The Finding Out What's In The Bill Thread

[Ravi]

for we know that ~50% of the citizenry PAYS NO MOTHERFUCKING INCOME TAX

Link?

 

[Ravi]

* Small businesses with no more than 25 employees and average annual wages of less than $50,000 will receive a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the employer's contribution if the employer pays 50 percent or more of health insurance premiums. Full credit is given to those with less than 10 employees who make on average less than $25,000.

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

If you need to keep your children on your health plan until they're 26 then you have some underachieving children. Ever heard of S-Chip?

Or overachieving students.

 

[DiamondDave]

for we know that ~50% of the citizenry PAYS NO MOTHERFUCKING INCOME TAX

Link?

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million

Stats there show 41%

Now.... again.... why is it OK for some to pay for the personal responsibilities of others.. in essence paying MORE for the same service??

You want that I get charged $10 for a gallon of milk while Joe Lazyass down the street pays $0.25 for the same milk?

 

[DiamondDave]

The Income Tax System is Broken - CBS News

Statistic shows 43% there...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm

47% there

Satisfied enough to stop denying that we have a LARGE number of people not even paying into the system?

 

[Ravi]

Interesting.

It looks like earned income tax credits and the various tax breaks are to blame the most.

That should be addressed.

 

[manu1959]

Wow.

There are a lot of electricians and PLUMBERS who fit into this category.

and suppliers....and architects...and engineers....and real estate folks....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

If you need to keep your children on your health plan until they're 26 then you have some underachieving children. Ever heard of S-Chip?

Or overachieving students.

If you define a person at 26 who's still needing mommy and daddy to cover his or her ass on their health plan as "overacheivers" then you're plain fucking stupid.

 

[Ravi]

If you need to keep your children on your health plan until they're 26 then you have some underachieving children. Ever heard of S-Chip?

Or overachieving students.

If you define a person at 26 who's still needing mommy and daddy to cover his or her ass on their health plan as "overacheivers" then you're plain fucking stupid.

Why do you hate med students?

 

[DiamondDave]

Interesting.

It looks like earned income tax credits and the various tax breaks are to blame the most.

That should be addressed.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

 

[Immanuel]

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

You know, I could live with a public "option". If it were truly an option.

My problem with the one that was written early on in this mess, was that it was written in such a way as to destroy the Health Insurance Industry. It was written with the provision that health insurance companies could not write new policies. I'm sorry, but that would have killed the industry and forced millions of people out of work.

If a business cannot take on new business how is it supposed to survive? At the government teat?

Immie

I don't remember that being in the bill.

Regardless, I have no interest in putting private insurers out of business. A little competition surely wouldn't hurt.

It was in the bill. The bill stated that as of year 1 day 1 of the signing of the bill insurers would not be able to write new policies. Not writing new policies means that they cannot take on new business and that would have been THE death nail for the industry.

I don't think you or anyone else except maybe Congress wanted such a thing, but that was what the bill said.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

Interesting.

It looks like earned income tax credits and the various tax breaks are to blame the most.

That should be addressed.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

Right...so it is all the credits. Only those making under roughly 8,000 if single or 16,000 if married aren't having tax deducted from their pay. I imagine mostly because they get write offs for their kids. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about that.

 

[Ravi]

You know, I could live with a public "option". If it were truly an option.

My problem with the one that was written early on in this mess, was that it was written in such a way as to destroy the Health Insurance Industry. It was written with the provision that health insurance companies could not write new policies. I'm sorry, but that would have killed the industry and forced millions of people out of work.

If a business cannot take on new business how is it supposed to survive? At the government teat?

Immie

I don't remember that being in the bill.

Regardless, I have no interest in putting private insurers out of business. A little competition surely wouldn't hurt.

It was in the bill. The bill stated that as of year 1 day 1 of the signing of the bill insurers would not be able to write new policies. Not writing new policies means that they cannot take on new business and that would have been THE death nail for the industry.

I don't think you or anyone else except maybe Congress wanted such a thing, but that was what the bill said.

Immie

No offense, but I don't believe that. Sounds like a rightwing talking point. I'd have to see the language in the bill before I'd swallow that one.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't remember that being in the bill.

Regardless, I have no interest in putting private insurers out of business. A little competition surely wouldn't hurt.

It was in the bill. The bill stated that as of year 1 day 1 of the signing of the bill insurers would not be able to write new policies. Not writing new policies means that they cannot take on new business and that would have been THE death nail for the industry.

I don't think you or anyone else except maybe Congress wanted such a thing, but that was what the bill said.

Immie

No offense, but I don't believe that. Sounds like a rightwing talking point. I'd have to see the language in the bill before I'd swallow that one.

I saw it and I couldn't believe it, but it was in the bill. I read it right off the bill itself. One of the very early bills that it came from. There is a thread by Pilgrim Plymco from last year that linked to the bill itself.

I had heard that the public option prevented insurance companies from writing new policy but could not believe it. So, I went to the link and searched on the word option and sure enough it was there.

The thread is probably almost a year old now and I don't know that I can find it easily.

If that is what the next brand of public option says, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be opposed to it again.

BTW: no offense taken.

Immie

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

* Small businesses with no more than 25 employees and average annual wages of less than $50,000 will receive a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the employer's contribution if the employer pays 50 percent or more of health insurance premiums. Full credit is given to those with less than 10 employees who make on average less than $25,000.

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

How about this? you like that?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...110449-health-care-reform-cost-estimates.html

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I don't remember that being in the bill.

Regardless, I have no interest in putting private insurers out of business. A little competition surely wouldn't hurt.

It was in the bill. The bill stated that as of year 1 day 1 of the signing of the bill insurers would not be able to write new policies. Not writing new policies means that they cannot take on new business and that would have been THE death nail for the industry.

I don't think you or anyone else except maybe Congress wanted such a thing, but that was what the bill said.

Immie

No offense, but I don't believe that. Sounds like a rightwing talking point. I'd have to see the language in the bill before I'd swallow that one.

Aint you been paying attention to what they have been saying?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW4IKM9hzS4]YouTube - Baby steps to single payer[/ame]

 

[Ravi]

* Small businesses with no more than 25 employees and average annual wages of less than $50,000 will receive a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the employer's contribution if the employer pays 50 percent or more of health insurance premiums. Full credit is given to those with less than 10 employees who make on average less than $25,000.

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

How about this? you like that?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...110449-health-care-reform-cost-estimates.html

Sorry, I tend to mistrust things written by people with an agenda.

 

[manu1959]

I especially like this.

I also like the fact that children can stay on their parents policies until age 26.

Honestly, other that penalizing people for not purchasing insurance I can't find much to dislike...except the lack of a public option.

How about this? you like that?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...110449-health-care-reform-cost-estimates.html

Sorry, I tend to mistrust things written by people with an agenda.

doesn't congress have an agenda.....

 

[Ravi]

How about this? you like that?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...110449-health-care-reform-cost-estimates.html

Sorry, I tend to mistrust things written by people with an agenda.

doesn't congress have an agenda.....

Yep. Who said I trusted them?

 

[Immanuel]

Here is the language straight from the horses mouth:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-

(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.

(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-

(1) GRACE PERIOD-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.

(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:

(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (PL 111-5).

(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.

(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.

In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this division

(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.

(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-

(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.

(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.

(3) STAND-ALONE DENTAL AND VISION COVERAGE PERMITTED- Nothing in this division shall be construed--

(A) to prevent the offering of a stand-alone plans that offer coverage of excepted benefits described in section 2791(c)(2)(A) of the Public Health Service Act (relating to limited scope dental or vision benefits)for individuals and families from a State licensed dental and vision carrier; or

(B) as applying requirements for a qualified health benefits plan to such stand-alone plans that is offered and priced separately from a qualified health benefits plan.

Read The Bill: H.R. 3200 - GovTrack.us

That provision preventing private insurers from writing new policies makes them nothing more than puppets of the U.S. Government! Meaning there is no option except the government option.

And unfortunately, I was mistaken, it was not only tied into the language of the public option it was tied into to entire bill. Did that language become part of the bill that was signed today?

Immie

 

[Care4all]

for we know that ~50% of the citizenry PAYS NO MOTHERFUCKING INCOME TAX

Link?

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million

Stats there show 41%

Now.... again.... why is it OK for some to pay for the personal responsibilities of others.. in essence paying MORE for the same service??

You want that I get charged $10 for a gallon of milk while Joe Lazyass down the street pays $0.25 for the same milk?

whatever tax deductions that working americans take like the dependent deductions or deductions given for oneself and spouse in which these americans use to eliminate their income tax burdens, the wealthier still paying taxes TOOK ALL of those deductions also, eliminating their tax burden on their first 20-$30k as well....

those not paying income tax have gotten nothing that the wealthy did not also take advantage of.... it is a fair system for the most part, imo.