The main problem with education

[Whereisup]

It isn't politically correct to say so, but the main problem with education is the parents.

Most parents want their children to "have a childhood" and not have to do too much homework. Most parents don't push their children to learn as much as possible. Most parents want their children to go to college so they can get a good job, but they don't believe that learning knowledge per see is important, and don't teach their children that learning knowledge is important.

So of course, children, egged on by the attitudes of their parents, try to get out of actually learning anything, and the children are successful in resisting school and teachers.

Some people push their children to do well in school, and those children then do well, even when a school isn't very good. New Asian immigrant parents especially push their children to do well in school, and Asian children tend to be at the top in their classes.

Jim

 

[BobPlumb]

it isn't politically correct to say so, but the main problem with education is the parents.

Most parents want their children to "have a childhood" and not have to do too much homework. Most parents don't push their children to learn as much as possible. Most parents want their children to go to college so they can get a good job, but they don't believe that learning knowledge per see is important, and don't teach their children that learning knowledge is important.

So of course, children, egged on by the attitudes of their parents, try to get out of actually learning anything, and the children are successful in resisting school and teachers.

Some people push their children to do well in school, and those children then do well, even when a school isn't very good. New asian immigrant parents especially push their children to do well in school, and asian children tend to be at the top in their classes.

Jim

bingo

 

[JakeStarkey]

We have a winner.

 

[initforme]

Well said blaming teachers and schools isan excuse plain and simple

 

[Jughead]

Although education is important, it is also important for a child to enjoy his childhood. Kids need to be kids. The key is to balance both. While in grade school, parents should help their kids with school work and allow for playtime as well.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Yeah, homework was so useful. Memorize how to spell ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM.

Reading science fiction books was more educational than most homework. But science fiction is dumbed down these days and most SF readers complain if you talk about SCIENCE in the stories. It's all about characterization and world building and Isaac Asimov couldn't "write".

ROFL

Here is some homework:

Omnilingual (Feb 1957) by H. Beam Piper
Scientific Language: H. Beam Piper?s ?Omnilingual? | Tor.com
http://www.feedbooks.com/book/308/omnilingual
http://librivox.org/omnilingual-by-h-beam-piper/

The Fourth R (1959) by George O. Smith
DigiLibraries.com - eBook: "The Fourth "R"" by Smith, George O. (George Oliver)

Ultima Thule (1961) by Mack Reynolds
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Ultima Thule by Dallas McCord Reynolds

Learning can't be fun. That would be immoral. Kids might learn too much without teachers.

psik

 

[Whereisup]

Although education is important, it is also important for a child to enjoy his childhood. Kids need to be kids. The key is to balance both. While in grade school, parents should help their kids with school work and allow for playtime as well.

Learning can be enjoyable, so that should be emphasized.

For example, when parents help children with homework, they might themselves be interested, and also have the child do some things with the ideas which are fun.

Many parents say, "You have to do your homework, and then you can go out and play." Think about the message that gives to the children.

Instead, when appropriate, parents might say things like "Wow. That's a neat idea."

They might also every day ask their children things like, "what things did you learn about in school today which were interesting".

Children start out wanting to learn, and asking their parents a lot of questions about "why". Then somehow, that gets knocked out of them as they get older.

Jim

 

[Esmeralda]

It isn't politically correct to say so, but the main problem with education is the parents.

Most parents want their children to "have a childhood" and not have to do too much homework. Most parents don't push their children to learn as much as possible. Most parents want their children to go to college so they can get a good job, but they don't believe that learning knowledge per see is important, and don't teach their children that learning knowledge is important.

So of course, children, egged on by the attitudes of their parents, try to get out of actually learning anything, and the children are successful in resisting school and teachers.

Some people push their children to do well in school, and those children then do well, even when a school isn't very good. New Asian immigrant parents especially push their children to do well in school, and Asian children tend to be at the top in their classes.

Jim

Absolutely agree. The biggest problem in education is our society: parents and the general public who think education is learning to pass tests, or just passing classes, and gettin grades -- instead of learning, and learning how to learn and learning to value learning, knowledge and critical thinking skills. Both parents and the public/society in America teach kids that teachers are the enemy and that the only reason to get through school is to get a diploma, then get into college and learn an employable skill. We end up with a society of people who are anti-education, who are poorly educated by their own choice, not because the teachers and the schools fail them but because they fail to take responsibility for their own learning.

 

[initforme]

Esmeralda is spot on. The breakdown of the family is the biggest problem. Parents are busy grinding it out... no time to worry about kids learning. Then we have a group out there that believes that test scores ate a main way of judging schools. Warped. Truly warped. Like anything else, education and learning falls on the student taking ownership and if that is not instilled then its all a mute point.

 

[Esmeralda]

Esmeralda is spot on. The breakdown of the family is the biggest problem. Parents are busy grinding it out... no time to worry about kids learning. Then we have a group out there that believes that test scores ate a main way of judging schools. Warped. Truly warped. Like anything else, education and learning falls on the student taking ownership and if that is not instilled then its all a mute point.

It's passive learning, sitting there waiting to be fed an education. What's on the test is the main thing on their mind: what's on the test so I can study for the test. If they do well on the test, they think there are getting a good education. If they don't do well on the test it is the teacher's fault for not preparing them for the test or not writing the test correctly, etc. They don't take 'ownership' of their own learning, and when they don't learn, they blame it on the teachers and the schools. And as the OP said, parents just send their kids off to school like dropping clothes off at the dry cleaners: the parents take no part in their child's education, just expect to pick up the finished product.

 

[rdean]

Republicans explaining how to improve education always makes me "giggle". Which is not as bad as laughing out loud when they explain science.

 

[Esmeralda]

Republicans explaining how to improve education always makes me "giggle". Which is not as bad as laughing out loud when they explain science.

I don't know if the OP is a Republican or not, but I'm not, not by a long shot. And I know the OP is correct. If not the biggest problem, one of the biggest problems, and it is up there and equal to any other big problem with education, is the lack of involvement of parents. Those kids whose parents are involved in their child's education, who pay attention to what their kids are studying, what homework they have, if they are doing their homework, etc., are parents whose children consistently do better than those kids whose parents pay little or no attention. Those parents who consistently attend parent teacher conferences and open houses are parents whose children consistently do better than most other students.

I don't know what your problem is or what you think you know about education, but if you think the OP is wrong, prove it. I think you probably don't have a clue and just want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing with people you think are Republicans.

 

[Unkotare]

Reading science fiction books was more educational than most homework.

Really? Why haven't you ever mentioned that before?


You're a broken fucking record, Spock.

 

[Moonglow]

Esmeralda is spot on. The breakdown of the family is the biggest problem. Parents are busy grinding it out... no time to worry about kids learning. Then we have a group out there that believes that test scores ate a main way of judging schools. Warped. Truly warped. Like anything else, education and learning falls on the student taking ownership and if that is not instilled then its all a mute point.

It's passive learning, sitting there waiting to be fed an education. What's on the test is the main thing on their mind: what's on the test so I can study for the test. If they do well on the test, they think there are getting a good education. If they don't do well on the test it is the teacher's fault for not preparing them for the test or not writing the test correctly, etc. They don't take 'ownership' of their own learning, and when they don't learn, they blame it on the teachers and the schools. And as the OP said, parents just send their kids off to school like dropping clothes off at the dry cleaners: the parents take no part in their child's education, just expect to pick up the finished product.

Not in my house. Education is a 7/24 experience.

 

[Unkotare]

Esmeralda is spot on. The breakdown of the family is the biggest problem. Parents are busy grinding it out... no time to worry about kids learning. Then we have a group out there that believes that test scores ate a main way of judging schools. Warped. Truly warped. Like anything else, education and learning falls on the student taking ownership and if that is not instilled then its all a mute point.

It's passive learning, sitting there waiting to be fed an education. What's on the test is the main thing on their mind: what's on the test so I can study for the test. If they do well on the test, they think there are getting a good education. If they don't do well on the test it is the teacher's fault for not preparing them for the test or not writing the test correctly, etc. They don't take 'ownership' of their own learning, and when they don't learn, they blame it on the teachers and the schools. And as the OP said, parents just send their kids off to school like dropping clothes off at the dry cleaners: the parents take no part in their child's education, just expect to pick up the finished product.

Not in my house. Education is a 7/24 experience.

I can imagine ~

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtW79_5HZXo]Peter griffin naked scooter - YouTube[/ame]

 

[moissessadam]

sorry , but i don't agree with this.

 

[Moonglow]

It's passive learning, sitting there waiting to be fed an education. What's on the test is the main thing on their mind: what's on the test so I can study for the test. If they do well on the test, they think there are getting a good education. If they don't do well on the test it is the teacher's fault for not preparing them for the test or not writing the test correctly, etc. They don't take 'ownership' of their own learning, and when they don't learn, they blame it on the teachers and the schools. And as the OP said, parents just send their kids off to school like dropping clothes off at the dry cleaners: the parents take no part in their child's education, just expect to pick up the finished product.

Not in my house. Education is a 7/24 experience.

I can imagine ~

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtW79_5HZXo]Peter griffin naked scooter - YouTube[/ame]

Every time you post this comes to mind.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LWhNpTJU]The Simpsons - Man Getting Hit By Football - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Samson]

It isn't politically correct to say so, but the main problem with education is the parents.

Most parents want their children to "have a childhood" and not have to do too much homework. Most parents don't push their children to learn as much as possible. Most parents want their children to go to college so they can get a good job, but they don't believe that learning knowledge per see is important, and don't teach their children that learning knowledge is important.

So of course, children, egged on by the attitudes of their parents, try to get out of actually learning anything, and the children are successful in resisting school and teachers.

Some people push their children to do well in school, and those children then do well, even when a school isn't very good. New Asian immigrant parents especially push their children to do well in school, and Asian children tend to be at the top in their classes.

Jim

Well, Jim while I agree with the thesis, it contradicts the essential tenet of public education which is to remove most parents from their children's education.

Public schools do a lot of lip service to the community to make parents believe that the institution welcomes their input; however, anything beyond agreement with the prescribed status quo is generally ignored. Take for example standardized tests. Some posters within this thread have mentioned they do not favor teaching methods that concentrate on test preparation (although this is exactly what successful students must do). These parents are largely ignored, rightly or wrongly.

 

[DGS49]

Another viewpoint, perhaps?

Why is it unreasonable for me to expect that if I send my kid to a school for - I don't know - 35 hours a week(?), for which I personally pay more than $7,000 per year, in perpetuity (my son is 31 years old now), that that school can't deliver all of the "education" that my child requires within those 35 hours?

Why is it that the school system can demand that my child (and I) spend an additional, say, 10-12 hours a week in supplementary activities (independent study and homework), in order to get the education I'm paying for?

At this cost ($7,000 per year until I die), why can't I demand that the school system figure out a way to spend that 35 hours a week productively enough that my child and I don't have to supplement their efforts so generously?

I mean, seriously, I give my employer about 35 hours a week (I'm being kind to myself here), and if they had to take an additional 10-12 hours each week to supplement my work product to make it usable, I'd be on the street in no time. And deservedly so.

You can't tell me that with 35 hours a week it is NOT POSSIBLE to provide a good education with no supplementation. If the kid has to read other assignments, or do problems independently, or practice something outside the classroom, or compose an essay, IT COULD BE DONE within those thirty-five hours. Hell, I'd be willing to give my kid to them for 40 hours. Honest.

With all the "solutions" one hears about in the public dialog, why is no one addressing the elephant in the room: June, July, and August, and the time between quitting time and, say, 5pm? An American work year is 2080 hours less a couple weeks vacation, but a school year is (180 x 6 = ) 1,080 hours. Come on. Get serious. Teachers unions are always telling us that teaching is a "full-time job." Let's give them a chance to prove it.

The basic teaching paradigm is flawed, and needs updating. Professional training (seminars, workshops, etc) are much more time-efficient, and don't require that you prepare in advance or do evening work (usually) to accomplish their training objectives. This is mainly because the instructors are great communicators, the training materials are relevant and helpful, and the seminars (or whatever) are thoroughly planned in advance.

There is no doubt that UNDER THE CURRENT REGIME, the parents are the weak link in the public educational system. They don't motivate the kids, they don't work with the kids, and they don't take a vested interest in the outcomes - blaming any failures on "someone else," mainly the teachers.

But "The Main Problem with Education," is that it is administered according to a hundred-year-old paradigm (hell, even the calendar is based on the kids having to work on the farm in Summer!), and no one in power has had the balls to step back and re-examine the basic delivery system to see if it makes sense with the culture and technological tools we have available in 2014(!). It is as though the car makers were still designing cars with wooden-spoke wheels and complaining that they couldn't achieve more than .35g's in cornering acceleration.

I have seen the enemy and it is us.

 

[DGS49]

Think about this: What if "we" were able to locate the best teachers in the world, and stream their lectures to every student, with the local teacher doing hands-on work to supplement the Super Teachers? We already know that kids will watch TV attentively if the subject matter is satisfying.

What if on-line learning exercises could be generated to replace boring self-study? A few years ago I took a German course on CD, and it was better than any language course I ever tried? It was totally interactive, including assessment and correction of my pronunciation. Couldn't this free up the teacher for more personal assistance in supplementary classes?

The possibilities are endless.