Dr Grump
Platinum Member
The NT does not supersede the OT. Christ fulfilled Scripture. He also corrected many then-contemporary misinterpretations of Gods law.
And do you think Jews agree or disagree with this?
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The NT does not supersede the OT. Christ fulfilled Scripture. He also corrected many then-contemporary misinterpretations of Gods law.
The Jewish Torah (Gods law) is the first 5 books of the Christian Bible, and has been duplicated and translated faithfully throughout the centuries by Jews and Christians. This has been proven scientifically many times, most notable by the Dead Sea Scrolls matching modern texts word for word, carbon dated 200-400 BC. The first book of the Torah is Genesis, which includes details of the life of Abraham, who lived about 2000BC.
Mohamed wrote the Koran around 600AD, starting with the story of Abraham. Obviously, he was not able to travel back in time and change events, so any divergence from the Torah would be incorrect, if not heretical. According to Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael, not Isaac, that Abraham offered to God on Mount Moriah. In the Quran it does not actually specify which son, but the verses, which follow that passage, speak about Isaac. [source: mandinkapeople.com]
Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.
Mohamed, on the other hand, reinterpreted the Torah against Christ's teachings.
Is this proof that Islam is a false religion?
If that is the case (proving Judism right)
1) Why are there still Jews in the world? Why do they need to exist if the prophecies in their book have come to pass?
2) You saying this: "Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect." If Jesus said the Jewish people had interpreted things in the Torah incorrectly, and he had done so correctly, yet Jewish people obviously disagree with him, how has Judism been proven right when Jews themselves disagree with that premise?
Muhammed didn't actually write the Koran. Rather many people memorized verses he said and it wasn't untill many years after his death (decades even?) that the verses were put to paper and organized into chapters.
The funny thing about Islam is they say they regard Jesus as a great Prophet of God yet claim that his disciples lied after his death about his Resurrection and Ascention to Heaven. I guess a "greatest Prophet of God" was unable to forsee his own handpicked disciples would end up writing "lies" about him (The New Testament). By the way if you ever confront a Muslim about this contractition they will never answer for it.
You don't seem to have an undestanding at all about Christianity. Christ fullfilled Scipture in the Torah, proving that Judaism was right.
Strictly speaking, no. You would first have to prove that the Torah and/or Bible are indicitive of true religion, which I believe was your unstated assumption. But, if one believes (or shows) that the Torah is true, and that the Koran contradicts the Torah, then one could cponclude that the Koran is false, and therefore any religion based upon the Koran would have to be false.
But Christianity does not claim that Judaism is wrong. Christianity claims to be an extension of Judaism. Christianity actually depends on Judaism being correct about everything except the nature of Jesus. Judaism predicts the coming of a Messiah. Christianity believes that Jesus was that same Messiah that Judaism believes in.
That's an interesting point. But Judaism doesn't believe that Jesus was the same Messiah as that prophesized.
Also, I understand what you're saying about Judaism being correct.... at least up until the rise of Christianity. But doesn't that, by implication, mean that anyone still observing Judaism IS now wrong?
I would say, unpersuaded. What that means down the road? It's God's decision, assuming, which I do, that Christianity is correct about the Christ.
Well... I agree that down the road, the ultimate judgment is going to be made. The thing that I don't understand, though, and perhaps you can explain it to me, is if the messiah's been here.... why is the world still so futterly ucked in so many ways and why haven't we had the 1,000 year peace?
Jesus wasn't sent here for 'peace of our understanding' rather of God's. At least that's what I understand.
I'm not sure I'm following .... can you try explaining that again?
God's peace is spiritual, ours is of the here and now. Best I can do.
Ah..... fair enough. Thanks.
You know, I think we spend far too much time worrying about whose religion is "true". I think the purpose of religion is to give people peace of mind and answer whatever spiritual questions they have..... if each of our own beliefs do that, then whatever happens in the hereafter is pretty much the worry of the individual.
To the best of my knowledge (admittedly limited on the subject) Islam views both Moses and Jesus as prophets and calls both Christians and Jews "people of the book". That, of course, doesn't mean that it has to follow the religions which gave rise to those prophets.
That would be fine, except Islam was created by Mohamed for his personal power trip, and as an excuse to kill the Jews that he hated, as well as anyone else who refused to believe his false prophecy.
That would be fine, except Islam was created by Mohamed for his personal power trip, and as an excuse to kill the Jews that he hated, as well as anyone else who refused to believe his false prophecy.