The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[CrusaderFrank]

You don't believe in gravity, Frank? Mitosis?

Gravity is there weather I believe it or not.

But surely you were aware that the space program is presenting challenges to our understanding of this most bedrock law of physics? Have you heard of the "Pioneer anomaly" or "Dark Matter"? Gravity refuses to acquiesce to our understanding once outside of Earth's orbit

The Pioneer Anomaly isn't a problem with our understanding of physics. While there are a host of explanations (involving both human error and a misunderstanding of some esoteric portions of physics), only one involves a wholesale challenge to physics as we know it today - and that challenge is supported by about as many physicists as the Loch Ness monster....all due respect to Loch.

Dark Matter isn't a problem with our understanding of physics - it's an explanation of why the observed expansion of the universe does not fit with the observed amount of matter in the universe.

Yes, because as I mentioned before our understanding of gravity (Oh, we still haven't found the graviton, the particle tha propagates gravity) fails to account for Pioneer and for the motions of both stars around their galactic center where there is not enough matter for gravity alone to account for the galaxies holding together and then to account for why it is that galaxies are flying away at an INCREASING rate.

But don't worry, FDR is great, almost 20% average unemployment notwithstanding until Hilter invaded Poland, because you and other people say so.

New Deal = Epic Fail

And stop giving FDR credit for the Fed taking their hand off the throat of US banks in 1933.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Regarded" by die hard liberals and other unthinking folks who aren't bright enough to actually "think" all on their own.

FDR had some good points. But in many regards, despite the propaganda of the liberal academics and the liberal media, he was actually a clear flop.

He oversaw an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years and only had Hitlers invasion of Poland to thank for the drop in unemployment as healthy young men joined the US military.

He is regarded as "Great" by Progressives, US Communists, dupes and unthinking sock puppets.

He inherited an economy that had contracted by almost 50%. Within his first year it began expanding at a pace not seen before or since in US economic history.

The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that

 

[8537]

He oversaw an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years and only had Hitlers invasion of Poland to thank for the drop in unemployment as healthy young men joined the US military.

He is regarded as "Great" by Progressives, US Communists, dupes and unthinking sock puppets.

He inherited an economy that had contracted by almost 50%. Within his first year it began expanding at a pace not seen before or since in US economic history.

The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that

The Fed did not stabilize the banking system
The Fed did not end our money's attachment to some random mineral buried in the ground.

FDR did those.

Oh, FDR also appointed the Fed leadership.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

I agree...particularly when the Republicans were the Party of Isolation and Appeasement before Pearl Harbor.

Some people today can't stand that one of the Greatest (and longest serving presidents) was a Democrat.

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

He inherited an economy that had contracted by almost 50%. Within his first year it began expanding at a pace not seen before or since in US economic history.

The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that

The Fed did not stabilize the banking system
The Fed did not end our money's attachment to some random mineral buried in the ground.

FDR did those.

Oh, FDR also appointed the Fed leadership.

The Fed chocked the American economy nearly to death under Hoover and they stopped in 1933.

 

[8537]

The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that
The Fed did that

The Fed did not stabilize the banking system
The Fed did not end our money's attachment to some random mineral buried in the ground.

FDR did those.

Oh, FDR also appointed the Fed leadership.

The Fed chocked the American economy nearly to death under Hoover and they stopped in 1933.

and do you happen to know what changed at the Fed to cause this reversal of methodology, and who might have been in charge of the appointment?

...and how they managed to loosen the monetary belt? I seem to recall that involved abandoning our love affair with shiny nuggets. Who made that decision, Frank?

...and who signed the legislation that ended the run of 4,000 bank failures?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Fed did not stabilize the banking system
The Fed did not end our money's attachment to some random mineral buried in the ground.

FDR did those.

Oh, FDR also appointed the Fed leadership.

The Fed chocked the American economy nearly to death under Hoover and they stopped in 1933.

and do you happen to know what changed at the Fed to cause this reversal of methodology, and who might have been in charge of the appointment?

...and how they managed to loosen the monetary belt? I seem to recall that involved abandoning our love affair with shiny nuggets. Who made that decision, Frank?

...and who signed the legislation that ended the run of 4,000 bank failures?

So you're finally admitting that the Fed cause the contraction until 1933?

 

[8537]

The Fed chocked the American economy nearly to death under Hoover and they stopped in 1933.

and do you happen to know what changed at the Fed to cause this reversal of methodology, and who might have been in charge of the appointment?

...and how they managed to loosen the monetary belt? I seem to recall that involved abandoning our love affair with shiny nuggets. Who made that decision, Frank?

...and who signed the legislation that ended the run of 4,000 bank failures?

So you're finally admitting that the Fed cause the contraction until 1933?

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

 

[Old Rocks]

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

I agree...particularly when the Republicans were the Party of Isolation and Appeasement before Pearl Harbor.

Some people today can't stand that one of the Greatest (and longest serving presidents) was a Democrat.

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

That is about the most absurb rewrite of histoy that I have ever seen.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

and do you happen to know what changed at the Fed to cause this reversal of methodology, and who might have been in charge of the appointment?

...and how they managed to loosen the monetary belt? I seem to recall that involved abandoning our love affair with shiny nuggets. Who made that decision, Frank?

...and who signed the legislation that ended the run of 4,000 bank failures?

So you're finally admitting that the Fed cause the contraction until 1933?

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I agree...particularly when the Republicans were the Party of Isolation and Appeasement before Pearl Harbor.

Some people today can't stand that one of the Greatest (and longest serving presidents) was a Democrat.

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

That is about the most absurb rewrite of histoy that I have ever seen.

Only because you choose to remain ignorant of new developments.

And as far as military strategy, the Japanese attack on Pearl ONLY makes sense in the context of them doing what was best for the USSR because there was nothing good that came from it from the Japanese perspective.

 

[Gadawg73]

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

I agree...particularly when the Republicans were the Party of Isolation and Appeasement before Pearl Harbor.

Some people today can't stand that one of the Greatest (and longest serving presidents) was a Democrat.

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

You are claiming FDR knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl Harbor?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I agree...particularly when the Republicans were the Party of Isolation and Appeasement before Pearl Harbor.

Some people today can't stand that one of the Greatest (and longest serving presidents) was a Democrat.

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

You are claiming FDR knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl Harbor?

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

 

[8537]

So you're finally admitting that the Fed cause the contraction until 1933?

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

You can't both support monetary expansion AND say we should have a gold standard. In order for the fed to have monetary flexibility, the government had to revoke the gold standard.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

You can't both support monetary expansion AND say we should have a gold standard. In order for the fed to have monetary flexibility, the government had to revoke the gold standard.

I say we shouldn't even have a Federal Reserve in the first place.

If we weren't a nation of fucking morons the Fed would have been leveled decades ago. They announced they doled out TRILLION even to foreign banks and more people think the Jets-Pats game was somehow more important.

The Fed gave our money to foreign banks.

 

[Toro]

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

You can't both support monetary expansion AND say we should have a gold standard. In order for the fed to have monetary flexibility, the government had to revoke the gold standard.

Revaluing the dollar against gold was smart and contributed to the end of the Depression

BUT

Confiscating gold is not the trademark of a free society, and justifies people's distrust of government.

 

[The T]

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

You can't both support monetary expansion AND say we should have a gold standard. In order for the fed to have monetary flexibility, the government had to revoke the gold standard.

I say we shouldn't even have a Federal Reserve in the first place.

If we weren't a nation of fucking morons the Fed would have been leveled decades ago. They announced they doled out TRILLION even to foreign banks and more people think the Jets-Pats game was somehow more important.

The Fed gave our money to foreign banks.

Not to mention the FED manipulating the Stock Market...

WOW looks at those stocks rise under Obama (!) we are told...

Federal Reserve Manipulating Stocks, Says Respected Expert

 

[Gadawg73]

LOL

Russian spies advised FDR to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

The Japanese already kicked the shit out of the Soviets near the turn of the century and the spymasters did want want to fight the Japanese to the East and Hitler to the West so they had their spies convince FDR to maintain a hostile policy to the Japanese.

No one in the Japanese military understood why they were being ordered to attack at Pearly Harbor, it made no sense at all.

And now we learned that the Russian also had spies advising the Emperor and where whispering in his ear to attack the USA rather than the Russians.

FDR was played like a fiddle by the Russians. He got into a war in the Pacific we should never have had to fight and he gave Eastern Europe over to USSR at the end of the war.

You are claiming FDR knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl Harbor?

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

No it has not been "painfully obvious for 70 years".
You claim the United States Military allowed all those men to die?
The facts:
Frank, the JN-25 codes were not cracked until January,1942. You have no evidence to show any codes were cracked other than that so where does that leave you?
Pearl Harbor was in 1941. The code cracking helped us in Midway Frank, not Pearl Harbor.
Guess what happened at Midway?
"which never made a lick of sense".
Well duh Frank. Your entire thesis makes no sense. There are zero facts to support it.
Please do not dishonor WWII veterans again Frank.

 

[8537]

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

You can't both support monetary expansion AND say we should have a gold standard. In order for the fed to have monetary flexibility, the government had to revoke the gold standard.

Revaluing the dollar against gold was smart and contributed to the end of the Depression

BUT

Confiscating gold is not the trademark of a free society, and justifies people's distrust of government.

If you read other posts I've written relative to FDR and GD, I have said many times that the New Deal was a mix of effective programs, ineffective programs and plain stupid programs. Luckily for FDR, the effective programs (the 2 banking acts and the end of the gold standard in particular) outweighed the impacts of the ineffective and sometimes stupid programs.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You are claiming FDR knew the Japs were going to attack Pearl Harbor?

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

No it has not been "painfully obvious for 70 years".
You claim the United States Military allowed all those men to die?
The facts:
Frank, the JN-25 codes were not cracked until January,1942. You have no evidence to show any codes were cracked other than that so where does that leave you?
Pearl Harbor was in 1941. The code cracking helped us in Midway Frank, not Pearl Harbor.
Guess what happened at Midway?
"which never made a lick of sense".
Well duh Frank. Your entire thesis makes no sense. There are zero facts to support it.
Please do not dishonor WWII veterans again Frank.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the facts. We goaded the Japanese into attacking, we knew the attack was on the way and FDR cheerfully let the attack occur to get the USA into WWII and finally decrease US unemployment.

FDR, not the US military allowed those men to die, just like Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed without sending out warning.

FDR Knew Pearl Harbor Was Coming