The Lie That Broke Israel's Back

[The Rabbi]

The U.N. "invented" Palestine in 1948. What's this 1967 & 1973 babble about? You're cherry-picking your favorite part of the story and ignoring the origins. At the time Israel didn't exist either, so they were equivalent.

THe UN did not "invent" Palestine in 1948. THere was no Palestine in 1948. You are increasingly irrelevant.

Palestine existed since the end of WW I, thirty years BEFORE the modern state of Israel. Do some research before posting foolishness.

Really? WHere was the capital city? What form of government did it have? Who were its leaders?
You really look like a prize dunce spouting nonsense about non-existence states.
"Palestina" was what the Romans called the area. Nothing more. It was not a political state.

 

[jgarden]

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The Lie That Broke... 12-10-2012 09:18 AM The Rabbi dunce

In both the Old and New Testament, inadvertently pronouncing judgement on oneself is a reoccuring theme (David and Nathan, The Parable of the Wicked Tenants) and it is within this context, that "The Rabbi's" critical comments appear to be more of a reflection of his own inadequecies, than those of his intended targets.

A Biblical scholar, like "The Rabbi," should bemore than familiar with this concept and its Biblical significance.

 

[g5000]

The area under consideration was once a part of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire surrendered Palestine to the British Empire as a result of WWI.

The League of Nations granted the British Empire a mandate over Palestine after WWI. Jews were a minority in Palestine at this time.

The non-Jewish Palestinians regularly revolted against British rule until 1947, when Britian informed the United Nations it wished to surrender its mandate over Palestine.

As a result, the UN created a partitioned Palestine in 1948. There was established a Jewish state, and an Arab state. The Jewish leadership accepted the UN proposal, but the Arab Higher Committee (controlled by the Palestine Arab Party) rejected the proposal, and the war was on.

An alliance of Arab states joined the Palestinians against the Jewish state in this war. But the Israelis kicked ass and not only kept their territory, but took more than half of the Arab state as well. The remainder of the West Bank was taken over by Transjordan, while Egypt took over the Gaza strip.

The Palistinians became refugees.

In 1967, Egypt's President Nasser decided to wipe Israel off the map once and for all. He was joined by Jordan and Syria. In the resultant 6 day war provoked by Nasser, Israel once again whipped ass and took the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Thus the process of building settlements was begun by Israel to solidify its holdings of these territories, and this has been the source of contention ever since.


The current resolution establishing the state of Palestine is restoring the original 1948 resolution which established the Arab and Jewish states.

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[The Rabbi]

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The Lie That Broke... 12-10-2012 09:18 AM The Rabbi dunce

In both the Old and New Testament, inadvertently pronouncing judgement on oneself is a reoccuring theme (David and Nathan, The Parable of the Wicked Tenants) and it is within this context, that "The Rabbi's" critical comments appear to be more of a reflection of his own inadequecies, than those of his intended targets.

A Biblical scholar, like "The Rabbi," should bemore than familiar with this concept and its Biblical significance.

A dunce like yourself should at least be man enough to admit he was wrong. There was no state of Palestine that Israel went to war with. Israel went to war with Egypt, Syria, and Jordan and conquered territory from all of them. Thus there is no "returning" the land to Palestinians, as they never owned it to begin with.
When confronted with facts the anti-Israel/anti-Semite crowd either gets very quiet or changes the subject.

 

[georgephillip]

Or they mention instances of international law that prohibit the acquisition of territory by force:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

The "chosen people" have filled the Occupied Territories with hundreds of thousands of Jews from all around the planet who never owned a dunam of Palestine before their illegal occupation.

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Rabbi]

Or they mention instances of international law that prohibit the acquisition of territory by force:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

The "chosen people" have filled the Occupied Territories with hundreds of thousands of Jews from all around the planet who never owned a dunam of Palestine before their illegal occupation.

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arabs deported most of their Jewish population after the state was created. Yet you are strangely silent on this.

 

[konradv]

... THe UN did not "invent" Palestine in 1948. THere was no Palestine in 1948. You are increasingly irrelevant.

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15 May 1947 - the UN General Assembly created the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) to "prepare for consideration at the next regular session of the Assembly a report on the question of Palestine."

3 September 1947 - UNSCOP presented the Report of the Committee introducing a plan to replace the British Mandate of Palestine "an independent Arab State, an independent Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem..., the last to be under an International Trusteeship System."

29 November 1947 - the UN General Assembly voted on and approved the implementation of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181.
- the Jewish Agency representing the Jewish minority in Palestine accepted the plan, but the Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine don't

1 December 1947 - the Arab Higher Committee call for a 3 day strike and civil war ensued
- initially on the defensive, Palestinian Jews gradually moved onto the offensive
- Palestinian Arab economy collapsed and 250,000 Palestinian-Arabs fled/expelled.[76]

14 May 1948 - day before the expiration of the British Mandate
- David Ben-Gurion, leader of the Jewish Agency declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel"
- there was no specific mention as to what constituted the borders of "Eretz-Israel"

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By accepting the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181 on 29 November 1947, both the United Nations and the former Jewish Agency, the predecessor of the government of Israel, have recognized the existence of an Arab state in Palestine.

While the territorial boundaries of such an Arab state may be open to question, how can the UN recognize the existance if Israel and not an Arab Palestine, given both were created by the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181?

By arguing that "Palestine did not exist," "The Rabbi" selectively chooses to accept those parts of Resolution 181 as they relate to the creation of a Jewish state, while ignoring/rejecting other parts that relate to the creation of an Arab state in Palestine.

"The Rabbi's" mindset on this topic is reminiscent of those who would deny the existence of the Holocaust.

Whicj Arab state was created by the UN in 1948? Who were its leaders? What was its form of government?
You cannot answer these questions because there is no answer. There was no "Palestine" as a state. Palestine did not declare war on Israel. Jordan, Egypt and Syria did. Those were the only states in existence. Thus Israel conquered land from those states, not from some mythical "Palestine".

If Palestine is mythical, then so is Israel. The U.N. created them at the same time. If you can't accept that, then Israel merely exists on a "might makes right" basis and has no claim to a moral reason to exist. Is that what you want, Rabbi?

 

[The Rabbi]

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By accepting the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181 on 29 November 1947, both the United Nations and the former Jewish Agency, the predecessor of the government of Israel, have recognized the existence of an Arab state in Palestine.

While the territorial boundaries of such an Arab state may be open to question, how can the UN recognize the existance if Israel and not an Arab Palestine, given both were created by the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181?

By arguing that "Palestine did not exist," "The Rabbi" selectively chooses to accept those parts of Resolution 181 as they relate to the creation of a Jewish state, while ignoring/rejecting other parts that relate to the creation of an Arab state in Palestine.

"The Rabbi's" mindset on this topic is reminiscent of those who would deny the existence of the Holocaust.

Whicj Arab state was created by the UN in 1948? Who were its leaders? What was its form of government?
You cannot answer these questions because there is no answer. There was no "Palestine" as a state. Palestine did not declare war on Israel. Jordan, Egypt and Syria did. Those were the only states in existence. Thus Israel conquered land from those states, not from some mythical "Palestine".

If Palestine is mythical, then so is Israel. The U.N. created them at the same time. If you can't accept that, then Israel merely exists on a "might makes right" basis and has no claim to a moral reason to exist. Is that what you want, Rabbi?

You might have credibility if you could answer the questions: Which Arab state was created in 1948? What was its capital? Who were its leaders? What form of government did it have?
Come on. I know you can do it. Not.

 

[georgephillip]

Or they mention instances of international law that prohibit the acquisition of territory by force:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

The "chosen people" have filled the Occupied Territories with hundreds of thousands of Jews from all around the planet who never owned a dunam of Palestine before their illegal occupation.

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arabs deported most of their Jewish population after the state was created. Yet you are strangely silent on this.

700,000 Arabs fled Israel during its War of Independence, and about 800,000 Jews were expelled from surrounding Arab states at the same time; another 700,000 Jews migrated to Israel and took up residence in Arab homes and businesses. This seems inconsistent with Lord Balfour's alleged intent:

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Antares]

You are an uneducated dolt.

Nasser massed troops, Syria fomented terrorism, and thats what ISRAEL was reacting to in 1967.

There is NOTHING an anti semitic piece of shit like you can do to change those facts.

You are dismissed punk.

LOL...another uneducated idiot.

What was Syria's role in this?

What Nasser doing in the Sinai?

Dumbfuck.

In 1948, one-third of the population of Mandate Palestine inflicted a Jewish State by force of arms upon two-thirds of all Palestinians. In 1967 the Jews launched another war that lasted six days, tripled the amount of land controlled by Israel and subjected another one million Arabs to Jewish occupation

"Arab armies had been vanquished in six days, the territories lost to Israel."

Those territories were and are subject to international law like this from the Fourth Geneva Convention:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Over the past forty years Israel has filled the Occupied Territories with hundreds of thousands of Jews from all around the planet in violation of international law.

The Big Lie comes when Israel annexs all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, and five million Jews rule six million Arabs in a "democratic" state.

It wasn't Syria or Nasser's role in the Sinai that set al-Nakba in motion, Moron; it was 650,000 Jews inflicting a Jewish State on the majority of Palestinians in 1948.

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Wrong again, Jew-stool!
In 1967 Egypt and Syria were responding to kosher threats that began in 1948 when 650, 000 Jews inflicted a Jewish State on 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine. Israel attacked first in '67 four days before the heroic Jews killed 34 Americans on board the USS Liberty. Or maybe you think Syria and Nasser planned that too?

Maybe you should dismiss your ignorance before making a complete bitch of yourself?
Too late.

 

[jgarden]

"The fact that Palestinian nationalism developed later than Zionism and indeed in response to it does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of Palestinian nationalism or make it less valid than Zionism. All nationalisms arise in opposition to some "other." Why else would there be the need to specify who you are? And all nationalisms are defined by what they oppose."
- James L. Gelvin, "The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

The right of the Palestinian people to self-determination has been recognized and affirmed by the United Nations General Assembly, the International Court of Justice and even several Israeli authorities.

Both Israeli Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon (December 2001) anf Ehud Olmert proclaimed that it was the goal of their respective administrations to recognize the Palestinian state as the only realistic solution to the Jewish/Arab conflict.

The state of Palestine is recognized by 131 (67.9%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations, as of November 2012. These states represent a total population of over 5.5 billion people, 80% of the world's population.

Even many of those nations that still do not actually recognise the State of Palestine, do recognise the PLO as the "representative of the Palestinian people." Palestine does have full membership status in the Arab League and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), but not in the UN General Assembly, the very institution that created it and Israel in 1947, under Resolution 181

Unfortunately, America has not been adverse to using "intimidation tactics" to promote Israel and suppress Palestine's attempts to receive formal international recognition.

- 22 November 1974, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236 recognised the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty in Palestine. Palestine was accorded it "observer" status but that provided no formal recognition within the in the United Nations.

- 1988 - the US used its Foreign Assistance Act to "discorage" developing states in Africa and Asia and international organisations from extending recognition to Palesine

- 1989 - the Arab League proposed a resolution in the General Assembly recognizing the PLO as the government of an independent Palestinian state. Knowing that sufficient support to adopt the resolution existed, the US threatened to withhold all financial support for the United Nations , forcing the Arab League to withdraw its resolution

- 29 November 2012 - the UN General Assembly passed a motion upgrading Palestine's status from an "entity" to "non-member state" by a vote of 138 to 9, with 41 abstentions. Palestine could have easily received full UN member state status, but the members understood that upgrading to "non-member state" was als far as the US would allow without exercising its veto. America does not want Palestine to achieve full member state in the UN General Assembly, a position that would allow it to take Israel in the embarrassing position of being taken to the World Court

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

 

[The Rabbi]

You're a dunce of epic proportions.
The Palis have violated every agreement they've ever signed. With this latest crap at the UN they violated their signature on the Oslo Accords. Why would anyone think they will honor any agreement they make?
And you still have not answered the questions as to what Arab state was created in 1948. There is none. "Palestine" doesnt exist as a political entity.

 

[georgephillip]

What does the world's smartest Jew have to say on the subject?

"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement.

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas).

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.

"Israel refused to attend the session.

"The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980.

"The record at the General Assembly since is similar."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"

For sixty years Jews have been annexing all of historical Israel, i.e., all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River. Today there are six million Arabs and five million Jews living on that land.

How do five million Jews rule six million Arabs in a democratic state?

 

[AmericanFirst]

Given that Israel was an invention of the United Nations,

don't you see the irony here??

Given that idiot satan worshipping fools believe that is too funny. Palestinians are loser murdering thugs who never had a legitimate claim to any territory.

 

[konradv]

Given that Israel was an invention of the United Nations,

don't you see the irony here??

Given that idiot satan worshipping fools believe that is too funny. Palestinians are loser murdering thugs who never had a legitimate claim to any territory.

What constitutes a legitimate claim? Between the World Wars and after there was a territory called Palestine, presumably populated by Palestinians. On the other hand, there was no territory called Israel. What makes their claim better than those of the people living there since antiquity?

 

[The Rabbi]

Given that Israel was an invention of the United Nations,

don't you see the irony here??

Given that idiot satan worshipping fools believe that is too funny. Palestinians are loser murdering thugs who never had a legitimate claim to any territory.

What constitutes a legitimate claim? Between the World Wars and after there was a territory called Palestine, presumably populated by Palestinians. On the other hand, there was no territory called Israel. What makes their claim better than those of the people living there since antiquity?

What Arab state was created in 1948 by the UN? What was its capital? What form of gov't did it have?

You seem to have wimped out here, not surprisingly.
Between WW1 and 2 Palestine was populated by Arabs and Jews. Jews had a country there for hundreds of years. Now they have one again. Arabs also have a country, known as Jordan. Let the "Palestinians" move to Jordan.

 

[konradv]

Given that idiot satan worshipping fools believe that is too funny. Palestinians are loser murdering thugs who never had a legitimate claim to any territory.

What constitutes a legitimate claim? Between the World Wars and after there was a territory called Palestine, presumably populated by Palestinians. On the other hand, there was no territory called Israel. What makes their claim better than those of the people living there since antiquity?

What Arab state was created in 1948 by the UN? What was its capital? What form of gov't did it have?

You seem to have wimped out here, not surprisingly.
Between WW1 and 2 Palestine was populated by Arabs and Jews. Jews had a country there for hundreds of years. Now they have one again. Arabs also have a country, known as Jordan. Let the "Palestinians" move to Jordan.

Palestine was created before 1948, therefore it pre-dates Israel. Israel was carved out of a portion of Palestine by the U.N. The real question is why Israel considers itself entitled to the whole thing when you admit that the country was populated by Arabs and Jews?

 

[BlindBoo]

That's correct. Many countries are inventions. Many are not. "Palestine" is not. There was never a country called "Palestine." There is still not a country called "Palestine." There was a country called "Israel" and there is one today.
Which part of that do you not get?

The part where you say countries are invented, but somehow the country of Palestine can't be invented. Israel and Palestine were both invented by the U.N. in 1948. That's FACT. The U.N. just reaffirmed that creation. I guess the part I don't get is, why you think the fact that there's never been a country called Palestine before is relevant. Until the 20th century there never were countries called Belarus, Slovenia or Slovakia, either. So what? You're just using double talk. One minute a country can be invented and the next it can't.

You seem to want to make the argument that since Israel was declared a state by the UN then "Palestine" can be declared a state too. I don't argue with that assertion. The UN can declare your living room a state as well. That doesn't really mean much though.
But the Big Lie is not that Palestine cannot be invented. It is that there was ever a Palestine to begin with. There was not. Israel did not capture the territory from "Palestine." It captured it from Egypt, Syria and Jordan. So the UN is not reconstituting Palestine. It is inventing something that never existed previously.

The UN did no such thing. Israel declared itself a state. Other States then recognized the new state. The Patrition Plan was voted on by the GA in 1947 but before the UNSC could take up the matter, the war on the ground between the original occupants and the future Israelites was heating up.

 

[The Rabbi]

What constitutes a legitimate claim? Between the World Wars and after there was a territory called Palestine, presumably populated by Palestinians. On the other hand, there was no territory called Israel. What makes their claim better than those of the people living there since antiquity?

What Arab state was created in 1948 by the UN? What was its capital? What form of gov't did it have?

You seem to have wimped out here, not surprisingly.
Between WW1 and 2 Palestine was populated by Arabs and Jews. Jews had a country there for hundreds of years. Now they have one again. Arabs also have a country, known as Jordan. Let the "Palestinians" move to Jordan.

Palestine was created before 1948, therefore it pre-dates Israel. Israel was carved out of a portion of Palestine by the U.N. The real question is why Israel considers itself entitled to the whole thing when you admit that the country was populated by Arabs and Jews?

You're not answering the questions. Palestine was created by the Romans as a province. The state of Israel preceded that. Israel does not consider itself entitled to the whole thing since the whole thing also includes Jordan, which was part of the Mandate. But in modern times there was no state called Palestine, a point you've failed to acknowledge over and over.