The essence of collectivism is force. The essence of libertarianism is choice.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by xsited1, May 27, 2010.

  1. xsited1
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    xsited1 Agent P

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    With so many hyperventilating over Rand Paul's recent Private Property/Civil Rights comments, I thought I'd ask everyone what they think about what's in the subject line. I got it from this story:

    Rand Paul's Principled Stumble | Robert A. Levy | Cato Institute: Commentary

    Then I found this:

    In it, the author claims: "Collectivism isn’t about force. Collectivism is about cooperation – choice constrained by social contract for the net benefit of society."

    Discuss.
     
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  2. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    Choice constrained is force. Taking away my choices before I get a chance to make them is no different than telling me what to do.
     
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  3. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Collectivism puts the power of the government construct over the rights of the individual. It is about power and control. The only "cooperative" aspect to it is "cooperate OR ELSE". It's Orwellian for coercion.
     
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  4. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Queue Bfgrn to come in and tell you that laws against murder restrain your choice too, as if that's somehow a valid point in context. :rofl:
     
  5. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Putting the rights of "society" over the rights of individuals essentially means that one group of people is going to get screwed for the benefit of another. Society is simply a collection of individuals, and if you consistently protect individual rights then everybody in that society is better off.
     
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  6. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    What's the difference between collectivism and communism?
     
  7. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Communism is a specific form of collectivism, but there are other flavors as well such as fascism and socialism (and The BORG) for example. The key distinction is the subservience of the individual in relationship to the collective.
     
  8. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Seems to work pretty well for ants, bees and some other insects.

    Of course that's scarcely an endorsement, unless perhaps you're rdean or geauxtohell.
     
  9. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Indeed. It's illuminating to consider those who advocate a Hive Mind existence.
     
  10. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    Morons who bitch about limiting liberty for the common good should move to Somalia and leave the civilized world the fuck alone with their idiotic bullshit.

    Anarchy doesn't work and people like having laws, educational systems, and a government capable of enforcing such laws as mandatory transparency in economic systems, food and work environment safety regulations, and laws outlawing rape and murder. You want total liberty? Go to Somalia see just how great the libertarian pipedream really is.
     
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