The GOP health care plan is only four (4!) short & easy-to-read pages

[ScreamingEagle]

As you know, HR 3400 isn't what you threw out as the Republican plan. You threw out a 4 page outline which are pie in the sky goals until they hang some meat on the bone. Of course Pelosi will try to bury it. Are Republican senators and representatives unable to hold their own town hall meetings? Is Fox News, the scores or conservative talk radio hosts and all the conservative magazines and internet pundits unable to put out the word? Didn't they kill illegal alien amnesty single handedly? You think they can't get the word out and create a stir if they had a real viable alternative plan?

I do.

But I think they want healthcare to remain the way it is. So they trot out an outline with no real intention of countering with a better idea. In other words, lip service to be able to say after the fact that they tried, but didn't have the "power" to change anything. Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

And why is your Libertarian leader Ron Paul...who supports HR3400...therefore it must be "viable" and "a better mousetrap"....unable to "put out the word" and "create a stir"....and have "the world beat a path to his door"?

So you've changed the direction of your OP from the four page "plan" to HR 3400 now? Is this going to require a score card to keep up with your deflections?

Not at all...you're the one insisting upon "details"....go there if you want some....

 

[kwc57]

And why is your Libertarian leader Ron Paul...who supports HR3400...therefore it must be "viable" and "a better mousetrap"....unable to "put out the word" and "create a stir"....and have "the world beat a path to his door"?

So you've changed the direction of your OP from the four page "plan" to HR 3400 now? Is this going to require a score card to keep up with your deflections?

Not at all...you're the one insisting upon "details"....go there if you want some....

Well gosh, details matter.....and they matter a lot.

HR 3400 and the "plan" you presented are two totally different animals proposed by two totally different Republicans. What is in HR 3400 has nothing to do with your 4 page document.

 

[gcomeau]

Don't be like totally an idiot....the GOP plan has four pages of MANY great ideas you can chew on....you probably haven't even read them...

Oh, I've read it. It's a collection of happy bumper sticker slogans devoid of any substance or concrete policy proposals. It can be summarized as "if you follow our plan, wonderful things will happen that you'll really really like. Hooray!"

It's crap. Because as soon as they start trying to explain how the heck to actually MAKE those things happen it will suddenly start looking not so great. It's all well and good to say, for example "we're going to reward high quality care". But what the hell does that actually mean IN PRACTICE? How do you determine who is and isn't providing "high quality" care? Some kind of BUREAUCRATIC COMMITTEE??? "OMG! Government bureacrats will be telling doctors how to practice medicine!!!!!" And how do you reward it? You going to hand out extra cash to those people your judging criteria likes best? "Where's that money coming from? I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! HIGHER TAXES!!!!!" Or are you going to financially penalize under-performers? "The Republiccans are going to cut health care funding to your hard working doctors! Seniors, they're plotting to destroy your medicare!"

Any of that sound familiar?

If you don't lay out the details you can make any plansound wonderful and happy and filled with candy and rainbows. What the hell do you think the Democratic plan would sound like if all they wrote was their version of a four page summary of what they say it will acheive?

 

[kwc57]

Don't be like totally an idiot....the GOP plan has four pages of MANY great ideas you can chew on....you probably haven't even read them...

Oh, I've read it. It's a collection of happy bumper sticker slogans devoid of any substance or concrete policy proposals. It can be summarized as "if you follow our plan, wonderful things will happen that you'll really really like. Hooray!"

It's crap. Because as soon as they start trying to explain how the heck to actually MAKE those things happen it will suddenly start looking not so great. It's all well and good to say, for example "we're going to reward high quality care". But what the hell does that actually mean IN PRACTICE? How do you determine who is and isn't providing "high quality" care? Some kind of BUREAUCRATIC COMMITTEE??? "OMG! Government bureacrats will be telling doctors how to practice medicine!!!!!" And how do you reward it? You going to hand out extra cash to those people your judging criteria likes best? "Where's that money coming from? I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! HIGHER TAXES!!!!!" Or are you going to financially penalize under-performers? "The Republiccans are going to cut health care funding to your hard working doctors! Seniors, they're plotting to destroy your medicare!"

Any of that sound familiar?

If you don't lay out the details you can make any plansound wonderful and happy and filled with candy and rainbows. What the hell do you think the Democratic plan would sound like if all they wrote was their version of a four page summary of what they say it will acheive?

In other words.....

View attachment 8024

View attachment 8023​

 

[logical4u]

QUOTE]

Can you show me where the protections are in place in any of the dem's bills for the citizens/patients?
I have never known the gov to limit itself once a bill has been passed. If it isn't in the original, it won't be in the final draft.

Sorry, it is up to you to prove your claims. Show me where It will be used to create a national id system, complete with: Number, fingerprints, blood sample, urine sample, dna evidence, organ donor info and bank account info. Look, I'm not in favor of Obama's plan, but I don't see a boogie man around every corner. Methinks you are listening to too many talk heads on the radio making all sorts of fantastic apocalyptic claims.

If every person is in the medical database, there will have to be a way to keep them unique: ID number.
If their medical records are there, they will contain: all the information from routine physicals (samples), medical history (organ info).
If blood samples are taken, there will be DNA evidence from you that will be the property of the US gov.
One of the bills wants bank account info taken, so that patients will have to pay for their gov provided medical care (chances are that will be in the same database as your medical records).
There is also talk of linking the IRS to the same said database (to judge who can pay and who can't).
Now, I haven't heard any "talking heads" bring this up, but if you look down the road and then look at what has happened in other places where gov (or part of gov) had control over medical treatment, terrible things happened. It did not start out that way, the same arguements were made: give us your rights and we will take care of you and your family, trust us. The endings were not beneficial to the people that trusted them or the people that became monsters from having to run a medical system on limited funds.
This is a con from those that would take your rights and eliminate the Constitution: they may be using people that believe in helping, but that will not be the result.
DO NOT TRUST ME, think it out for yourself.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Don't be like totally an idiot....the GOP plan has four pages of MANY great ideas you can chew on....you probably haven't even read them...

Oh, I've read it. It's a collection of happy bumper sticker slogans devoid of any substance or concrete policy proposals. It can be summarized as "if you follow our plan, wonderful things will happen that you'll really really like. Hooray!"

It's crap. Because as soon as they start trying to explain how the heck to actually MAKE those things happen it will suddenly start looking not so great. It's all well and good to say, for example "we're going to reward high quality care". But what the hell does that actually mean IN PRACTICE? How do you determine who is and isn't providing "high quality" care? Some kind of BUREAUCRATIC COMMITTEE??? "OMG! Government bureacrats will be telling doctors how to practice medicine!!!!!" And how do you reward it? You going to hand out extra cash to those people your judging criteria likes best? "Where's that money coming from? I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! HIGHER TAXES!!!!!" Or are you going to financially penalize under-performers? "The Republiccans are going to cut health care funding to your hard working doctors! Seniors, they're plotting to destroy your medicare!"

Any of that sound familiar?

If you don't lay out the details you can make any plansound wonderful and happy and filled with candy and rainbows. What the hell do you think the Democratic plan would sound like if all they wrote was their version of a four page summary of what they say it will acheive?

Why don't you pick one of the individual points actually listed.... and attack that instead of all this hysterical hyperbole?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

give us your rights and we will take care of you and your family, trust us.

yep...that's the Dimwit plan in a nutshell....

 

[Dr.House]

Oh trust me, I'm a very small R republican and a big C Conservative.......well, actually libertarian.

Odd, since the vast majority of libertarians I know and converse with don't spend nearly as much time as you do defending 0bama and his Democratics... It's nice to hate Boooosh and all, but you have to throw in a few anti-Barry stuff now and again... Just sayin'...

I said I wasn't for Obama's plan. I also said that an outline from the other side is not a plan. I can write down a goal to build a rocket ship and vacation on the moon. But once I state the goal, I actually have to come up with a plan to make it happen if I really, really want to do it. My suspicion is that the opposition has no real interest of any kind in healthcare reform other than claiming to and throwing detail-less outlines on the table.

The "other side" floated out an outline of what they would work on should there be interest in them doing so... The minority party has no chance in hell of getting any bill passed, so spending time concocting a 1,000 page counter-plan is, well, counter productive... You float something out there, see who agrees, and hopefully the opposition hears from their constituents and, in a bipartisan spirit, works on the details...

But who we kidding, huh? The "We Won!" party has no desire to work with the R's on this thing and the American taxpayers will end up footing the bill with money we dont fucking have just so Barry Zero can say "Hey, I fixed the Healthcare!" for the next election cycle...

With a plan as bad as the one being rammed down out throats, doing the wrong thing is NOT better than doing nothing... It's like the end of the movie War Games, where even the computer figures out that the only winning option is not to play the game...

But the computer had to play the game to figure it out. You know, instead of trying to play gotcha politics and scoring talk radio points against the opposition, the opposition should be coming up with a better way of doing things and getting the ideas in front of people. If conservatives ever hope to regain lost seats in Congress and retake the Whitehouse, they are going to have to do better than say, "Obama is bad". The Republican party screwed the pooch for 8 solid years. Bozo the clown could have gotten elected after the fiasco they created while in power. for God's sake, the best campaign strategy they could come up with was, "yeah we screwed up, but they will screw up worse, so reelect us so it won't be any worse than it was". The American people said no thanks. Now the strategy seems to be to let Obama and the Democrats screw up for 4 years and then the American people will gladly take us back. Fuck that. Prove that you deserve the job and will do what you say. If you don't believe that healthcare reform is needed, say so and prove why you think it. If you think healthcare reform is needed, come up with a better plan and sell it. People will buy what they believe is a better product. If you build a better car at a resonable price and prove it is better, people will buy it. Saying "buy a Ford because it isn't a Chevy" isn't really the best way to sell you product. Right now, that is the Republican strategy. Vote Republican because we aren't Democrat. BFD. So, I reject your "conservative" idea that there is no point in trying since we have no control.

Sorry, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out a.) a guy swinging a baseball bat aimed right for my head is going to hurt me and b.) we can't afford the shiny new 100,000 dollar sports car on a fry cook's salary... Simplification of the problem, but the issues are the same...

The democratic plan is going to break us - big time - and we can't afford to "try it out and see"... Not in such a volatile economy...

Nope, I remain unconvinced that the democratic plan is the way to go...

 

[gcomeau]

Why don't you pick one of the individual points actually listed.... and attack that instead of all this hysterical hyperbole?

"Rewards high quality care' was one of the individual points actually listed, you clueless wonder.

 

[kwc57]

Odd, since the vast majority of libertarians I know and converse with don't spend nearly as much time as you do defending 0bama and his Democratics... It's nice to hate Boooosh and all, but you have to throw in a few anti-Barry stuff now and again... Just sayin'...


The "other side" floated out an outline of what they would work on should there be interest in them doing so... The minority party has no chance in hell of getting any bill passed, so spending time concocting a 1,000 page counter-plan is, well, counter productive... You float something out there, see who agrees, and hopefully the opposition hears from their constituents and, in a bipartisan spirit, works on the details...

But who we kidding, huh? The "We Won!" party has no desire to work with the R's on this thing and the American taxpayers will end up footing the bill with money we dont fucking have just so Barry Zero can say "Hey, I fixed the Healthcare!" for the next election cycle...

With a plan as bad as the one being rammed down out throats, doing the wrong thing is NOT better than doing nothing... It's like the end of the movie War Games, where even the computer figures out that the only winning option is not to play the game...

But the computer had to play the game to figure it out. You know, instead of trying to play gotcha politics and scoring talk radio points against the opposition, the opposition should be coming up with a better way of doing things and getting the ideas in front of people. If conservatives ever hope to regain lost seats in Congress and retake the Whitehouse, they are going to have to do better than say, "Obama is bad". The Republican party screwed the pooch for 8 solid years. Bozo the clown could have gotten elected after the fiasco they created while in power. for God's sake, the best campaign strategy they could come up with was, "yeah we screwed up, but they will screw up worse, so reelect us so it won't be any worse than it was". The American people said no thanks. Now the strategy seems to be to let Obama and the Democrats screw up for 4 years and then the American people will gladly take us back. Fuck that. Prove that you deserve the job and will do what you say. If you don't believe that healthcare reform is needed, say so and prove why you think it. If you think healthcare reform is needed, come up with a better plan and sell it. People will buy what they believe is a better product. If you build a better car at a resonable price and prove it is better, people will buy it. Saying "buy a Ford because it isn't a Chevy" isn't really the best way to sell you product. Right now, that is the Republican strategy. Vote Republican because we aren't Democrat. BFD. So, I reject your "conservative" idea that there is no point in trying since we have no control.

Sorry, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out a.) a guy swinging a baseball bat aimed right for my head is going to hurt me and b.) we can't afford the shiny new 100,000 dollar sports car on a fry cook's salary... Simplification of the problem, but the issues are the same...

The democratic plan is going to break us - big time - and we can't afford to "try it out and see"... Not in such a volatile economy...

Nope, I remain unconvinced that the democratic plan is the way to go...

Well of course it isn't!!! The question remains of what better alternative can be put on the table.........and at that, conservatives are failing. Which pisses me off as a conservative.

 

[Dr.House]

But the computer had to play the game to figure it out. You know, instead of trying to play gotcha politics and scoring talk radio points against the opposition, the opposition should be coming up with a better way of doing things and getting the ideas in front of people. If conservatives ever hope to regain lost seats in Congress and retake the Whitehouse, they are going to have to do better than say, "Obama is bad". The Republican party screwed the pooch for 8 solid years. Bozo the clown could have gotten elected after the fiasco they created while in power. for God's sake, the best campaign strategy they could come up with was, "yeah we screwed up, but they will screw up worse, so reelect us so it won't be any worse than it was". The American people said no thanks. Now the strategy seems to be to let Obama and the Democrats screw up for 4 years and then the American people will gladly take us back. Fuck that. Prove that you deserve the job and will do what you say. If you don't believe that healthcare reform is needed, say so and prove why you think it. If you think healthcare reform is needed, come up with a better plan and sell it. People will buy what they believe is a better product. If you build a better car at a resonable price and prove it is better, people will buy it. Saying "buy a Ford because it isn't a Chevy" isn't really the best way to sell you product. Right now, that is the Republican strategy. Vote Republican because we aren't Democrat. BFD. So, I reject your "conservative" idea that there is no point in trying since we have no control.

Sorry, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out a.) a guy swinging a baseball bat aimed right for my head is going to hurt me and b.) we can't afford the shiny new 100,000 dollar sports car on a fry cook's salary... Simplification of the problem, but the issues are the same...

The democratic plan is going to break us - big time - and we can't afford to "try it out and see"... Not in such a volatile economy...

Nope, I remain unconvinced that the democratic plan is the way to go...

Well of course it isn't!!! The question remains of what better alternative can be put on the table.........and at that, conservatives are failing. Which pisses me off as a conservative.

To me, the better alternative to the democratic plan IS to do nothing... We can't afford healthcare reform and I would appose any plan by any side that doesn't pay for it with cuts or increases the burden on the taxpayer...

Listen, we know the R's will NOT get ANY alternative agreed upon by the dems who say "We Won!"... This is THEIR fiasco to sink or float with.... Throwing out an outline is just for show, sure, but any detailed planning is a waste of time... I'd rather the R congress critters spend the time talking to their constituents...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why don't you pick one of the individual points actually listed.... and attack that instead of all this hysterical hyperbole?

"Rewards high quality care' was one of the individual points actually listed, you clueless wonder.

So I forgot...no need to be hysterical....Per the republican platform on health care this is what they say about that...
Reward Good Health Care Providers for Delivering Real Results...

Patients deserve access to health care providers they trust who will personalize and coordinate their care to ensure they receive the right treatment with the right health care provider at the right time. Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform. The current cookie-cutter system of reimbursement needs restructuring from the view of the patient, not the accountant or Washington bureaucrat.

www.gop.com/2008Platform/healthcare.htm

 

[Emma]

Why don't you pick one of the individual points actually listed.... and attack that instead of all this hysterical hyperbole?

"Rewards high quality care' was one of the individual points actually listed, you clueless wonder.

So I forgot...no need to be hysterical....Per the republican platform on health care this is what they say about that...
Reward Good Health Care Providers for Delivering Real Results...

Patients deserve access to health care providers they trust who will personalize and coordinate their care to ensure they receive the right treatment with the right health care provider at the right time. Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform. The current cookie-cutter system of reimbursement needs restructuring from the view of the patient, not the accountant or Washington bureaucrat.

www.gop.com/2008Platform/healthcare.htm

And?

What exactly does that mean? What exactly do they propose to put it (whatever "it" is) into effect?

 

[joeyc]

To me, the better alternative to the democratic plan IS to do nothing... We can't afford healthcare reform and I would appose any plan by any side that doesn't pay for it with cuts or increases the burden on the taxpayer...

From a policy standpoint, I'd agree to some extent, but Obama's managed to get the AARPers to turn off The Price Is Right and get up off the sofa, so he better deliver something otherwise he aint getting their vote.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

"Rewards high quality care' was one of the individual points actually listed, you clueless wonder.

So I forgot...no need to be hysterical....Per the republican platform on health care this is what they say about that...
Reward Good Health Care Providers for Delivering Real Results...

Patients deserve access to health care providers they trust who will personalize and coordinate their care to ensure they receive the right treatment with the right health care provider at the right time. Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform. The current cookie-cutter system of reimbursement needs restructuring from the view of the patient, not the accountant or Washington bureaucrat.

www.gop.com/2008Platform/healthcare.htm

And?

What exactly does that mean? What exactly do they propose to put it (whatever "it" is) into effect?

And what?

...what exactly is the "it" you refer to?

In my estimation a patient-centered plan would certainly be a WHOLE lot better than a government bureaucrat-centered health care plan....don't you agree...?

 

[Emma]

So I forgot...no need to be hysterical....Per the republican platform on health care this is what they say about that...
Reward Good Health Care Providers for Delivering Real Results...

And?

What exactly does that mean? What exactly do they propose to put it (whatever "it" is) into effect?

And what?

...what exactly is the "it" you refer to?

In my estimation a patient-centered plan would certainly be a WHOLE lot better than a government bureaucrat-centered health care plan....don't you agree...?

It's a very vague, bs statement. I want to know what they mean by it and how they propose to put it into effect.

BTW: "Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform."

Really? So docs should only be paid when their patients are "well" or "cured"? And not paid for the procedures they perform?

That'll go over well

 

[ScreamingEagle]

And?

What exactly does that mean? What exactly do they propose to put it (whatever "it" is) into effect?

And what?

...what exactly is the "it" you refer to?

In my estimation a patient-centered plan would certainly be a WHOLE lot better than a government bureaucrat-centered health care plan....don't you agree...?

It's a very vague, bs statement. I want to know what they mean by it and how they propose to put it into effect.

BTW: "Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform."

Really? So docs should only be paid when their patients are "well" or "cured"? And not paid for the procedures they perform?

That'll go over well

It seems like that approach would help to keep providers from doing procedures that are not necessary...except by them that is...to build up their bank accounts...

 

[xotoxi]

The GOP health care plan is only four (4!) short & easy-to-read pages ...plus it contains way more common sense than Obama's 1,000+ pages of gobbledegook...

Have you read the Xotoxi Healthcare Plan? It's even shorter.

In fact, here it is in it's entirety.

Healthcare.

We gotta fix that shit, STAT!

 

[Emma]

 

[veritas]

"Rewards high quality care' was one of the individual points actually listed, you clueless wonder.

So I forgot...no need to be hysterical....Per the republican platform on health care this is what they say about that...
Reward Good Health Care Providers for Delivering Real Results...

Patients deserve access to health care providers they trust who will personalize and coordinate their care to ensure they receive the right treatment with the right health care provider at the right time. Providers should be paid for keeping people well, not for the number of tests they run or procedures they perform. The current cookie-cutter system of reimbursement needs restructuring from the view of the patient, not the accountant or Washington bureaucrat.

www.gop.com/2008Platform/healthcare.htm

And?

What exactly does that mean? What exactly do they propose to put it (whatever "it" is) into effect?

Exactly nuthin'