The € EURO thread

The SPD is not happy with this, and neither is the German voter.

The SDU is going to crater in the next election like the Tories under John Major. Unless they stop this, the SDU may not make the 5% cut in order to get into the Bundestag.
 
The SPD is not happy with this, and neither is the German voter.

The SDU is going to crater in the next election like the Tories under John Major. Unless they stop this, the SDU may not make the 5% cut in order to get into the Bundestag.

merkel is at the head of that column of Grenadiers, .the old Potsdam Guard of old, the back benchers wanted to stay in the barracks but alas......she won't survive, but they bet they will...we'll see.
 
Just as we discovered that our currency is only as strong as the weakest subprime loans we back. Europe is discovering that their currency is only as strong as their weakest country. This puts more nails in the coffin of any plans for a One World Currency. I just laugh at the IMF's SDRs. :lol:

EFSF = Euro TARP
 
"entrenched inflation"...or, 'we're all the Weimer Republic now', the chorus to be had in 2020.





Why Europe Dithers
German voters don't want to bail out French banks and the French government can't afford to.

* OCTOBER 21, 2011, 7:11 P.M. ET

'All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure." That morbid thought, voiced by a British politician named Enoch Powell in the 1970s, is now playing out in the careers of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy. Neither leader has an incentive to sacrifice what have become vital and divergent interests to produce a credible bailout plan for Europe. To simplify, German voters don't want to bail out French banks, and the French government can't afford to bail out French banks, when and if the long-awaited Greek default is allowed to happen.

Thus Mr. Sarkozy's re-election hopes are going down the drain, but not as quickly as they would if he acceded to the Merkel plan to let each government rescue its own banks.

Ms. Merkel's hopes for a third term are being eroded in regional election after regional election, though not as quickly as they would if she agreed to put German taxpayers on the hook for France's troubled banking sector.

There is another savior in the wings, of course, the European Central Bank. But the ECB has no incentive to betray in advance its willingness to get France and Germany off the hook by printing money to keep Europe's heavily indebted governments afloat. Yet all know this is the outcome politicians are stalling for. This is the outcome markets are relying on, and why they haven't crashed.

All are waiting for some market ruction hairy enough that the central bank will cast aside every political and legal restraint in order to save the euro.

In doing so, of course, the bank will be acting far above its pay grade, and far outside the law, to make momentous decisions for all of Europe. Which countries will be saved via the bank's willingness to print unlimited euros and buy unlimited assets to keep them out of default?

Which countries will be allowed to default and (if they so choose) drop out of the euro altogether?

These choices the bank understands perfectly well it would be making in lieu of politicians who are unwilling to make such decisions, though not unwilling that such decisions be made. In their non-rescue of Greece last July, Europe's leaders proposed a 21% "voluntary" haircut to Greek debt held by banks, and now scuttlebutt has raised the politically acceptable haircut to 60%.

Though the central bank has been adamantly against a Greek default (because it owns a lot of Greek debt), this means it will surely read its mandate as permission to let Greece default.

The central bank has already stepped up, to wide applause, to keep Spain and Italy afloat when demand for their debt began to evaporate. Italy and Spain are "core" countries that the bank understands the politicians view as too big to fail. And France will likely get a temporary pass from the markets to run up its national debt in order to recapitalize its banks because, obviously, if the ECB won't let Italy and Spain sink, it won't let France sink.

That leaves Portugal and Ireland. Let's just guess that the ECB, aware of how far beyond the pale it has wandered, will act conservatively and prop them up too.

And then the crisis will be over? Not by a long shot.

more at-
Jenkins: Why Europe Dithers - WSJ.com
 
We have been through sovereign debt crises before. Remember the whole mess in the early 80s about the South American Sovereign debt? It passed without a real blip.

The voters in France and Germany are going to hold the governments who plowed them into this mess accountable. We will see a whole new generation of politicians soon. Politicians who will get us into new messes. But not the same messes
 
Interesting article from Germany on the current crisis.

In October 2009, Marko Mršnik's analysts at rating agency Standard & Poor's computed that Greece's debt would increase to 125 percent of economic output in 2010. On the same day, it became more expensive to hedge Greek bonds against default. The default insurance instruments, known in market jargon as credit default swaps (CDS), were an indicator of how bad things stood for Greece. It was now costing $189,000 a year to hedge a $10-million Greek government bond against default. For major investors, it was a signal to get out of Greece.

A few people had also become nervous at the headquarters of the Pacific Investment Company (PIMCO) in Newport Beach, California, about an hour's drive south of Los Angeles.
PIMCO is by far the world's largest investor in government bonds. The company lends governments money by buying their bonds. When PIMCO stops buying a country's bonds, it's a clear sign that the country is on the verge of crisis and possibly even bankruptcy.

PIMCO controls more than $1.3 trillion (€1.05 trillion) on behalf of its customers. It is an absurd number, even in these times of superlatives, times of bailout funds and banks being supported with billions upon billions in taxpayer money. Though far from a household word, PIMCO has four times the German national budget to invest.

That's why almost all governments maintain close ties to PIMCO. They send their finance ministers, the heads of their central banks and sometimes even their national leaders to see CEO Mohamed El-Erian and convince him to buy their government bonds.

In the last few weeks of 2009, PIMCO sold all of its Greek bonds. El-Erian says the company wanted to get out before everyone else noticed that the numbers weren't adding up. The company never relies on outside assessments. Instead, it employs hordes of analysts, some of whom used to work at the International Monetary Fund, where El-Erian began his career.

The analysts spend all of their time digging through large quantities of data and the financial statements of nations, re-calculating, preparing projections and feeding numbers into computers. When they don't like what they see, PIMCO gets out.

When Greece was accepted into the euro zone, it was one more reason for PIMCO to buy Greek bonds. El-Erian says the sentiment at PIMCO was that if the Greeks were being granted membership in such an elite club, then Athens would follow the rules -- or the government would be severely sanctioned if it didn't. But that didn't happen. Instead, political concessions were made and the rules were ignored. That, El-Erian argues, is what brought the cancer into the euro zone.

So why didn't the financial markets penalize Greece earlier? Why was the same yardstick applied to Greek government bonds as to German bonds, until only a few years ago? Why did the markets continue to buy the country's bonds?

The Crash of Greek Bonds

On April 27, 2010, a country's debt was downgraded to junk status for the first time in the history of the young currency. Standard & Poor's downgraded Greece's bond rating by three notches, to BB+, putting it at the same level as Azerbaijan and Egypt, and just ahead of countries like Ecuador, El Salvador and Zimbabwe.

Mršnik wrote that Greece's government debt had to be "restructured" -- a fancy word for bankruptcy. Restructuring involves a debt haircut, so that owners of Greek bonds might only get 30 percent of their money back, that is, lenders are only repaid a fraction of the money they lent. The markets view a downgrade as the kiss of death. At this point, anyone who was still holding Greek bonds in his portfolio was crazy -- or a charitable donor.

But the market is neither crazy nor charitable. As soon as the downgrade was announced, Greek bonds were thrown onto the market, causing their prices to plunge. If the Greek government had introduced two-year bonds into the market at that point, it would have had to promise buyers a 13-percent interest rate, up from only 6.3 percent a few days earlier. The rate for 10-year bonds climbed to above 10 percent.

This came as a shock to many European banks. After the Lehman bankruptcy, they had invested heavily in the supposedly safer government bonds, with small yields that suggested security. But now it wasn't only Greek bonds that were seen as risky; confidence was also dwindling in Portugal, Ireland, Spain and even Italy.
Fear in Europe's Financial Capitals

Fear began to spread in places like Frankfurt and London. European banks had invested more than €700 billion in government bonds from the five crisis-stricken countries. And Greek banks alone were holding €50 billion in Greek government bonds. When the government bond rating was downgraded, so were the ratings of Greek banks, as part of a chain reaction that would not stop at Greece's borders.
 
We have been through sovereign debt crises before. Remember the whole mess in the early 80s about the South American Sovereign debt? It passed without a real blip.

The voters in France and Germany are going to hold the governments who plowed them into this mess accountable. We will see a whole new generation of politicians soon. Politicians who will get us into new messes. But not the same messes

yes we have, however, they had the assets to expend, room to either grow and deflate or just deflate. Now?

I have an analogy- They have tied themselves like mountain climbers all together in the Euro...2 members have slipped and other members take up the slack and when the bigger member's of the rope line slide ala spain and italy*shrugs*...they are barely holding on now....and you betcha there a great deal we don't know yet either. I bet its half again as worse as what they let on.
 
Interesting article from Germany on the current crisis.

In October 2009, Marko Mršnik's analysts at rating agency Standard & Poor's computed that Greece's debt would increase to 125 percent of economic output in 2010. On the same day, it became more expensive to hedge Greek bonds against default. The default insurance instruments, known in market jargon as credit default swaps (CDS), were an indicator of how bad things stood for Greece. It was now costing $189,000 a year to hedge a $10-million Greek government bond against default. For major investors, it was a signal to get out of Greece.

A few people had also become nervous at the headquarters of the Pacific Investment Company (PIMCO) in Newport Beach, California, about an hour's drive south of Los Angeles.
PIMCO is by far the world's largest investor in government bonds. The company lends governments money by buying their bonds. When PIMCO stops buying a country's bonds, it's a clear sign that the country is on the verge of crisis and possibly even bankruptcy.

PIMCO controls more than $1.3 trillion (€1.05 trillion) on behalf of its customers. It is an absurd number, even in these times of superlatives, times of bailout funds and banks being supported with billions upon billions in taxpayer money. Though far from a household word, PIMCO has four times the German national budget to invest.

That's why almost all governments maintain close ties to PIMCO. They send their finance ministers, the heads of their central banks and sometimes even their national leaders to see CEO Mohamed El-Erian and convince him to buy their government bonds.

In the last few weeks of 2009, PIMCO sold all of its Greek bonds. El-Erian says the company wanted to get out before everyone else noticed that the numbers weren't adding up. The company never relies on outside assessments. Instead, it employs hordes of analysts, some of whom used to work at the International Monetary Fund, where El-Erian began his career.

The analysts spend all of their time digging through large quantities of data and the financial statements of nations, re-calculating, preparing projections and feeding numbers into computers. When they don't like what they see, PIMCO gets out.

When Greece was accepted into the euro zone, it was one more reason for PIMCO to buy Greek bonds. El-Erian says the sentiment at PIMCO was that if the Greeks were being granted membership in such an elite club, then Athens would follow the rules -- or the government would be severely sanctioned if it didn't. But that didn't happen. Instead, political concessions were made and the rules were ignored. That, El-Erian argues, is what brought the cancer into the euro zone.

So why didn't the financial markets penalize Greece earlier? Why was the same yardstick applied to Greek government bonds as to German bonds, until only a few years ago? Why did the markets continue to buy the country's bonds?

The Crash of Greek Bonds

On April 27, 2010, a country's debt was downgraded to junk status for the first time in the history of the young currency. Standard & Poor's downgraded Greece's bond rating by three notches, to BB+, putting it at the same level as Azerbaijan and Egypt, and just ahead of countries like Ecuador, El Salvador and Zimbabwe.

Mršnik wrote that Greece's government debt had to be "restructured" -- a fancy word for bankruptcy. Restructuring involves a debt haircut, so that owners of Greek bonds might only get 30 percent of their money back, that is, lenders are only repaid a fraction of the money they lent. The markets view a downgrade as the kiss of death. At this point, anyone who was still holding Greek bonds in his portfolio was crazy -- or a charitable donor.

But the market is neither crazy nor charitable. As soon as the downgrade was announced, Greek bonds were thrown onto the market, causing their prices to plunge. If the Greek government had introduced two-year bonds into the market at that point, it would have had to promise buyers a 13-percent interest rate, up from only 6.3 percent a few days earlier. The rate for 10-year bonds climbed to above 10 percent.

This came as a shock to many European banks. After the Lehman bankruptcy, they had invested heavily in the supposedly safer government bonds, with small yields that suggested security. But now it wasn't only Greek bonds that were seen as risky; confidence was also dwindling in Portugal, Ireland, Spain and even Italy.
Fear in Europe's Financial Capitals

Fear began to spread in places like Frankfurt and London. European banks had invested more than €700 billion in government bonds from the five crisis-stricken countries. And Greek banks alone were holding €50 billion in Greek government bonds. When the government bond rating was downgraded, so were the ratings of Greek banks, as part of a chain reaction that would not stop at Greece's borders.

the money shot-

When Greece was accepted into the euro zone, it was one more reason for PIMCO to buy Greek bonds. El-Erian says the sentiment at PIMCO was that if the Greeks were being granted membership in such an elite club, then Athens would follow the rules -- or the government would be severely sanctioned if it didn't. But that didn't happen. Instead, political concessions were made and the rules were ignored. That, El-Erian argues, is what brought the cancer into the euro zone.

;)
 
hey BM, this paragraph that you cut off due to copyright etc.....to bad, because this the payoff pitch.I read in the WSJ a few weeks ago they would create another 'fund' to which they would collect pledges etc. from all of the EU nations and whomever they can convince ( see: con) and issue bonds based on that, a fund full of promises......its going to unravel. It has to, how many times can you fool/con the same suckers, oops, I mean folks? ;)


Government bonds also serve as collateral when banks borrow money from the European Central Bank. The bonds are a key link in monetary transactions, and when their value becomes questionable, the supply of money to economies begins to falter.

good article btw thxx.
 
Angela Merkel is contemplating a healthier Diet.....
Burki-Merkel.jpg
 
well, as anyone other than those in the higher environs of the myriad EU Commissions' head up the ass club knew, the day has come.

Italy's bonds have moved across a pretty significant psychological and material boundary, + yields 7%.

Berlusconi and all the jazz not withstanding, Italy was always Lehman.....I think I have some lira from a trip way back in a box around here, I'll make a point of digging it out later;)
 
1 yr Italys yielding 8.4% this am.

I hear anything above 6.2% is unsustainable. Gold has been on a tear.

Europe is discovering that their currency is only as strong as their weakest / most corrupt country hiding off budget debt. This puts more nails in the coffin of any plans for a One World Currency. I just laugh at the World Bank / IMF's SDRs.

In a few years people around the globe will realize that only Gold can be used as a global reserve money.
 
doing some reading, and I found it beyond belief that Italy has not had one year with over 2% growth since......2000.

I have been there several times, twice in the last 5 years, they have an underground economy that rivals anyone's, any former eastern bloc country or Greece.
 
France may be getting a downgrade this weekend.

I heard that too, now it appears they are waling that back. look italy is going to bring it all down, france? thats, I don't even know how describe that cataclysm.

Italy has the worlds 3rd largest debt market & 9th largest economy. If they go down they will take down the global financial system. Your ATM card won't work for a long time.
 

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