The GOP health care plan is only four (4!) short & easy-to-read pages

[Mr. Peepers]

Obama is not interested in the slightest in providing healthcare for anyone. He is interested in CONTROLLING healthcare.

Seriously? Are you that delusional? Who in their right mind would want to have the job of "controlling" healthcare for an entire population, hmm? What great "power" would that give one? Who would even WANT that job? You need to lay off the republicant "talky points of the day". Sheesh. Don't you think it would put us ahead economically, productively and globally to have a healthy populace and to spend less money engorging private industries' CEO's - ahem, I mean death panels - and actually became healthier and more productive?

 

[kwc57]

the dems (alias the gov: They don't need repubs to vote for anything, they have enough to do it without them) will not put any details in these bills.
It will be used to create a national id system, complete with: Number, fingerprints, blood sample, urine sample, dna evidence, organ donor info and bank account info.
If the gov is not stopped, it will change into a way to limit rights, it will supercede the bill of rights (that will never be said in public), by being used by group (s) in power to limit health care for those that oppose them.
As more time goes by, it will be used to decide who gets to reproduce and who doesn't (does your family history include expensive medical treatments or disease, then your children must be neutered to receive medical care, sign here.
This is a nightmare disguised as humane help. There are no provisions for citizens rights in these bills, there are no provisions on limiting the information that can go to the gov to protect privacy. It might even be open to the freedom of info act? Keep gov out of doctor's offices and medical records.

View attachment 8019

Can you show me where the protections are in place in any of the dem's bills for the citizens/patients?
I have never known the gov to limit itself once a bill has been passed. If it isn't in the original, it won't be in the final draft.

Sorry, it is up to you to prove your claims. Show me where It will be used to create a national id system, complete with: Number, fingerprints, blood sample, urine sample, dna evidence, organ donor info and bank account info. Look, I'm not in favor of Obama's plan, but I don't see a boogie man around every corner. Methinks you are listening to too many talk heads on the radio making all sorts of fantastic apocalyptic claims.

 

[kwc57]

Yes that is the GOP outline....short and sweet....

The points you list above are pretty self-explanatory as to intent....

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is much like Obama's "yes we can". Heavy on hope, light on details.........and as I said earlier, the devil is in the details. Nobody disagrees with any of the outline bullet points. They state the obvious. What they don't state is HOW you PLAN to actually accomplish the bullet point.

A chicken in every pot is a great campaign promise. How the chickens make it to your pot is a whole other story.

I disagree....the two plans are fundamentally different...

...go take another look at points 2, 3, and 4....very different from Obama's plan....

....in Obama's health plan those damned government chickens will definitely come home to roost...

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is much like Obama's "yes we can". Heavy on hope, light on details.........and as I said earlier, the devil is in the details. Nobody disagrees with any of the outline bullet points. They state the obvious. What they don't state is HOW you PLAN to actually accomplish the bullet point.

A chicken in every pot is a great campaign promise. How the chickens make it to your pot is a whole other story.

I disagree....the two plans are fundamentally different...

...go take another look at points 2, 3, and 4....very different from Obama's plan....

....in Obama's health plan those damned government chickens will definitely come home to roost...

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

 

[gcomeau]

I disagree....the two plans are fundamentally different...

...go take another look at points 2, 3, and 4....very different from Obama's plan....

....in Obama's health plan those damned government chickens will definitely come home to roost...

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

So let me get this straight. you started a thread to extol the virtues of the Republican health care "plan" but at the same time are saying that the GOP actually explaining how the plan works is unimportant since the Republicans don't control congress?

Wow.

Well, I don't control congress either. So now allow me to present the ultimate health care plan. Prepare to bow down before my genius.

"Make health care like totally perfect!"

Feel free to worship at my feet now that you have witnessed the awe inspiring product of my efforts. Sure, I don't do squat to explain how I will acheive that, but according to your criteria that kind of thing is only for people who control congress, so I'm done! Woo!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

So let me get this straight. you started a thread to extol the virtues of the Republican health care "plan" but at the same time are saying that the GOP actually explaining how the plan works is unimportant since the Republicans don't control congress?

Wow.

Well, I don't control congress either. So now allow me to present the ultimate health care plan. Prepare to bow down before my genius.

"Make health care like totally perfect!"

Feel free to worship at my feet now that you have witnessed the awe inspiring product of my efforts. Sure, I don't do squat to explain how I will acheive that, but according to your criteria that kind of thing is only for people who control congress, so I'm done! Woo!

Don't be like totally an idiot....the GOP plan has four pages of MANY great ideas you can chew on....you probably haven't even read them...

 

[dilloduck]

That is like an outline that basically says, "we need to do something". The devil is in the details of which there are none in those four pages. When you start adding in the details of "how" you will actually accomplish the items in the outline, you will get 1,000+ pages.

For instance......

Promoting Healthy Living and Quality Care for All Americans Now and
Tomorrow:

Innovations in treatment and access to quality health care information are critical to
ensuring Americans receive the best possible care. It’s no secret that patients in other
countries are often denied care or die waiting to get access to the top treatments.

To promote prevention and wellness while ensuring every American has access to
high quality health care, the Republican plan:

• Promotes prevention and wellness by giving employers and insurers greater flexibility
to financially reward employees who seek to achieve or maintain a healthy weight,
quit smoking, and manage chronic illnesses like diabetes. How?
• Rewards high-quality care, instead of encouraging health care providers to order more
and unnecessary services. How?
• Uses new and innovative treatment programs to better coordinate care between health
care providers, ensuring that those with chronic disease receive the care they need and
do not continue to fall through the cracks. How?
• Encourages the creation of health plan finders to provide patients with the tools to
easily find the right health plan that best meets their needs. How?
• Gives patients access to health care information so that they can identify and select
health care providers who deliver high-quality care at a lower cost. How?
• Makes health care more convenient by eliminating bureaucratic red tape to expand
access to Community Health Centers that are so critical to underserved areas, both in
large cities and in rural America. How?
• Encourages home care and independence for patients rather than forcing individuals
into institutionalized settings. How?
• Promotes seniors' access to the doctors they need by modernizing Medicare
reimbursements. How?
• Provides incentives to physicians who enter the field of primary care, helping to
ensure all Americans have access to the doctors they need. How?

Yes that is the GOP outline....short and sweet....

The points you list above are pretty self-explanatory as to intent....

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is much like Obama's "yes we can". Heavy on hope, light on details.........and as I said earlier, the devil is in the details. Nobody disagrees with any of the outline bullet points. They state the obvious. What they don't state is HOW you PLAN to actually accomplish the bullet point.

A chicken in every pot is a great campaign promise. How the chickens make it to your pot is a whole other story.

Don't we just steal them from someone who has more than we do ?

 

[Dr.House]

BTW, I'm a registered Republican conservative. We got nothing.

Most conservatives I know are loudly against spending money we don't have on an unread healthcare plan that's being rammed down our throats...

Maybe you should be a little less "Republican" and a little more "conservative"...

 

[Chris]

I'll take a Republican outline over a Liberal plan any day. The healthcare system does NOT need to be overhauled, just tweaked. Obamacare will screw up healthcare for the 85-90% of us who have worked all our lives for the good healthcare we have. Obama is not interested in the slightest in providing healthcare for anyone. He is interested in CONTROLLING healthcare. It's simply a power grab. Use your heads people! Get out there and raise some hell. Call your rep and tell them HELL NO! Stop this socialist bastard from ruining my country!

You really need to move out of your mom's basement.

 

[Polk]

It would help if they wouldn't make stuff up. For example, the "eliminate the health care coverage that more than 100 million Americans currently receive through their job" claim, which is utter crap.

 

[Maple]

...plus it contains way more common sense than Obama's 1,000+ pages of gobbledegook...

You can read it here:

www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf?tag=ContentMain;contentBody

That is the common sense approach, it is a little longer than 4 pages though and it can be found by googling HR 3400. There is absolutely no need for HR 3200, it will increase costs and decrease care according to the CBO, congressional budget office, which is a group of non-partisan number crunchers. Yet, we have the dems out in force trying to stick it to the American people, it just isn't going to happen. Take a look at the polls, Americans have seen the disastors that happen when we let the government manage or run anything. They have a tendency to bankrupt anything they get their greasy fat little fingers into.

 

[kwc57]

I disagree....the two plans are fundamentally different...

...go take another look at points 2, 3, and 4....very different from Obama's plan....

....in Obama's health plan those damned government chickens will definitely come home to roost...

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

So in other words, they are just paying lip service and have no actual intention of countering with a better idea.

 

[kwc57]

BTW, I'm a registered Republican conservative. We got nothing.

Most conservatives I know are loudly against spending money we don't have on an unread healthcare plan that's being rammed down our throats...

Maybe you should be a little less "Republican" and a little more "conservative"...

Oh trust me, I'm a very small R republican and a big C Conservative.......well, actually libertarian. I said I wasn't for Obama's plan. I also said that an outline from the other side is not a plan. I can write down a goal to build a rocket ship and vacation on the moon. But once I state the goal, I actually have to come up with a plan to make it happen if I really, really want to do it. My suspicion is that the opposition has no real interest of any kind in healthcare reform other than claiming to and throwing detail-less outlines on the table.

 

[kwc57]

...plus it contains way more common sense than Obama's 1,000+ pages of gobbledegook...

You can read it here:

www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf?tag=ContentMain;contentBody

That is the common sense approach, it is a little longer than 4 pages though and it can be found by googling HR 3400. There is absolutely no need for HR 3200, it will increase costs and decrease care according to the CBO, congressional budget office, which is a group of non-partisan number crunchers. Yet, we have the dems out in force trying to stick it to the American people, it just isn't going to happen. Take a look at the polls, Americans have seen the disastors that happen when we let the government manage or run anything. They have a tendency to bankrupt anything they get their greasy fat little fingers into.

As I pointed out earlier, Blunt's four page outline and Price's HR 4300 are two totally different things. Both from Republicans, but different proposals. HR 3400 actually has a plan with delivery items. The outline is nothing more than a set of goals and is not a plan.

 

[Dr.House]

BTW, I'm a registered Republican conservative. We got nothing.

Most conservatives I know are loudly against spending money we don't have on an unread healthcare plan that's being rammed down our throats...

Maybe you should be a little less "Republican" and a little more "conservative"...

Oh trust me, I'm a very small R republican and a big C Conservative.......well, actually libertarian.

Odd, since the vast majority of libertarians I know and converse with don't spend nearly as much time as you do defending 0bama and his Democratics... It's nice to hate Boooosh and all, but you have to throw in a few anti-Barry stuff now and again... Just sayin'...

I said I wasn't for Obama's plan. I also said that an outline from the other side is not a plan. I can write down a goal to build a rocket ship and vacation on the moon. But once I state the goal, I actually have to come up with a plan to make it happen if I really, really want to do it. My suspicion is that the opposition has no real interest of any kind in healthcare reform other than claiming to and throwing detail-less outlines on the table.

The "other side" floated out an outline of what they would work on should there be interest in them doing so... The minority party has no chance in hell of getting any bill passed, so spending time concocting a 1,000 page counter-plan is, well, counter productive... You float something out there, see who agrees, and hopefully the opposition hears from their constituents and, in a bipartisan spirit, works on the details...

But who we kidding, huh? The "We Won!" party has no desire to work with the R's on this thing and the American taxpayers will end up footing the bill with money we dont fucking have just so Barry Zero can say "Hey, I fixed the Healthcare!" for the next election cycle...

With a plan as bad as the one being rammed down out throats, doing the wrong thing is NOT better than doing nothing... It's like the end of the movie War Games, where even the computer figures out that the only winning option is not to play the game...

 

[kwc57]

Most conservatives I know are loudly against spending money we don't have on an unread healthcare plan that's being rammed down our throats...

Maybe you should be a little less "Republican" and a little more "conservative"...

Oh trust me, I'm a very small R republican and a big C Conservative.......well, actually libertarian.

Odd, since the vast majority of libertarians I know and converse with don't spend nearly as much time as you do defending 0bama and his Democratics... It's nice to hate Boooosh and all, but you have to throw in a few anti-Barry stuff now and again... Just sayin'...

I said I wasn't for Obama's plan. I also said that an outline from the other side is not a plan. I can write down a goal to build a rocket ship and vacation on the moon. But once I state the goal, I actually have to come up with a plan to make it happen if I really, really want to do it. My suspicion is that the opposition has no real interest of any kind in healthcare reform other than claiming to and throwing detail-less outlines on the table.

The "other side" floated out an outline of what they would work on should there be interest in them doing so... The minority party has no chance in hell of getting any bill passed, so spending time concocting a 1,000 page counter-plan is, well, counter productive... You float something out there, see who agrees, and hopefully the opposition hears from their constituents and, in a bipartisan spirit, works on the details...

But who we kidding, huh? The "We Won!" party has no desire to work with the R's on this thing and the American taxpayers will end up footing the bill with money we dont fucking have just so Barry Zero can say "Hey, I fixed the Healthcare!" for the next election cycle...

With a plan as bad as the one being rammed down out throats, doing the wrong thing is NOT better than doing nothing... It's like the end of the movie War Games, where even the computer figures out that the only winning option is not to play the game...

But the computer had to play the game to figure it out. You know, instead of trying to play gotcha politics and scoring talk radio points against the opposition, the opposition should be coming up with a better way of doing things and getting the ideas in front of people. If conservatives ever hope to regain lost seats in Congress and retake the Whitehouse, they are going to have to do better than say, "Obama is bad". The Republican party screwed the pooch for 8 solid years. Bozo the clown could have gotten elected after the fiasco they created while in power. for God's sake, the best campaign strategy they could come up with was, "yeah we screwed up, but they will screw up worse, so reelect us so it won't be any worse than it was". The American people said no thanks. Now the strategy seems to be to let Obama and the Democrats screw up for 4 years and then the American people will gladly take us back. Fuck that. Prove that you deserve the job and will do what you say. If you don't believe that healthcare reform is needed, say so and prove why you think it. If you think healthcare reform is needed, come up with a better plan and sell it. People will buy what they believe is a better product. If you build a better car at a resonable price and prove it is better, people will buy it. Saying "buy a Ford because it isn't a Chevy" isn't really the best way to sell you product. Right now, that is the Republican strategy. Vote Republican because we aren't Democrat. BFD. So, I reject your "conservative" idea that there is no point in trying since we have no control.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Let's do a little exercise. Tell the class how points 2, 3 and 4 in the outline will be delivered. What are the details of how it is delivered. I've worked in the financial data processing business for the last 30 years. We have a name for outlines like this........vaporware. Vaporware is when a vendor saleman tries to sell to a stated need a piece of software that does not yet exist. He sells them a promise as if it exists and then runs back to the office to tell the programmers to create what he sold.

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

So in other words, they are just paying lip service and have no actual intention of countering with a better idea.

It's not just lip service....it's a basic Republican outline....and a way of fighting back....as you know there's already been a republican bill introduced....HR3400 "Empowering Patients First Act"....(only 63 pages long)....but of course that bill has been hijacked and hidden from view in committees....and will remain there until Speaker Nancy Pelosi allows it to come forth....which will be never...

 

[kwc57]

Exercise yourself smartass....hammering out the details would be superfluous work since the Dems control Congress....only if they were to agree with the concepts in whole or in part would it be worth the work...but that ain't going to happen....

So in other words, they are just paying lip service and have no actual intention of countering with a better idea.

It's not just lip service....it's a basic Republican outline....and a way of fighting back....as you know there's already been a republican bill introduced....HR3400 "Empowering Patients First Act"....(only 63 pages long)....but of course that bill has been hijacked and hidden from view in committees....and will remain there until Speaker Nancy Pelosi allows it to come forth....which will be never...

As you know, HR 3400 isn't what you threw out as the Republican plan. You threw out a 4 page outline which are pie in the sky goals until they hang some meat on the bone. Of course Pelosi will try to bury it. Are Republican senators and representatives unable to hold their own town hall meetings? Is Fox News, the scores or conservative talk radio hosts and all the conservative magazines and internet pundits unable to put out the word? Didn't they kill illegal alien amnesty single handedly? You think they can't get the word out and create a stir if they had a real viable alternative plan?

I do.

But I think they want healthcare to remain the way it is. So they trot out an outline with no real intention of countering with a better idea. In other words, lip service to be able to say after the fact that they tried, but didn't have the "power" to change anything. Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So in other words, they are just paying lip service and have no actual intention of countering with a better idea.

It's not just lip service....it's a basic Republican outline....and a way of fighting back....as you know there's already been a republican bill introduced....HR3400 "Empowering Patients First Act"....(only 63 pages long)....but of course that bill has been hijacked and hidden from view in committees....and will remain there until Speaker Nancy Pelosi allows it to come forth....which will be never...

As you know, HR 3400 isn't what you threw out as the Republican plan. You threw out a 4 page outline which are pie in the sky goals until they hang some meat on the bone. Of course Pelosi will try to bury it. Are Republican senators and representatives unable to hold their own town hall meetings? Is Fox News, the scores or conservative talk radio hosts and all the conservative magazines and internet pundits unable to put out the word? Didn't they kill illegal alien amnesty single handedly? You think they can't get the word out and create a stir if they had a real viable alternative plan?

I do.

But I think they want healthcare to remain the way it is. So they trot out an outline with no real intention of countering with a better idea. In other words, lip service to be able to say after the fact that they tried, but didn't have the "power" to change anything. Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

And why is your Libertarian leader Ron Paul...who supports HR3400...therefore it must be "viable" and "a better mousetrap"....unable to "put out the word" and "create a stir"....and have "the world beat a path to his door"?

 

[kwc57]

It's not just lip service....it's a basic Republican outline....and a way of fighting back....as you know there's already been a republican bill introduced....HR3400 "Empowering Patients First Act"....(only 63 pages long)....but of course that bill has been hijacked and hidden from view in committees....and will remain there until Speaker Nancy Pelosi allows it to come forth....which will be never...

As you know, HR 3400 isn't what you threw out as the Republican plan. You threw out a 4 page outline which are pie in the sky goals until they hang some meat on the bone. Of course Pelosi will try to bury it. Are Republican senators and representatives unable to hold their own town hall meetings? Is Fox News, the scores or conservative talk radio hosts and all the conservative magazines and internet pundits unable to put out the word? Didn't they kill illegal alien amnesty single handedly? You think they can't get the word out and create a stir if they had a real viable alternative plan?

I do.

But I think they want healthcare to remain the way it is. So they trot out an outline with no real intention of countering with a better idea. In other words, lip service to be able to say after the fact that they tried, but didn't have the "power" to change anything. Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

And why is your Libertarian leader Ron Paul...who supports HR3400...therefore it must be "viable" and "a better mousetrap"....unable to "put out the word" and "create a stir"....and have "the world beat a path to his door"?

So you've changed the direction of your OP from the four page "plan" to HR 3400 now? Is this going to require a score card to keep up with your deflections?