The Gospel of Unbelief

[rtwngAvngr]

I hope you don't mind my stepping in here...but I've been watching you guys go back and forth on this for days...

Yes, a majority can be oppressed by the minority. But that only occurs when the minority has political/military power to enforce its will on the majority.

Or courts and a pernicious bevvy of lawyers willing to misread the constitution to enact defacto discrimination against specified religious groups

Christians in this country are not "oppressed'. No one Christian is prohibited from going to Church and practicing his or her religion freely and openly. What has become a debate about "oppression" is really a result of the tension between evangelicals who want to assert their political power and blur the lines between Church and State and the rest of the country which has tried, in the face of huge power and money from the far right, to keep that from happening.

Christians as individuals have the right to shape society through the democratic and constitutional processes available to them, just like individuals of other faiths.

If the far right can frame the issue as "Christian-bashing", instead of what it is -- which is a fight against the theocratization of the U.S., then they get the average, everyday Christians to side with them. Because who wouldn't protect their group from being discriminated against?

So... the desire of the vast majority of the country to not be a theocracy should not be confused with a lack of basic respect for religious diversity in this country. Nor should the issue be framed in such a way that it is called what it isn't.

So... yes, Virginia, a majority can be oppressed. But Christians in the U.S. aren't. Just my two cents.

Nobody's trying to theocratize the country. This is paranoia. Why does the aclu was time suing about decorations at christmas time?

 

[Nuc]

there's no analogy. The majority can be oppressed. It's a fact.

The majority can be oppressed but if they are it's because they are inferior in some way. That's social Darwinism. If you feel like you are part of a majority that's being oppressed then look in the mirror and figure out what's wrong with you and your cohorts.

I am also a white male and sometimes I am irritated by women, minorities or some other group I don't belong to, but not oppressed.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Christians as individuals have the right to shape society through the democratic and constitutional processes available to them, just like individuals of other faiths.

Something tells me that if it actually were individuals of other faiths, you wouldn't be quite so comfortable with that statement.

 

[dilloduck]

The majority can be oppressed but if they are it's because they are inferior in some way. That's social Darwinism. If you feel like you are part of a majority that's being oppressed then look in the mirror and figure out what's wrong with you and your cohorts.

I am also a white male and sometimes I am irritated by women, minorities or some other group I don't belong to, but not oppressed.

Inferior? Maybe thier belief systems prevent them from stooping as low as thier oppressors. Quite a catch 22 for Christians. If they turn the other cheek to those who would kill them, they will soon all be dead. Maybe Christianity just isn't evolving fast enough.

 

[Nuc]

Inferior? Maybe thier belief systems prevent them from stooping as low as thier oppressors. Quite a catch 22 for Christians. If they turn the other cheek to those who would kill them, they will soon all be dead. Maybe Christianity just isn't evolving fast enough.

Christians occupy every strata of our society, from the lowest (Catholic illegal immigrants) to the highest (Bush). Therefore they fall into the category of both oppressor and oppressed. Sometimes they oppress each other.

 

[dilloduck]

Christians occupy every strata of our society, from the lowest (Catholic illegal immigrants) to the highest (Bush). Therefore they fall into the category of both oppressor and oppressed. Sometimes they oppress each other.

Thus proving that members of a majority can be oppressed.

 

[Nuc]

Thus proving that members of a majority can be oppressed.

Good one

People can belong to more than one group at a time. For example the migrant workers, if they are oppressed it's because of their minority racial status, not their majority religious status.

 

[dilloduck]

Good one

People can belong to more than one group at a time. For example the migrant workers, if they are oppressed it's because of their minority racial status, not their majority religious status.

I had a government prof tell me that the key to controlling a democracy was having each individual person be a member of multiple minorities. This way any time members of a single minority would try to organize thier power would collapse due to infighting amongst other minority affiliations. I don't know if this plays out as true or not but I thought it was an interesting commentary.

 

[Nuc]

I had a government prof tell me that the key to controlling a democracy was having each individual person be a member of multiple minorities. This way any time members of a single minority would try to organize thier power would collapse due to infighting amongst other minority affiliations. I don't know if this plays out as true or not but I thought it was an interesting commentary.

Sure it plays out. Look at women. They are the majority so theoretically they could be calling the shots, but because they divide their loyalties between different minority mentalities (feminist, fundamentalist, subservient housewife, black, whatever) they never use their majority status to accomplish any unified processes.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Sure it plays out. Look at women. They are the majority so theoretically they could be calling the shots, but because they divide their loyalties between different minority mentalities (feminist, fundamentalist, subservient housewife, black, whatever) they never use their majority status to accomplish any unified processes.

Is that like saying they're bitchy?

 

[Nuc]

Is that like saying they're bitchy?

No it's like saying, if you're the majority, why whine about stuff? Get the other women on your side and change society.

Which is the same thing I say to you. If you're a Christian and if you think Christians are always getting their asses kicked by atheists, ACLU, NAMBLA, illegal immigrants, pizza deliverymen, Teletubbies and so forth, stop whining and do something about it. Or you prove that they have outwitted you and yours, which is social Darwinism.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No it's like saying, if you're the majority, why whine about stuff? Get the other women on your side and change society.

Which is the same thing I say to you. If you're a Christian and if you think Christians are always getting their asses kicked by atheists, ACLU, NAMBLA, illegal immigrants, pizza deliverymen, Teletubbies and so forth, stop whining and do something about it. Or you prove that they have outwitted you and yours, which is social Darwinism.

I do something about it. I point it out.

 

[Nuc]

I do something about it. I point it out.

Cowering in a basement and sending stuff to message boards where half the people are even more extreme than you are is not exactly the epitomy of courage. :teeth: :baby4:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Cowering in a basement and sending stuff to message boards where half the people are even more extreme than you are is not exactly the epitomy of courage. :teeth: :baby4:

We're just saying. There is a heavy anti-christian bias in large segments of society.

 

[dilloduck]

No it's like saying, if you're the majority, why whine about stuff? Get the other women on your side and change society.

Which is the same thing I say to you. If you're a Christian and if you think Christians are always getting their asses kicked by atheists, ACLU, NAMBLA, illegal immigrants, pizza deliverymen, Teletubbies and so forth, stop whining and do something about it. Or you prove that they have outwitted you and yours, which is social Darwinism.

Christians DO act even though they get accused of trying to impose thier values on others and interjecting religion into government.

 

[Darwins Friend]

Purple Teletubbies are gay.

 

[jillian]

Christians DO act even though they get accused of trying to impose thier values on others and interjecting religion into government.

Do you think evangelicals don't try to interject religion into government?

 

[dilloduck]

Do you think evangelicals don't try to interject religion into government?

Actually they are just tryin to keep it there--right where the founding fathers put it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Do you think evangelicals don't try to interject religion into government?

Is a law against murder interjecting religion into government? It is one of the ten commandments.

 

[jillian]

Actually they are just tryin to keep it there--right where the founding fathers put it.

Actually, the founding fathers did their darndest to make sure there wouldn't be any state-sanctioned religion.