The Illusion of Moral Decline

[MinTrut]

Politics is wrapped in the narrative that we are suffering through a moral decline. Turns out, that is NOT true, so quit fretting.

Nature.com published a study a few weeks back that not only disputed the narrative of a moral decline but also offered up the factors that push people to believe it:

Biased Exposure: People are predominantly exposed to the bad stories of others (if it bleeds it leads)

Biased Memory: Bad things fade faster than good things leaving a more favorable view of the past.

Those two biases fool people into thinking everyone else is suffering and that they used to live in an easier time and there it is… things must be worse. Guess what? All evidence to the contrary and it is seen in many contemporary countries.

The illusion of moral decline - Nature

We show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced, and suggest that this illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources, the underuse of social support and social influence.

www.nature.com

Anecdotal evidence indicates that people believe that morality is declining1,2. In a series of studies using both archival and original data (n = 12,492,983), we show that people in at least 60 nations around the world believe that morality is declining, that they have believed this for at least 70 years and that they attribute this decline both to the decreasing morality of individuals as they age and to the decreasing morality of successive generations. Next, we show that people’s reports of the morality of their contemporaries have not declined over time, suggesting that the perception of moral decline is an illusion. Finally, we show how a simple mechanism based on two well-established psychological phenomena (biased exposure to information and biased memory for information) can produce an illusion of moral decline, and we report studies that confirm two of its predictions about the circumstances under which the perception of moral decline is attenuated, eliminated or reversed (that is, when respondents are asked about the morality of people they know well or people who lived before the respondent was born). Together, our studies show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced. This illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources3, the underuse of social support4 and social influence5.

Too many words.

Bottom line:

Shitcons are triggered 24/7/365.

 

[citygator]

Uh, lets hear what they define as moral decline.


Peoples reports of moral decline ???? Are we going to get that information ?

And waht anecdotal evidence is there about what people believe.

What a lard ass crock of garbage.

The report is on attitudes on moral decline. People always react like this thread. They say my morals are fine and so are my friends but I see stuff that makes me feel like there is moral decline. The fact is they only see recent bad news and have forgotten the older bad news.

Read the link.

 

[citygator]

View attachment 876510
Violence is 10% of divorces. Infidelity is 27%, and that alone shows the decline of morals.
But the biggest segment is just "I don't want to be married to this person I promised to be with". Incompatibility (I'm selfish), Grown Apart (I'm selfish), Other which is usually "I'm selfish".
That's more than half of divorces. I would even say money is just "I'm selfish". Because remember the wedding vow? "For richer or poorer"? Morals. People have lost their morals.

The rate of violence is down. The consequences are up. That is moral progress. Violence and infidelity happened all the time but women couldn’t divorce though. Other includes alcoholism which has always been a problem.

 

[citygator]

If you support murdering babies, and go to church, you are still immoral and evil. Going to church, doesn't make you moral.
Remember, Jesus was murdered by the "Religious devout' people of his day.
You can't support the things Democrats support, and be moral. Going to church, or something else, doesn't change the fact you are immoral.

Abortion isn’t murder dipshit so don’t derail the thread.

 

[citygator]

Yeah, then Jesus said fuck all that, and society thrived afterward.
Then came Mohammed. and then Marxist Leninist Stalinist communism.
Woot!!!

When exactly was society thriving before now?

 

[SweetSue92]

When exactly was society thriving before now?

Ask any teacher, anywhere, how our society is doing morally.

 

[SeaMajor7]

When exactly was society thriving before now?

"They don't think it be like it is, but it do."
OG

 

[Lesh]

The report is on attitudes on moral decline. People always react like this thread. They say my morals are fine and so are my friends but I see stuff that makes me feel like there is moral decline. The fact is they only see recent bad news and have forgotten the older bad news.

Read the link.

Not unlike attitudes about the economy.

“I’m doing ok and my friends are as well but I hear other people are having a hard time”

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The study was on the 'perception' of morality and it was thorough. So I wouldnt call it worthless since it demonstrated scientifically what we all have noticed: every generation thinks the one before it is worse even though the metrics suggest things are getting better.

Yes. Metrics that the "study" created.
You can't scientifically study something that is subjective. That is the exact opposite of what the principles of science is.
You could, however, do a study on ethics.
But of course the author had no interest in that, because the outcome would be significantly different.

Of course every generation thinks the next one is worse, they always have, and probably always will.
But ethics can be measured. There are crime statistics, family science statistics etc. Measurable.
And that study would be quite different

 

[citygator]

Yes. Metrics that the "study" created.
You can't scientifically study something that is subjective. That is the exact opposite of what the principles of science is.
You could, however, do a study on ethics.
But of course the author had no interest in that, because the outcome would be significantly different.

Of course every generation thinks the next one is worse, they always have, and probably always will.
But ethics can be measured. There are crime statistics, family science statistics etc. Measurable.
And that study would be quite different

Well that is kind of the point. All the statistics point to a safer and more kind world. All the crime statistics are down. People care intrinsically about the environment more and are more tolerant of people who dont look and act like them. Poverty definitions continue to be raised. There is very little evidence of moral decline, yet people always feel that it’s happening, just not to themselves. The study explains why. People fondly remember their youth and only notice the current bad stuff. It’s a well known bias.

 

[citygator]

Ask any teacher, anywhere, how our society is doing morally.

Ok. My mom, high school math teacher, says generally students are nicer to each other and fight less in the halls but that they are way more stressed about grades and what others think about them.

 

[Chillicothe]

"Hey shitlord, what exactly is leftist shitlord fucktards like you's standard for any kind of morality at all, hmm?"

But, in the Dukedom of poster Duke...... angry vulgar epithets hurled on internet social media platforms created for responsible discourse between adults are, well, pretty darn cool.

Calling any stranger a "shitloardfucktard" is the moral thing to do.
Angry vulgar epithets are basically polite moral adult discourse.
......in Duke's sad world.

"Fake news on the rapist accusation, because it was never proven."

Sounds like it was 'proven' to someone.
For one, E. Jean Carroll.
But more germane to poster 'beagle's talking point ----- the judge in the trial thought it was rape. And said so.



To wit:

"After Donald Trump was found liable for sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, his legal team and his defenders lodged a frequent talking point.
Despite Carroll’s claims that Trump had raped her, they noted, the jury stopped short of saying he committed that particular offense. Instead, jurors opted for a second option: sexual abuse.

“This was a rape claim, this was a rape case all along, and the jury rejected that — made other findings,” his lawyer, Joe Tacopina, said outside the courthouse.
A judge has now clarified that this is basically a legal distinction without a real-world difference. He says that what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood.

The filing from Judge Lewis A. Kaplan came as Trump’s attorneys have sought a new trial and have argued that the jury’s $5 million verdict against Trump in the civil suit was excessive. The reason, they argue, is that sexual abuse could be as limited as the “groping” of a victim’s breasts.

Kaplan roundly rejected Trump’s motion Tuesday, calling that argument “entirely unpersuasive.”
“The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape,’ ” Kaplan wrote.
He added: “Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”

-------------------------------------------------------

 

[justoffal]

Politics is wrapped in the narrative that we are suffering through a moral decline. Turns out, that is NOT true, so quit fretting.

Nature.com published a study a few weeks back that not only disputed the narrative of a moral decline but also offered up the factors that push people to believe it:

Biased Exposure: People are predominantly exposed to the bad stories of others (if it bleeds it leads)

Biased Memory: Bad things fade faster than good things leaving a more favorable view of the past.

Those two biases fool people into thinking everyone else is suffering and that they used to live in an easier time and there it is… things must be worse. Guess what? All evidence to the contrary and it is seen in many contemporary countries.

The illusion of moral decline - Nature

We show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced, and suggest that this illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources, the underuse of social support and social influence.

www.nature.com

Anecdotal evidence indicates that people believe that morality is declining1,2. In a series of studies using both archival and original data (n = 12,492,983), we show that people in at least 60 nations around the world believe that morality is declining, that they have believed this for at least 70 years and that they attribute this decline both to the decreasing morality of individuals as they age and to the decreasing morality of successive generations. Next, we show that people’s reports of the morality of their contemporaries have not declined over time, suggesting that the perception of moral decline is an illusion. Finally, we show how a simple mechanism based on two well-established psychological phenomena (biased exposure to information and biased memory for information) can produce an illusion of moral decline, and we report studies that confirm two of its predictions about the circumstances under which the perception of moral decline is attenuated, eliminated or reversed (that is, when respondents are asked about the morality of people they know well or people who lived before the respondent was born). Together, our studies show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced. This illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources3, the underuse of social support4 and social influence5.

An accurate study of history will reveal that the general morality index for our world populace has actually improved greatly.
At the height of its glory the Roman empire fostered slavery, codified misogyny, totally ignored pedophilia and allowed fathers to sell their children into slavery or kill them with no consequence. This is what people call the good old days.

 

[skews13]

Politics is wrapped in the narrative that we are suffering through a moral decline. Turns out, that is NOT true, so quit fretting.

Nature.com published a study a few weeks back that not only disputed the narrative of a moral decline but also offered up the factors that push people to believe it:

Biased Exposure: People are predominantly exposed to the bad stories of others (if it bleeds it leads)

Biased Memory: Bad things fade faster than good things leaving a more favorable view of the past.

Those two biases fool people into thinking everyone else is suffering and that they used to live in an easier time and there it is… things must be worse. Guess what? All evidence to the contrary and it is seen in many contemporary countries.

The illusion of moral decline - Nature

We show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced, and suggest that this illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources, the underuse of social support and social influence.

www.nature.com

Anecdotal evidence indicates that people believe that morality is declining1,2. In a series of studies using both archival and original data (n = 12,492,983), we show that people in at least 60 nations around the world believe that morality is declining, that they have believed this for at least 70 years and that they attribute this decline both to the decreasing morality of individuals as they age and to the decreasing morality of successive generations. Next, we show that people’s reports of the morality of their contemporaries have not declined over time, suggesting that the perception of moral decline is an illusion. Finally, we show how a simple mechanism based on two well-established psychological phenomena (biased exposure to information and biased memory for information) can produce an illusion of moral decline, and we report studies that confirm two of its predictions about the circumstances under which the perception of moral decline is attenuated, eliminated or reversed (that is, when respondents are asked about the morality of people they know well or people who lived before the respondent was born). Together, our studies show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced. This illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources3, the underuse of social support4 and social influence5.

Moral decline?

A country created on the genocide of millions of native people, and built on the backs of millions of murdered, and enslaved people?

A country that stole $trillions of it's own peoples wealth, to give to plutocrats, and politicians?

That country?

Yep. I can see how someone could see a moral decline in a country like that.

 

[Chillicothe]

"You can't support the things Democrats support, and be moral."

You know I often hear that very argument flipped about Christianists/Evangelicals vis-a-vis their support for Don Trump.
I think that 'flip' has traction ala' Trump multiple documented adulteries against three wives, the finding he raped E.Jean Carroll, the thousands of lawsuits against him for stiffing contractors, vendors, tradesmen, suppliers, employees, ad infinitum. And just for fun, throw in those 30,000+ lies that the New York Times exhaustively documented. Yeah, 'morality' can be a thing.

Personally ...and I say this as neither a Democrat, a Christianist, or a Don Trump fan or non-fan....but I personally think the charge against the Christianists has more truthiness than Andy's broadside against Democrats.

But that's just me.

"Infidelity is 27%, and that alone shows the decline of morals."

Which circles us right back to Andy's fanboying for Don Trump.
Don Trump --- 3 wives, two divorces, documented multiple adulteries against all three wives. Yeah, Andy, you go there.

 

[Lesh]

You know I often hear that very argument flipped about Christianists/Evangelicals vis-a-vis their support for Don Trump.
I think that 'flip' has traction ala' Trump multiple documented adulteries against three wives, the finding he raped E.Jean Carroll, the thousands of lawsuits against him for stiffing contractors, vendors, tradesmen, suppliers, employees, ad infinitum. And just for fun, throw in those 30,000+ lies that the New York Times exhaustively documented. Yeah, 'morality' can be a thing.

Personally ...and I say this as neither a Democrat, a Christianist, or a Don Trump fan or non-fan....but I personally think the charge against the Christianists has more truthiness than Andy's broadside against Democrats.

But that's just me.



Which circles us right back to Andy's fanboying for Don Trump.
Don Trump --- 3 wives, two divorces, documented multiple adulteries against all three wives. Yeah, Andy, you go there.

There’s your “moral decline”

 

[Chillicothe]

"Yeah, then Jesus said fuck all that,"

Per our prolific poster, Sea7, the 'Word-of-the-Lord' is f*ck?

Who knew?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Per our prolific poster, Sea7, the 'Word-of-the-Lord' is f*ck?

Who knew?

 

[martybegan]

Politics is wrapped in the narrative that we are suffering through a moral decline. Turns out, that is NOT true, so quit fretting.

Nature.com published a study a few weeks back that not only disputed the narrative of a moral decline but also offered up the factors that push people to believe it:

Biased Exposure: People are predominantly exposed to the bad stories of others (if it bleeds it leads)

Biased Memory: Bad things fade faster than good things leaving a more favorable view of the past.

Those two biases fool people into thinking everyone else is suffering and that they used to live in an easier time and there it is… things must be worse. Guess what? All evidence to the contrary and it is seen in many contemporary countries.

The illusion of moral decline - Nature

We show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced, and suggest that this illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources, the underuse of social support and social influence.

www.nature.com

Anecdotal evidence indicates that people believe that morality is declining1,2. In a series of studies using both archival and original data (n = 12,492,983), we show that people in at least 60 nations around the world believe that morality is declining, that they have believed this for at least 70 years and that they attribute this decline both to the decreasing morality of individuals as they age and to the decreasing morality of successive generations. Next, we show that people’s reports of the morality of their contemporaries have not declined over time, suggesting that the perception of moral decline is an illusion. Finally, we show how a simple mechanism based on two well-established psychological phenomena (biased exposure to information and biased memory for information) can produce an illusion of moral decline, and we report studies that confirm two of its predictions about the circumstances under which the perception of moral decline is attenuated, eliminated or reversed (that is, when respondents are asked about the morality of people they know well or people who lived before the respondent was born). Together, our studies show that the perception of moral decline is pervasive, perdurable, unfounded and easily produced. This illusion has implications for research on the misallocation of scarce resources3, the underuse of social support4 and social influence5.

Fired for his act of love in the senate

Now more than ever, we need to circle the wagons around Aidan Maese-Czeropski, and say with a unison voice:

Aidan’s termination by Senator Ben Cardin is an affront to individual freedoms, as it sends a chilling message about the consequences of expressing love in a public, political space.

Aidan’s prosecution by the Capitol police is blatant political corruption and weaponization of justice against a marginalized person.

Aidan’s persecution by right-wing nutbars writ large is a threat to his life and the life of every LGBTQ individual in this country.

This cannot stand. The fight has just begun.

 

[Blaster]

Only a person in denial would think our country is not in moral decline.