feb 12, 2011

Khaled Mashaal, Hamas Leader, Won't Seek Re-Election
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Hamas chief Khaled Mashaal has decided not to seek another term, the movement said Saturday, paving the way for a possible leadership contest at a time when the anti-Israeli Islamic group faces far-reaching decisions on ...
The Huffington Post · ByIbrahim Barzak andMohammed Daraghmeh · 1/21/2012

(Associated Press in Cairo) - The Islamic militant group Hamas on Monday re-elected longtime leader Khaled Mashaal, according to officials, choosing a relative pragmatist who has sparred with movement hardliners in the past over his attempt to reconcile with western-backed Palestinian rivals. Monday 1 April 2013​

Some indications are out that Abbas set to announce election date (See MEM Article Monday, 26 August 2013); however, there has been no formal announcement.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[editec]

If the resolution had been implemented maybe it would be possible to argue that it replaced the San Remo Conference resolution, which had legitimized the rights of the Jews to settle in any place in Palestine. However, it was not only rejected by the Arabs, but in violation of the UN Charter they launched a military aggression against the newly reborn Jewish state thus invalidating the resolution. By the time of the cease-fire at the end of the War of Independence there was still no other enforceable document pertaining to the rights of the Jews to settle Eretz Yisrael - they remained intact.

You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there for generations.

Tell THAT to the American Indians.

I suspect they'd laugh and laugh.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This projects a political theory on the US reaction towards the HAMAS Regime. It has nothing to do with the why behind the HAMAS vs Fatah Presidencies.

Is the Bush administration violating the law in an effort to provoke a Palestinian civil war?

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government.

While those closest to him now concede the Abrams’ words were issued in a moment of frustration, the “hard coup” talk was hardly just talk. Over the last twelve months, the United States has supplied guns, ammunition and training to Palestinian Fatah activists to take on Hamas in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. A large number of Fatah activists have been trained and “graduated” from two camps — one in Ramallah and one in Jericho. The supplies of rifles and ammunition, which started as a mere trickle, has now become a torrent (Haaretz reports the U.S. has designated an astounding $86.4 million for Abu Mazen’s security detail), and while the program has gone largely without notice in the American press, it is openly talked about and commented on in the Arab media — and in Israel. Thousands of rifles and bullets have been poring into Gaza and the West Bank from Egypt and Jordan, the administration’s designated allies in the program.

At first, it was thought, the resupply effort (initiated under the guise of “assist[ing] the Palestinian Authority presidency in fulfilling PA commitments under the road map to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism and establish law and order in the West Bank and Gaza,” according to a U.S. government document) would strengthen the security forces under the command of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Officials thought that the additional weapons would easily cow Hamas operatives, who would meekly surrender the offices they had only recently so dearly won. That has not only not happened, but the program is under attack throughout the Arab world — particularly among America’s closest allies.

(COMMENT)

It does not explain why HAMAS is still considered a legitimate government, over that of Fatah. The HAMAS Leadership (Khaled Mashaal) was elected by a secret group within HAMAS, which is not so very different from the PLO-EC electing Mahmoud Abbas.

This has been explained more than once.

The government (according to law is the PM and his Ministers) has no specific term limit. The government is to serve until replaced by the president according to constitutional procedures. The unity government of March, 2007 was the last legally constituted government.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ai-Udti1M]On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat? - YouTube[/ame]

This appointment has been challenged as illegal, because while the Palestinian Basic Law permits the president to dismiss a sitting prime minister, the appointment of a replacement requires the approval of the Legislative Council. The law provides that after removal of the prime minister (in this case, Ismail Haniyeh), the outgoing prime minister heads a caretaker government. The current Legislative Council, in which Hamas holds a majority of seats, has not approved the appointments of Fayyad or the balance of his new government. Fayyad's appointment was never placed before, or approved by it.[12] Haniyeh continues to operate as prime minister in Gaza, and is recognized by a large number of Palestinians as the legitimate acting prime minister. Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared the appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.[13]

Salam Fayyad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you have any questions on this issue?

(Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Saturday for elections before September, but rival Islamist group Hamas quickly rejected the move, underscoring a crippling division among Palestinians. BY ALI SAWAFTA - RAMALLAH, West Bank Sat Feb 12, 2011​

There is too much misinformation in this article for it to be considered a legitimate source.

Khaled Mashaal, Hamas Leader, Won't Seek Re-Election
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Hamas chief Khaled Mashaal has decided not to seek another term, the movement said Saturday, paving the way for a possible leadership contest at a time when the anti-Israeli Islamic group faces far-reaching decisions on ...
The Huffington Post · ByIbrahim Barzak andMohammed Daraghmeh · 1/21/2012

(Associated Press in Cairo) - The Islamic militant group Hamas on Monday re-elected longtime leader Khaled Mashaal, according to officials, choosing a relative pragmatist who has sparred with movement hardliners in the past over his attempt to reconcile with western-backed Palestinian rivals. Monday 1 April 2013​

Some indications are out that Abbas set to announce election date (See MEM Article Monday, 26 August 2013); however, there has been no formal announcement.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

So, basically, your position is:

• That HAMAS, winning one election, holds the Presidency indefinitely.
• That the Article 36, 2005 Amendment to the Basic Law, amending the Term of Presidency is invalid.
• That Article 3 of the 2007 Decree is invalid.

If I understand you correctly, your position is that The HAMAS President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency, without regard to whether he has occupied the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms; since the terms are undefined. No election is required.

So, if this is true, then what kind of government is the State of Palestine?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

So, basically, your position is:

• That HAMAS, winning one election, holds the Presidency indefinitely.
• That the Article 36, 2005 Amendment to the Basic Law, amending the Term of Presidency is invalid.
• That Article 3 of the 2007 Decree is invalid.

If I understand you correctly, your position is that The HAMAS President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency, without regard to whether he has occupied the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms; since the terms are undefined. No election is required.

So, if this is true, then what kind of government is the State of Palestine?

Most Respectfully,
R

WOW, are you confused.

Hamas never had a president. Abbas is Fatah. When a president nominates himself it means to run in the next election, not just grab another term. He is limited to two consecutive terms.

The amendment to article 36 merely changes the presidents term from the interim period to a specific four year term. That is a valid constitutional amendment.

The 2007 decree should have been brought before the legislature for approval or it ceases to be law. That was six years ago and they have not had the opportunity to vote on it yet. I don't see how it could be valid. I think I remember seeing somewhere that a decree is only good for 30 days without legislative approval.

It would be a good government if it was without the illegal external interference.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

In some respects I agree.

Hamas never had a president. Abbas is Fatah. When a president nominates himself it means to run in the next election, not just grab another term. He is limited to two consecutive terms.

(COMMENT)

The Prime Minister is subordinate to the President.

The leadership has exhausted their terms. Technically,

The amendment to article 36 merely changes the presidents term from the interim period to a specific four year term. That is a valid constitutional amendment.

(COMMENT)

If the Presidential terms expires, doesn't the PM term expire?

The 2007 decree should have been brought before the legislature for approval or it ceases to be law. That was six years ago and they have not had the opportunity to vote on it yet. I don't see how it could be valid. I think I remember seeing somewhere that a decree is only good for 30 days without legislative approval.

(COMMENT)

That 30 day limit has to with Title Seven – State of Emergency Provisions, Article 110. Not the same thing.

It would be a good government if it was without the illegal external interference.

(COMMENT)

I tend to think that neither government is valid. I think that both HAMAS and FATAH have exhausted their terms.

When I say the government is in chaos, that would include not being able to follow their own Basic Laws; including election laws.

There has been one election. That election was 6+ years ago (soon to be seven). The election cycle is not greater than 4 years. Any one can see that something is wrong.

There is no external influence that is preventing the Palestinians from legal performance. You can't blame that on your foreigner-phobia.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

In some respects I agree.

Hamas never had a president. Abbas is Fatah. When a president nominates himself it means to run in the next election, not just grab another term. He is limited to two consecutive terms.

(COMMENT)

The Prime Minister is subordinate to the President.

The leadership has exhausted their terms. Technically,

The amendment to article 36 merely changes the presidents term from the interim period to a specific four year term. That is a valid constitutional amendment.

(COMMENT)

If the Presidential terms expires, doesn't the PM term expire?

The 2007 decree should have been brought before the legislature for approval or it ceases to be law. That was six years ago and they have not had the opportunity to vote on it yet. I don't see how it could be valid. I think I remember seeing somewhere that a decree is only good for 30 days without legislative approval.

(COMMENT)

That 30 day limit has to with Title Seven – State of Emergency Provisions, Article 110. Not the same thing.

It would be a good government if it was without the illegal external interference.

(COMMENT)

I tend to think that neither government is valid. I think that both HAMAS and FATAH have exhausted their terms.

When I say the government is in chaos, that would include not being able to follow their own Basic Laws; including election laws.

There has been one election. That election was 6+ years ago (soon to be seven). The election cycle is not greater than 4 years. Any one can see that something is wrong.

There is no external influence that is preventing the Palestinians from legal performance. You can't blame that on your foreigner-phobia.

Most Respectfully,
R

The illegal government in the West Bank was installed by the US. The US is the division. The US is the chaos. The illegal government will not allow constitutional procedures to move forward.

I don't understand your interpretation of external interference.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Ah, this is were we seriously disagree.

The illegal government in the West Bank was installed by the US. The US is the division. The US is the chaos. The illegal government will not allow constitutional procedures to move forward.

(COMMENT)

The US didn't install the West Bank (Fatah) government. What nonsense is that. While it is true that the US favors the lesser terrorist supporting of the two choices, it did not alter the election process, or alter the PLO-Executive Committee outcomes.

Who is the "illegal government?"

I don't understand your interpretation of external interference.

(COMMENT)

All governments that interact with external governments (during the normal course of diplomatic and commercial relations), are influenced to some degree. Even HAMAS is influenced by the interaction it has with Egypt, Iran and Syria (as examples).

HAMAS has made direct and indirect threats against the US and US interests. HAMAS has establish a past history of hostile actions against US citizens and its interests. It is only natural that the US would support neutralization efforts against HAMAS resources in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist activities and take appropriate practical countermeasures to ensure Jihadist installations or training camps, pose no further threat.

Most Respectfully,
R