The GREATEST war crime

Some historians claim that it wasn't the bombs that made Japan surrender, but what they were facing if they didn't surrender. they were facing a mainland invasion from the US from the South and Russian invasion from the West. This is all assuming the US only had two bombs. I read somewhere we had a third one. Just something to chew on.

two bombs...you have to remember that the exodus of jews (look jillian you know i dont mean to be insulting but jews is just what is the easier to type) from germany brought some of the greatest minds in history with it....the bomb was planned....debated what the hell would happen....then built....the delivery of the bomb itself was ingenious....drop and head up as fast as you could.....cause they didnt expect to live so it was a what the fuck moment for the men of the plane ..they were told they most likely would not live..

now a link for you to look at:

Just before the First World War two German scientists, James Franck and Gustav Hertz carried out experiments where they bombarded mercury atoms with electrons and traced the energy changes that resulted from the collisions. Their experiments helped to substantiate they theory put forward by Nils Bohr that an atom can absorb internal energy only in precise and definite amounts.

In 1921 two Otto Hahn and Lise Meitner, discovered nuclear isomers. Over the next few years they devoted their time to researching the application of radioactive methods to chemical problems.

In the 1930s they became interested in the research being carried out by Enrico Fermi and Emilio Segre at the University of Rome. This included experiments where elements such as uranium were bombarded with neutrons. By 1935 the two men had discovered slow neutrons, which have properties important to the operation of nuclear reactors.

Otto Hahn and Lise Meitner were now joined by Fritz Strassmann and discovered that uranium nuclei split when bombarded with neutrons. In 1938 Meitner, like other Jews in Nazi Germany, was dismissed from her university post. She moved to Sweden and later that year she wrote a paper on nuclear fission with her nephew, Otto Frisch, where they argued that by splitting the atom it was possible to use a few pounds of uranium to create the explosive and destructive power of many thousands of pounds of dynamite.

Atom Bomb

a wee bit more


On 2nd August, 1939, three Jewish scientists who had fled to the United States from Europe, Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard and Eugene Wigner, wrote a joint letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, about the developments that had been taking place in nuclear physics. They warned Roosevelt that scientists in Germany were working on the possibility of using uranium to produce nuclear weapons.

Roosevelt responded by setting up a scientific advisory committee to investigate the matter. He also had talks with the British government about ways of sabotaging the German efforts to produce nuclear weapons

now for your confusion in the number of bombs...the us had 3.....one used to test with.....two dropped on japan....was it ethical...well hell yea....and you must remember truman was vp under most of this and then gets the call up to president right when there could be no hesitation....as assault on the mainland of japan would have costs unknonw numbers of american and allied lives...there was no doubt it would take something of major power to diswayed the emeperior who believe he was god like...you must look at this in the social context of the times....look at the history of the tinman..see the major battles and minor ones that decide the pacific ....look at the history of the kamikaze bombers ....the us would have lost thousands of men....

then look at the character of harry s truman...and you will see...he had no other choice...he would have accepted the "unconditional surrender of japan" at any time..prior to the fat boy and pior to the little boy...

do people just not have any damned concept of what ww2 was.....its not the glam and glory of the history channnel
 
...there was no doubt it would take something of major power to diswayed the emeperior who believe he was god like...

I think you're wrong about that. Yes, the people might have revered him as a GOD, but I doubt he was confused about who he was. He knew perfectly well that he was but a man.

After all, the emperor of Japan was often little more than a prisoner of whatever Shogun controlled the island.

The emperor was essantially not in control of Japan for his entire lieftime.

All he had to work with was the reverence that the PEOPLE held him in, and until the militarists were defeated and disgraced by their failures, he was virtually their prisoner.

But as the war was winding down the emperor WAS PERSONALLY involved in diplomatic petitions to end the war, Stroll.

What he knew was this...the Japanese people would NOT tolerate the violation of his monachy or his person.

So yes, that single condition was part of his surrender proposition.

And it seems obvious that the Americans understood that fact, too.

Remember that the emperor was kept in place after we took over.

I SUSPECT that the bombs were dropped because the poltical/military momentum to drop them was just too great NOT to.

Remember that Truman had just teken office and he needed to NOT make a mistake.

So going along with the military establishments plans that were in motion before he took office was likely what happened.

Much like how Kennedy went along with the Bay of Pigs even though he wasn't really on top of that plan.
 
pst when they burn down yo ur white house...thats not winning....but i digress


president harry s truman had guts and balls...he bombed them once...warned them ahead....said .....surrender...uncontionally...to avoid the 2nd bomb...they refused..he bombed them again....told them again...uncontional surrender or a 3rd bomb would be dropped...fuck what you say or care....the lives of many allies as well as our own men were saved by a man willing to have the balls to drop an unknown weapon and then to bluff like hell....we had no 3 rd bomb...but we had a man willing to go balls to wall....to receive the unconditional surrender of japan....

we will never know how many lives president truman saved....

but if he only saved one american, one brit, one allied solider...he was right to do it....you talk of civilian deaths...collateral damages...the only fucking collateral damage i give a flying fuck about is the mother braver than me....the one who was willing to let her son or daughter go....if bombing those 2 cities saved one mother from heartbreak...then president truman made the right decision....debate it all you want

Yes, thank goodness Truman had the guts to incinerate children.

you would prefer Japan rise again and raise more hell.
 
pst when they burn down yo ur white house...thats not winning....but i digress


president harry s truman had guts and balls...he bombed them once...warned them ahead....said .....surrender...uncontionally...to avoid the 2nd bomb...they refused..he bombed them again....told them again...uncontional surrender or a 3rd bomb would be dropped...fuck what you say or care....the lives of many allies as well as our own men were saved by a man willing to have the balls to drop an unknown weapon and then to bluff like hell....we had no 3 rd bomb...but we had a man willing to go balls to wall....to receive the unconditional surrender of japan....

we will never know how many lives president truman saved....

but if he only saved one american, one brit, one allied solider...he was right to do it....you talk of civilian deaths...collateral damages...the only fucking collateral damage i give a flying fuck about is the mother braver than me....the one who was willing to let her son or daughter go....if bombing those 2 cities saved one mother from heartbreak...then president truman made the right decision....debate it all you want

Yes, thank goodness Truman had the guts to incinerate children.

you would prefer Japan rise again and raise more hell.

That's an assumption on your part, but yes I would have preferred we try to end the war with Japan diplomatically rather than kill innocent civilians.
 
Yes, thank goodness Truman had the guts to incinerate children.

you would prefer Japan rise again and raise more hell.

That's an assumption on your part, but yes I would have preferred we try to end the war with Japan diplomatically rather than kill innocent civilians.

wasnt going to end diplomatically. they were prepared to fight to the death. and the Japs shouldn't have started something they couldn't finish.
 
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you would prefer Japan rise again and raise more hell.

That's an assumption on your part, but yes I would have preferred we try to end the war with Japan diplomatically rather than kill innocent civilians.

wasnt going to end diplomatically. they were prepared to fight to the death. and the Japs shouldn't have started something they couldn't finish.

Again, that's an assumption on your point. With Hitler and Mussolini gone I'm sure Japan would have been willing to concede some things to the United States to end the war. But being diplomatic doesn't mean that Japan would have to capitulate to every one of our government's demands.

As to the "Japs" not starting something they can't finish, how many of those civilians and children that were killed do you think had anything to do with Pearl Harbor?
 
by elvis3577: "and the Japs shouldn't have started something they couldn't finish."

P01234_010_450.jpg

Civilian casualties on a footpath in an Hiroshima street awaiting medical treatment after the atomic bomb was dropped.



The Japanese valiant attack on the slumbering Pearl harbour will go down in history as a bold and brave military manoeuvre, with virtually no civilian losses, and certainly more killed as a result of 'friendly fire'.

The American sneak dropping of Atomic weapons on Hundreds of thousands of civilians on the other hand will go down in history as one of the most cowardly endeavours known to Man. A chapter which adequately characterises the modern American nation, and its political leadership.

Unable to face the Japanese in conventional direct warfare. Instead turning on the Japanese soldier's women and children at home, behind the war lines. Vaporising innocents as they go to school and as they journey out, shopping.


The following is an excerpt from: "Hiroshima was no longer a city"
By Mikki Smith ( full article: ISR issue 13 | "Hiroshima was no longer a city" )

"The exact number of people who were murdered by the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs--both immediately and in the months following--is difficult to determine. The Hiroshima International Council for Health Care of the Radiation-exposed estimates the population of Hiroshima at the time of the bombing to have been between 340,000 and 350,000. By the end of December 1945, 140,000 people had died. Of this total number, approximately 20,000--less than 15 percent of the casualties--were military personnel.8 As Truman acknowledged, a great many of the victims had been children, as well as women and the elderly. By 1950, the continuing effects of radiation raised the death toll in Hiroshima to 200,000.9 In Nagasaki, with an estimated population of 250,000 people at the time of the bombing, approximately 70,000 people had died of its effects by the end of 1945.10 It was reported that only 150 of these were Japanese military personnel."11


8) For more information about the effects of the bomb on Hiroshima, visit the HICARE Web site at Hiroshima International Council for Health Care of the Radiation-exposed (as of July 14, 2000).
9) Rhodes, p. 734.
10) Rhodes, p. 740.
11) Unites States Strategic Bombing Survey, "The Effects of Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki," cited in Alperovitz, Decision, p. 534n.
 
That's an assumption on your part, but yes I would have preferred we try to end the war with Japan diplomatically rather than kill innocent civilians.

wasnt going to end diplomatically. they were prepared to fight to the death. and the Japs shouldn't have started something they couldn't finish.

Again, that's an assumption on your point. With Hitler and Mussolini gone I'm sure Japan would have been willing to concede some things to the United States to end the war. But being diplomatic doesn't mean that Japan would have to capitulate to every one of our government's demands.

As to the "Japs" not starting something they can't finish, how many of those civilians and children that were killed do you think had anything to do with Pearl Harbor?

Surrender for the Japanese (happy now?) was disgraceful. They would rather die than surrender. That mentality had been in their culture for centuries. The civilians were prepared to fight to the death against a mainland invasion, so they certainly were not ready to surrender. They would have been willing to concede "some" things? Probably not their militaristic government. After all the war crimes the Japanese committed, I have no sympathy for them.
Now, if you would like to discuss whether the bombs or the prospect of facing a mainland invasion from both directions caused their surrender, I would enjoy discussing that.
As for the bombs? just desserts for not surrendering.
 
America was guilty of the greatest crime against humanity when she dropped the atomic bomb on the innocent women and children of Japan in 1945. America continues to commit crimes against humanity - tortue, slaughter of innocent women and children of Iraq by dropping bombs on them, invasions of sovereign countries like Panama. Even within the boundaries of the USA crimes against humanity are commited by injecting poison into the arms of criminals and by denying basic health care to the poor. SHAME on America, shame.....................
 
America was guilty of the greatest crime against humanity when she dropped the atomic bomb on the innocent women and children of Japan in 1945. America continues to commit crimes against humanity - tortue, slaughter of innocent women and children of Iraq by dropping bombs on them, invasions of sovereign countries like Panama. Even within the boundaries of the USA crimes against humanity are commited by injecting poison into the arms of criminals and by denying basic health care to the poor. SHAME on America, shame.....................

I can't wait until we come after the Yukon territory so we can torture you.
 
by elvis3577: "and the Japs shouldn't have started something they couldn't finish."

P01234_010_450.jpg

Civilian casualties on a footpath in an Hiroshima street awaiting medical treatment after the atomic bomb was dropped.



The Japanese valiant attack on the slumbering Pearl harbour will go down in history as a bold and brave military manoeuvre, with virtually no civilian losses, and certainly more killed as a result of 'friendly fire'.

The American sneak dropping of Atomic weapons on Hundreds of thousands of civilians on the other hand will go down in history as one of the most cowardly endeavours known to Man. A chapter which adequately characterises the modern American nation, and its political leadership.

Unable to face the Japanese in conventional direct warfare. Instead turning on the Japanese soldier's women and children at home, behind the war lines. Vaporising innocents as they go to school and as they journey out, shopping.


The following is an excerpt from: "Hiroshima was no longer a city"
By Mikki Smith ( full article: ISR issue 13 | "Hiroshima was no longer a city" )

"The exact number of people who were murdered by the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs--both immediately and in the months following--is difficult to determine. The Hiroshima International Council for Health Care of the Radiation-exposed estimates the population of Hiroshima at the time of the bombing to have been between 340,000 and 350,000. By the end of December 1945, 140,000 people had died. Of this total number, approximately 20,000--less than 15 percent of the casualties--were military personnel.8 As Truman acknowledged, a great many of the victims had been children, as well as women and the elderly. By 1950, the continuing effects of radiation raised the death toll in Hiroshima to 200,000.9 In Nagasaki, with an estimated population of 250,000 people at the time of the bombing, approximately 70,000 people had died of its effects by the end of 1945.10 It was reported that only 150 of these were Japanese military personnel."11


8) For more information about the effects of the bomb on Hiroshima, visit the HICARE Web site at Hiroshima International Council for Health Care of the Radiation-exposed (as of July 14, 2000).
9) Rhodes, p. 734.
10) Rhodes, p. 740.
11) Unites States Strategic Bombing Survey, "The Effects of Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki," cited in Alperovitz, Decision, p. 534n.

Deflection. Elvis put a boot up your ass and you failed to respond.

Are you and Yukon dating by any chance?
 
Gunny,

Do you look underyour bed and inside your closet for Communists before retiring for the night ? I hear Commies like to hide under Trailers too.
 
Gunny,

Do you look underyour bed and inside your closet for Communists before retiring for the night ? I hear Commies like to hide under Trailers too.

What's the matter? Couldn't catch the altar boys today?
 
I bet he has a gold tooth, drives a pickup truck, wears a baseball cap, has a beer belly and when he bends over slightly the crack in his buttocks is exposed.
 
I bet he has a gold tooth, drives a pickup truck, wears a baseball cap, has a beer belly and when he bends over slightly the crack in his buttocks is exposed.

Matter of fact, I drive a BIG pickup truck, and wear baseball caps. I wear Wrangler jeans, pearlsnap western shirts and boots too, and own a belt buckle as big as the license plate on your tricycle.

And?

No gold tooth, no beer belly and my ass fits INSIDE my jeans, you-con. I know you probably had to go rub one out at the thought of looking at some guy's hairy ass-crack, but you'll have no such luck here.
 
I bet he has a gold tooth, drives a pickup truck, wears a baseball cap, has a beer belly and when he bends over slightly the crack in his buttocks is exposed.

Matter of fact, I drive a BIG pickup truck, and wear baseball caps. I wear Wrangler jeans, pearlsnap western shirts and boots too, and own a belt buckle as big as the license plate on your tricycle.

And?

No gold tooth, no beer belly and my ass fits INSIDE my jeans, you-con. I know you probably had to go rub one out at the thought of looking at some guy's hairy ass-crack, but you'll have no such luck here.

Yukon was describing himself ... :eusa_shhh:
 

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