5stringJeff
Senior Member
insein said:BTW, fuck Bill Frist. Worst leadership you could have in a supposedly Conservative party.
Bill Frist is pitiful.
And I owe you rep.
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insein said:BTW, fuck Bill Frist. Worst leadership you could have in a supposedly Conservative party.
liberalogic said:Did our own ancestors not "invade" this country over the course of the last 200 years?
5stringJeff said:If they came here legally and applied to become citizens, then no, they didn't.
5stringJeff said:
Bill Frist is pitiful.
And I owe you rep.
There are a few, but not influential. They need grassroots across the country, perhaps with another party. The Libertarian Party is a joke. We need something, something different.no1tovote4 said:I've spent a long time working to get a Conservative Congress/Executive branch only to be disappointed entirely with the result. What happened to the (small l) libertarians in the Republican Party?
Kathianne said:There are a few, but not influential. They need grassroots across the country, perhaps with another party. The Libertarian Party is a joke. We need something, something different.
Agreed. I'm a good 'worker bee' but not an organizer. Wish there were someone to step up, today. I have no fear that someone will, eventually.no1tovote4 said:No kidding and the "Constitutional Party" is even worse. There is almost nowhere for a Conservative Libertarian to reside and actually get representation.
Hobbit said:So, I got the voting record for the immigration vote earlier today straight from the U.S. Senate web site. link
The following people are traitors to this country and should be thrown in jail for not only endorsing a foreign invasion of this country but attempting to hide it from the citizens of this country.
The following people are the true patriots, willing to stand up fro what is truly right.
The following people are spineless, yellow bellied weasels who are to afraid of their own shadows to actually take a stand on an issue.
If you are represented by anybody in the first or third catagories, write them, e-mail them, kick down their doors, or do whatever you have to do to let them know that this is these are their last terms in office, and that you will make it your personal mission to make sure none of them ever so much as holds a seat on the city water conservation board of a one street town.
Having trouble finding yours? At the link above, you can find them listed by state, as well.
Mariner said:Calling people traitors because they voted in a democratic process is bizarre.
I understand the gut feeling many people have that it's wrong to give "free pass" to people who entered the country illegally, but the situation is a little bit more complicated than that:
1. Perhaps the real traitors would be the American business owners who hire all these illegal aliens, and those of us who buy their products? That would include every voter whose landscaping, nannying, salad-picking, nursing home attending, etc. etc. needs are handled by illegal aliens. Without a demand, there would be no supply.
2. KarlMarx's argument that this is something like the Roman Empire letting in barbarians is silly. These people are hardworking and willing to take enormous risks to work for money. Sounds like good future Americans to me.
3. There is no practical alternative. It would be inordinately expensive and require vast police action to locate and deport 11+ million people, and then keep them out. One non-partisan researcher commented that building a wall actually helps keep them in--many would prefer to work here briefly then return home, but the harder it is to cross the border, the more they get stuck here.
4. Look back just a generation or two. The Chinese were going to destroy our civilization. Then the "inferior" southern Europeans (Greeks, Italians) were going to do it. It's the same old arguments, over and over, and they all represent fear of diversity and newness--and they all deny that humans are not native to North America, so we're all visitors here.
5. Some of the Republicans voting in favor of immigrants do so for very good reasons. Martinez of Florida was an illegal himself, and now he's a U.S. Congressperson. Pete Domenici's mother was arrested in his home, at family dinnertime--she was here illegally from Italy. Several other Republicans find themselves in the same boat.
If you really want to end illegal immigration, the fastest way would likely be by clamping down on employers, requiring proof of citizenship to get a job in this country. Then we'd be up a creek in terms of lack of labor. There was a terrific piece on Sunday, I think, in the New York Times, by a conservative columnist quoting an elderly Republican woman in a nursing home, thanking God for the illegals who care for her.
Mariner.
no1tovote4 said:No kidding and the "Constitutional Party" is even worse. There is almost nowhere for a Conservative Libertarian to reside and actually get representation.
Mariner said:Calling people traitors because they voted in a democratic process is bizarre.
I understand the gut feeling many people have that it's wrong to give "free pass" to people who entered the country illegally, but the situation is a little bit more complicated than that:
1. Perhaps the real traitors would be the American business owners who hire all these illegal aliens, and those of us who buy their products? That would include every voter whose landscaping, nannying, salad-picking, nursing home attending, etc. etc. needs are handled by illegal aliens. Without a demand, there would be no supply.
2. KarlMarx's argument that this is something like the Roman Empire letting in barbarians is silly. These people are hardworking and willing to take enormous risks to work for money. Sounds like good future Americans to me.
3. There is no practical alternative. It would be inordinately expensive and require vast police action to locate and deport 11+ million people, and then keep them out. One non-partisan researcher commented that building a wall actually helps keep them in--many would prefer to work here briefly then return home, but the harder it is to cross the border, the more they get stuck here.
4. Look back just a generation or two. The Chinese were going to destroy our civilization. Then the "inferior" southern Europeans (Greeks, Italians) were going to do it. It's the same old arguments, over and over, and they all represent fear of diversity and newness--and they all deny that humans are not native to North America, so we're all visitors here.
5. Some of the Republicans voting in favor of immigrants do so for very good reasons. Martinez of Florida was an illegal himself, and now he's a U.S. Congressperson. Pete Domenici's mother was arrested in his home, at family dinnertime--she was here illegally from Italy. Several other Republicans find themselves in the same boat.
If you really want to end illegal immigration, the fastest way would likely be by clamping down on employers, requiring proof of citizenship to get a job in this country. Then we'd be up a creek in terms of lack of labor. There was a terrific piece on Sunday, I think, in the New York Times, by a conservative columnist quoting an elderly Republican woman in a nursing home, thanking God for the illegals who care for her.
Mariner.
Hobbit said:They also don't assimilate.
Redhots said:Thats because we (corporations and their bought and paid for political allies) never wanted them to.
If they did and became Americans then they would have to be paid a minimum wage and be entitled to various worker's rights which doesn't work too well with some business models.
If I was a savvy marketing guru I would advise my employer to start slapping "Made by Americans" stickers on all their products and then reap the windfall... provided they could make that claim with a straight face that is.