The Dis-information age

[Oldandtired]

You know...I rememberr Megyn Kelly on Fox News ask Bill BUrton...

"please explain to us how it is possible for Senator Obama to say he did not personally know Bill Ayers when there is evidence that he spent time in Mr. AYers house and actually launched his career in Mr. Ayers House.

Bill Burton responded with "I can answer that question all day long but it is not what the American People want to hear about. They want to hear about the economy"

So Megyn said "actually, it is exactly what my viewers want to hear about. They want to know the truth so they can make an educated decision on the honesty of senator Obama.

And Bill Burton said " Like I said, I can keep on answering that question, but it is not what they want to hear"

ANd She said...."But you have not answered the question"

And he responded with..."Yes I did, you just did not like the answer".

And the segment ended abruptly...

If other news media asked that question...it WOULD have ultimately been asnwered.

Didnt you wnat to know why he had 3 different answers? Didnt you want to know why he lied? DIdnt you want to know if, in fact, he had some pretty seedy relationships?

All other campaigns such was an issue...why not this one?

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie, I'll agree that many are willing participants. But most people aren't going to take as much time and effort as you do. And I don't think they HAD to in the past. I think the flood of propaganda that is drowning out non-partisan information is what is making it so much harder.

I remember when I first started reading about this newfangled thing called the "information highway" and warnings that it would be the communications tool of the future, but it would also invite lies and threats, every social misfit, and all the other good, bad and ugly brought on by people who could suddenly hide their identity. Unfortunately, we are now exposed to too much information, but the Internet has become a necessary evil.

 

[Oldandtired]

Maggie, I'll agree that many are willing participants. But most people aren't going to take as much time and effort as you do. And I don't think they HAD to in the past. I think the flood of propaganda that is drowning out non-partisan information is what is making it so much harder.

I remember when I first started reading about this newfangled thing called the "information highway" and warnings that it would be the communications tool of the future, but it would also invite lies and threats, every social misfit, and all the other good, bad and ugly brought on by people who could suddenly hide their identity. Unfortunately, we are now exposed to too much information, but the Internet has become a necessary evil.

It takes common sense to discerne fact from fiction.

 

[MaggieMae]

The day Obama offered his third explanation for his relationship with Ayers..... and all three were conflicting with each other.,,,,and the media said "OK, that explains it"....was the day, in my eyes, the media was not to be trusted to be what they were designed to be...informative....

I will never forget Meredith on the NBC morning show saying:

"We at NBC will no longer report on the Ayers/Obama relationship as it is not what the American People need to hear about. There are more pressing issues like the economy that we will dedicate our time to".....and in the VERY NEXT BREATH she said..."and coming up after the break, more details on Madonna's pending divorce..."

Both quotes were paraphrased....but you get the irony I am sure.

Of course it could be that repeating the Ayers "story" line for line, word for word, day in and day out was getting a little tedius. Ya think? There reaches a point when there are no further developments to a story--any story--at which time it is ignorant to keep playing it again like a broken record.

You see? That is exactly what I mean. A REAL media would have been asking questions...not simply repeating the story.

WHat happened to
"Mr. Obama, you gavce us three conflicting asnwers...why is that

Or

Mr. Obama,last week you said you didnt kmow him but this week it was discovered that you knew him well. Please explain

But you see...it was attitudes like yours that allowed the press to simply "report the story" yet not research into why the discrepencies.

What further questions? The media delved into the Annenberg Foundation and the affiliation between Obama and Ayers; they investigated Ayers' influence in getting Obama established in local/state politics; they THOROUGHLY investigated Ayer's possible "terrorist" activities since the 60s, of which none were found. They looked into his marriage, and his wife's activities as well. Did you have specific questions that you thought might be asked that wouldn't have brought laugh-out-loud responses? Like "Are you and Barack Obama planning to overthrow the U.S. government?"

 

[nodoginnafight]

I never saw a lack of questions from hyper-partisan non-journalists on both sides in regards to the Ayers - Obama relationship. You obviously received enough information to form the opinion that Obama lied about it. Maybe you don't feel enough of the questions included your opinion in the question itself - but if you received enough information to be able to form that opinion on your own, then I would argue that you were not short-changed.

Assuming a role as an advocate of an opinion is NOT journalism. It is part of the problem I have been reffering to.

You seem to perceive a problem in that not enough journalists assume your opinion is fact and report it that way.

 

[MaggieMae]

You know...I rememberr Megyn Kelly on Fox News ask Bill BUrton...

"please explain to us how it is possible for Senator Obama to say he did not personally know Bill Ayers when there is evidence that he spent time in Mr. AYers house and actually launched his career in Mr. Ayers House.

Bill Burton responded with "I can answer that question all day long but it is not what the American People want to hear about. They want to hear about the economy"

So Megyn said "actually, it is exactly what my viewers want to hear about. They want to know the truth so they can make an educated decision on the honesty of senator Obama.

And Bill Burton said " Like I said, I can keep on answering that question, but it is not what they want to hear"

ANd She said...."But you have not answered the question"

And he responded with..."Yes I did, you just did not like the answer".

And the segment ended abruptly...

If other news media asked that question...it WOULD have ultimately been asnwered.

Didnt you wnat to know why he had 3 different answers? Didnt you want to know why he lied? DIdnt you want to know if, in fact, he had some pretty seedy relationships?

All other campaigns such was an issue...why not this one?

What "3 different answers"??? Obama did not "pal around with Bill Ayers," which as I recall were the operating words du jour. They worked together for a brief period of time, and Ayers hosted a gathering to introduce him to Chicago politicians. I have dozens of "friends" that I don't "pal around with." I have even more acquaintances that might pop in and out of my life at any time, but whom I don't consider "friends." The fact that FOX wanted to go after this story like a dog with a bone is a given. And I see some of you are still at it. Any luck?

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie, I'll agree that many are willing participants. But most people aren't going to take as much time and effort as you do. And I don't think they HAD to in the past. I think the flood of propaganda that is drowning out non-partisan information is what is making it so much harder.

I remember when I first started reading about this newfangled thing called the "information highway" and warnings that it would be the communications tool of the future, but it would also invite lies and threats, every social misfit, and all the other good, bad and ugly brought on by people who could suddenly hide their identity. Unfortunately, we are now exposed to too much information, but the Internet has become a necessary evil.

It takes common sense to discerne fact from fiction.

Indeed.

 

[manifold]

The explosion of hyper-partisan internet and cable TV "news" outlets has not (IMHO) produced a more informed electorate. On the contrary, I think it has allowed people to cloister themselves into little knots of like-minded individuals who will only trust those sources that tend to confirm their own preconceived notions.

A lot more "information", but a lot less balance and a lot less accountability for the "information" presented. And it appears to me that the result is a less informed electorate.

Well said.

And also don't forget that this helps to significantly perpetuate the myth that the two "sides" are vastly different, when in reality the similarities wholly dwarf the alleged differences.

 

[Oldandtired]

You know...I rememberr Megyn Kelly on Fox News ask Bill BUrton...

"please explain to us how it is possible for Senator Obama to say he did not personally know Bill Ayers when there is evidence that he spent time in Mr. AYers house and actually launched his career in Mr. Ayers House.

Bill Burton responded with "I can answer that question all day long but it is not what the American People want to hear about. They want to hear about the economy"

So Megyn said "actually, it is exactly what my viewers want to hear about. They want to know the truth so they can make an educated decision on the honesty of senator Obama.

And Bill Burton said " Like I said, I can keep on answering that question, but it is not what they want to hear"

ANd She said...."But you have not answered the question"

And he responded with..."Yes I did, you just did not like the answer".

And the segment ended abruptly...

If other news media asked that question...it WOULD have ultimately been asnwered.

Didnt you wnat to know why he had 3 different answers? Didnt you want to know why he lied? DIdnt you want to know if, in fact, he had some pretty seedy relationships?

All other campaigns such was an issue...why not this one?

What "3 different answers"??? Obama did not "pal around with Bill Ayers," which as I recall were the operating words du jour. They worked together for a brief period of time, and Ayers hosted a gathering to introduce him to Chicago politicians. I have dozens of "friends" that I don't "pal around with." I have even more acquaintances that might pop in and out of my life at any time, but whom I don't consider "friends." The fact that FOX wanted to go after this story like a dog with a bone is a given. And I see some of you are still at it. Any luck?

No Maggie. You are incorreect with your recollection. Fox News never said he palled around with Ayers. Hannity said it, but Hannity is not the news...he is a coomentator with a commentator show.

The news however, siad they were concerned about 3 answers that Obama gave.

First he did not personally know the man.

Then it was discovered that he DID know him.

So then he said, yes I knew him but I never met him.

Then it was revealed that he DID know him and actually spent time with him.

So then he said..."yes I spent time with him, but I thought he was reformed"

So all FOX NEWS....the NEWS...wanted to know was why three different conflicting answewrs.

Why did you not want to know why he said he never knew him, then knew him but never met him, then met him and spent time with him but thought he was reformed?

You were duped maggie...as many were....by the other media citing things Hannity siad...and deflecting from the REAL issue.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And also don't forget that this helps to significantly perpetuate the myth that the two "sides" are vastly different, when in reality the similarities wholly dwarf the alleged differences.

THAT is a terrific point.

 

[nodoginnafight]

By the way - the claim that Obama lied about his association with Ayers has been widely debunked. Maybe an addiction to partisan outlets doesn't provide enough complete and accurate "information" to make informed decisions.

 

[Oldandtired]

And also don't forget that this helps to significantly perpetuate the myth that the two "sides" are vastly different, when in reality the similarities wholly dwarf the alleged differences.

THAT is a terrific point.

As it pertains to the two sides being "republican AND democrat", I agree.

As it pertains to the REAL two sides....Liberal and conservative...we are worlds APART.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And also don't forget that this helps to significantly perpetuate the myth that the two "sides" are vastly different, when in reality the similarities wholly dwarf the alleged differences.

THAT is a terrific point.

As it pertains to the two sides being "republican AND democrat", I agree.

As it pertains to the REAL two sides....Liberal and conservative...we are worlds APART.

Not really - we all still have a whole lot more in common than we have differences. The fact that some folks try to inflate the differences for political gain doesn't change the fact that we are much more alike than we are different.

 

[Big Black Dog]

We can blame media all we want, but I still maintain that people are dumbing themselves down. Every day of my life, I run across some news item where I ask myself "Is that true?" and then I launch a search to find out. I don't sit here and believe the first thing out of someone's mouth or what some op-ed wants me to believe. Yet, according to the latest NBC poll on the health care issue, the results are positively shocking that so few people are actually looking for the truth but would rather simply believe the blatant lies that have been concocted.

NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan
NBC poll: Misperceptions abound on president's health overhaul initiative
Tues., Aug 18, 2009
[excerpt]

Damaging misperceptions

One of the reasons why it has become tougher is due to misperceptions about the president’s plans for reform.

Majorities in the poll believe the plans would give health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants; would lead to a government takeover of the health system; and would use taxpayer dollars to pay for women to have abortions — all claims that nonpartisan fact-checkers say are untrue about the legislation that has emerged so far from Congress.

Forty-five percent think the reform proposals would allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care for the elderly.

That also is untrue: The provision in the House legislation that critics have seized on — raising the specter of “death panels” or euthanasia — would simply allow Medicare to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, if the patient wishes.

URL: NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan - White House- msnbc.com

Well, there you go. If you believe anything NBC says you are "mis-informed".

 

[nodoginnafight]

Unfortunately, I can see this quickly degenerating into "MY hyper-partisan new source is better than YOUR hyper-partisan newsource."

That may be an interesting line of debate for you guys, but not for me. So you guys go ahead and take my thread and turn it into what you all love to turn EVERY OTHER thread into - a hyper-partisan shouting match.

Just do it without me.

 

[Oldandtired]

THAT is a terrific point.

As it pertains to the two sides being "republican AND democrat", I agree.

As it pertains to the REAL two sides....Liberal and conservative...we are worlds APART.

Not really - we all still have a whole lot more in common than we have differences. The fact that some folks try to inflate the differences for political gain doesn't change the fact that we are much more alike than we are different.

I believe my life and my desiotny should be completely in my hands. My failures are ALL my fault...my successes are all to my credit.

I lost much in the market.....It was my decision to invest...it was my fault.

I had lots of money in companies with salaries that were extraordinarily high. I had access to this information, but I opted not to review it. My fault...not the fault of those with the salaries.

My credit card fees are rediculous...it was my choice to NOT read the fine print...my fault.

I did not opt for the "teaser rate" refinance...I opted for a fixed rate at 4.75%.....it was my gain to not take the gamble.

No...I am sorry....Liberals accept the premise that it is OK to blame others...conservatives believe in personal responsibility...and these two stances can apply to just about every move we make.

SO I do not see how liberals and conservatives are so similar.

 

[Oldandtired]

We can blame media all we want, but I still maintain that people are dumbing themselves down. Every day of my life, I run across some news item where I ask myself "Is that true?" and then I launch a search to find out. I don't sit here and believe the first thing out of someone's mouth or what some op-ed wants me to believe. Yet, according to the latest NBC poll on the health care issue, the results are positively shocking that so few people are actually looking for the truth but would rather simply believe the blatant lies that have been concocted.

NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan
NBC poll: Misperceptions abound on president's health overhaul initiative
Tues., Aug 18, 2009
[excerpt]

Damaging misperceptions

One of the reasons why it has become tougher is due to misperceptions about the president’s plans for reform.

Majorities in the poll believe the plans would give health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants; would lead to a government takeover of the health system; and would use taxpayer dollars to pay for women to have abortions — all claims that nonpartisan fact-checkers say are untrue about the legislation that has emerged so far from Congress.

Forty-five percent think the reform proposals would allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care for the elderly.

That also is untrue: The provision in the House legislation that critics have seized on — raising the specter of “death panels” or euthanasia — would simply allow Medicare to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, if the patient wishes.

URL: NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan - White House- msnbc.com

Well, there you go. If you believe anything NBC says you are "mis-informed".

Well there you go....saying the absurd to contradict the truth.

NBC does not mis-inform./...they simply inform you with only certain facts and allow you to make a judgement call with certain facts as they lead you to believe they are all of the facts.

"That man shot a man in the back as he was running in the other direction"......easy to assume the shooter is 100% in the wrong.

But the complete story is "that man shot the other man in the back as he was running in the other direction, firing shots at the others man's wife"

Hmmm....no one lied...but two completely different judgemnent calls made.

 

[nodoginnafight]

No...I am sorry....Liberals accept the premise that it is OK to blame others...conservatives believe in personal responsibility...and these two stances can apply to just about every move we make.

You have been mis-informed about "what liberals believe." Did a liberal tell you that they believe it's always OK to blame others or did a conservative tell you that is what liberals believe?

 

[Oldandtired]

No...I am sorry....Liberals accept the premise that it is OK to blame others...conservatives believe in personal responsibility...and these two stances can apply to just about every move we make.

You have been mis-informed about "what liberals believe." Did a liberal tell you that they believe it's always OK to blame others or did a conservative tell you that is what liberals believe?

No one told me anything of the sort and I do not believe that. I said that they will ACCEPT the premise that it is someone elses fault if such is declared.

For example....is it not true that it is more of a liberal premise that those that accepted and got burnt by the NINJA loans were victims of the banks and brokers?

I know one thing for sure...not one conservative I know sees it that way...and every liberal I know is furious at the banks and the brokers....and consider those people who were burnt as victims.

 

[MaggieMae]

You know...I rememberr Megyn Kelly on Fox News ask Bill BUrton...

"please explain to us how it is possible for Senator Obama to say he did not personally know Bill Ayers when there is evidence that he spent time in Mr. AYers house and actually launched his career in Mr. Ayers House.

Bill Burton responded with "I can answer that question all day long but it is not what the American People want to hear about. They want to hear about the economy"

So Megyn said "actually, it is exactly what my viewers want to hear about. They want to know the truth so they can make an educated decision on the honesty of senator Obama.

And Bill Burton said " Like I said, I can keep on answering that question, but it is not what they want to hear"

ANd She said...."But you have not answered the question"

And he responded with..."Yes I did, you just did not like the answer".

And the segment ended abruptly...

If other news media asked that question...it WOULD have ultimately been asnwered.

Didnt you wnat to know why he had 3 different answers? Didnt you want to know why he lied? DIdnt you want to know if, in fact, he had some pretty seedy relationships?

All other campaigns such was an issue...why not this one?

What "3 different answers"??? Obama did not "pal around with Bill Ayers," which as I recall were the operating words du jour. They worked together for a brief period of time, and Ayers hosted a gathering to introduce him to Chicago politicians. I have dozens of "friends" that I don't "pal around with." I have even more acquaintances that might pop in and out of my life at any time, but whom I don't consider "friends." The fact that FOX wanted to go after this story like a dog with a bone is a given. And I see some of you are still at it. Any luck?

No Maggie. You are incorreect with your recollection. Fox News never said he palled around with Ayers. Hannity said it, but Hannity is not the news...he is a coomentator with a commentator show.

The news however, siad they were concerned about 3 answers that Obama gave.

First he did not personally know the man.

Then it was discovered that he DID know him.

So then he said, yes I knew him but I never met him.

Then it was revealed that he DID know him and actually spent time with him.

So then he said..."yes I spent time with him, but I thought he was reformed"

So all FOX NEWS....the NEWS...wanted to know was why three different conflicting answewrs.

Why did you not want to know why he said he never knew him, then knew him but never met him, then met him and spent time with him but thought he was reformed?

You were duped maggie...as many were....by the other media citing things Hannity siad...and deflecting from the REAL issue.

I have quickly searched for the actual quotes that were all different, and couldn't find anything. It's what I do. If I'm supposed to take your recollection of something that occurred on FOXNEWS, forget it. I will ask you to consider this, however. If there was such a blatant discrepancy as you point out, then why didn't McCain use Obama's three different versions when he began his twelfth-hour attack campaign where he invoked Bill Ayers all the time? Wouldn't that have sealed it for McCain? Instead, he just looked like sour grapes.