The difference between capitalism and socialism in a nutshell

[Iceweasel]

I agree - unregulated capitalism is - not anarchy per se - but a ruthless survival of the fittest that devalues human life.

The problem however IS capitalism - it's capitalism taken to it's extreme. That's why regulation is needed.

Where I see the need for socialism is that there is nothing in capitalism that will provide for those in need unless fickle human nature decides it.

I do agree though, that capitalism has proven to be the only economic system that is sustainable over the long term. Socialist systems stagnate.

Capitalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
cap·i·tal·ism
noun \ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm, ˈkap-tə-, British also kə-ˈpi-tə-\
: a way of organizing an economy so that the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) are owned by individual people and companies rather than by the government


That's it. It doesn't mean unregulated or oppressive. I haven't heard ANYONE suggest getting rid of all laws governing commerce. We need them for stability. Those monopolies couldn't exist today with the infrastructure, communication and transportation we have. The only monopolies that could exist today would be by way of socialism, communism or fascism. That's one of the reasons why we conservatives bitch about cronyism and big government so much.

 

[Iceweasel]

The VA healthre is ALSO socialistic. That is the reason veterans are treated like shit.

There is no reason Veterans can not use their VA ID to get healthcare at non-VA facilities.

Having worked in a VA hospital for 3.5 years I agree with that. The employees come first in any civil service.

 

[Bfgrn]

The recent posts of Kosh the parrot...

See the far left shows they want communism/socialism..

The far left proves they do not understand such things..

Far left propaganda based on religious dogma.

See the far left posts bunk and expects others to prove them wrong!

They want you to prove a negative.

Even more proof that the far left does not understand what they post, but expect others to prove them wrong!

The mentality of a two year old..

Sorry you can NOT prove a negative.

And the far left propaganda drones on...

Proof that this one is not connected in anyway to reality..

Oh look more far left propaganda not connected to reality..

The far left programming responding to certain keywords, how cute..

More proof how dangerous the far left religion is..

Yes I am sure that is what is in the far left programming..

And the far left propaganda drones on...

The far left would much rather see the world burn than admit they are wrong!

 

[kaz]

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

First of all you changed the standard. Liberals love to do that. I'm OK with that, just pointing it out.

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around that taxes should be flat? That there should be no death tax? That you should negotiate your own benefits with your employer? That you should be able to have anyone you want make living will decisions? You can't wrap your pigeon sized brain around that with the massive number of children being born outside government marriage that paternity rights and responsibilities should be based on genetics not paper? People should be able to negotiate their own marriage contract rather than government telling them what it will be? Government marriage is not a solution, it's a cop out.

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

 

[Kosh]

The recent posts of Kosh the parrot...

See the far left shows they want communism/socialism..

The far left proves they do not understand such things..

Far left propaganda based on religious dogma.

See the far left posts bunk and expects others to prove them wrong!

They want you to prove a negative.

Even more proof that the far left does not understand what they post, but expect others to prove them wrong!

The mentality of a two year old..

Sorry you can NOT prove a negative.

And the far left propaganda drones on...

Proof that this one is not connected in anyway to reality..

Oh look more far left propaganda not connected to reality..

The far left programming responding to certain keywords, how cute..

More proof how dangerous the far left religion is..

Yes I am sure that is what is in the far left programming..

And the far left propaganda drones on...

The far left would much rather see the world burn than admit they are wrong!

And the far left drone proves my comments!

 

[kaz]

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for their dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

The racist/bigoted far left drones and ironic comments!

Yes, half of black children are married outside government wedlock, Bfgrn again shows his racist not giving a shit about them stripes.

 

[kaz]

And here's the part that's astonishing: the economy does better under regulated capitalism. The recessions are shorter and less severe, the expansions are longer, there is greater wealth for everyone. The environment does better under regulated capitalism. We have clearer air, cleaner water, greater prosperity, longer life spans, and more wealth. And of course a more thriving middle class.

LOL, didn't follow the mortgage meltdown, did you, Sparky? Clinton blackmailed banks into funding sub-prime loans threatening to start endless government investigations and subpoena the crap out of their asses until they did, then funded it with endless free money. W said wow, that's a bad idea, then did the same thing. The mortgage industry then like a drowning man grabbed the rest of the economy and took it down with it.

The US lost our auto industry, steel companies and other manufacturing base because government made it prohibitively expensive to produce products here, government is driving companies to offshore operations to escape regulations and double taxation and government is not only preventing US companies from repatriating foreign earnings by taking over a third of it if they bring it home but is now driving US companies to move not only their manufacturing but their headquarters offshore. Can you say Burger King, eh?

And you think that is working? LOL, the Kool-aid does leave the brain in a fog. If you sit and stop drinking it, your head should clear up in a few years of paying attention.

 

[kaz]

You're dealing with people that don't give a fuck about outcome. They only care about process

From the guy who advocates an ideology that is illogical and never works. Project much?

 

[kaz]

You mean Libertarians do not understand why we need legal protections to protect the interests of spouses and children?

Yes, libertarians are anarchists. That cracks me up every time, I see why you keep going to that one. Wow, funny stuff. Thank you for the belly laugh my friend. I mean you've gone to that well hundreds of times by now and it's as funny as the first time. Nicely played, nicely played.

 

[kaz]

The only reason you guys want to get rid of "legal" marriage is because they are letting the fags do it now.

Libertarians are in favor of government controlling marriage unless it's open to gays. Is that supposed to make sense? That is so illogical I couldn't be offended if I tried. You have all the reason of a teenage girl PMSing.

 

[kaz]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

In every country and every economy the government is the referee. There is no such thing as unregulated free market capitalism. Corporations want the government to stay out of it so they can rig the game in their favor.

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class Thom Hartmann

A question out of curiosity. Are you not able to read or do you just not like doing it?

I didn't say no government, Sparky. I actually advocated government being involved. Let's try 2/3, can you re-read it and grasp it this time?

 

[kaz]

I agree they aren't neutral. They side with the corporations and the rich over us

The irony in this being you're a complete liar ... and you're right. You are talking to a couple of libertarians, we want government to not help corporations and the rich, we want them to help no one.

And yet even though you're right, you're lying your freaking ass off. You advocate more government. You think government helps the rich and corporations, and you want more, more more. You are lying. And you're a terrible liar. Government helps the rich, give me government! I want more baby! They are helping the rich, give me more!

Seriously, read your own crap before you click "post," dumbass.

 

[Bfgrn]

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

First of all you changed the standard. Liberals love to do that. I'm OK with that, just pointing it out.

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around that taxes should be flat? That there should be no death tax? That you should negotiate your own benefits with your employer? That you should be able to have anyone you want make living will decisions? You can't wrap your pigeon sized brain around that with the massive number of children being born outside government marriage that paternity rights and responsibilities should be based on genetics not paper? People should be able to negotiate their own marriage contract rather than government telling them what it will be? Government marriage is not a solution, it's a cop out.

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

I didn't change any standards. Marriage affords couples numerous rights and protections, many of them LEGAL. You are calling for anarchy...

Who gets the house? The one with the gun.

 

[kaz]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

In every country and every economy the government is the referee. There is no such thing as unregulated free market capitalism. Corporations want the government to stay out of it so they can rig the game in their favor.

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class Thom Hartmann

BULLSHIT.

REFEREE DENOTES NEUTRALITY.


BUT HERE IN THE US IN ORDER TO BE A REFERREE YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. TO VOTE FOR YOU

WHEN YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY FOR POWER THEN ONLY THE MAJORITY HAS RIGHTS.

.

The rich, the top 1%, are doing amazingly well. Are they the majority? Dumb ass!

We are doing well, but since the top 1% pay 40% of taxes and the top 5% pay 60%, which means percentiles 2-5 are paying 20% of all taxes, they seem to be doing OK. And the tpo 50% pay 100% of taxes. Wow, that means half taxpayers are paying all the taxes. Seems life maybe isn't so bad. And the other half? They pay nothing and get welfare, food stamps, aid for children, ... Hmmm...maybe it's not just the rich who are milking government...

 

[Bfgrn]

Marriage Rights and Benefits
Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits

• Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
• Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

Estate Planning Benefits

• Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
• Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
• Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
• Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.

Government Benefits

• Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
• Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
• Receiving public assistance benefits.

Employment Benefits

• Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
• Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
• Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
• Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.

Medical Benefits

• Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
• Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

Death Benefits

• Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
• Making burial or other final arrangements.

Family Benefits

• Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
• Applying for joint foster care rights.
• Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
• Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

Housing Benefits

• Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
• Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

Consumer Benefits

• Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
• Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
• Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

• Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
• Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
• Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
• Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
• Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
• Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

 

[kaz]

The US is also a "Mixed Economy".

kaz
Why no link to the source?

Yes, the US is a mixed economy. There is no Constitutional authority for the Feds to do that, they did it in clear violation of the 10th amendment. Not sure what your point is.

And what link are you referring to?

Where do the Police Department and the Fire department fall in your opinion? Both are purely socialist programs, so how exactly do you think Capitalism could replace those Socialist programs?

No, they aren't. Socialism is government owning industry, it's not government providing common services that are not economically viable. That's why I'm a small government libertarian, not an anarchist. And your point is completely unsupported as being a rebuttal to the post you responded to. I never said nor meant that all government is socialism.

As to your question though, here you go:

What is a small government libertarian US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[sealybobo]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

In every country and every economy the government is the referee. There is no such thing as unregulated free market capitalism. Corporations want the government to stay out of it so they can rig the game in their favor.

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class Thom Hartmann

BULLSHIT.

REFEREE DENOTES NEUTRALITY.


BUT HERE IN THE US IN ORDER TO BE A REFERREE YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. TO VOTE FOR YOU

WHEN YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY FOR POWER THEN ONLY THE MAJORITY HAS RIGHTS.

.

The rich, the top 1%, are doing amazingly well. Are they the majority? Dumb ass!

We are doing well, but since the top 1% pay 40% of taxes and the top 5% pay 60%, which means percentiles 2-5 are paying 20% of all taxes, they seem to be doing OK. And the tpo 50% pay 100% of taxes. Wow, that means half taxpayers are paying all the taxes. Seems life maybe isn't so bad. And the other half? They pay nothing and get welfare, food stamps, aid for children, ... Hmmm...maybe it's not just the rich who are milking government...

Would you rather be in the top 50% or the bottom so you can avoid paying taxes? Exactly.

I pay huge amounts of taxes. Know what that means? I make huge amounts of money. I'm not complaining but my greedy conservative co workers can't stop crying.

Do you think anyone in the bottom 50% wouldn't trade you places in a heartbeat?

 

[kaz]

But guess who is paying the "income taxes" - not the rich , the middle class is. Because Americans have been conditioned to confuse patriotism with stupidity..

Since the top 1% earn 20% of income and pay 40% of income taxes and the top 5% pay 60% and the top 20% pay 94% of all income taxes, that would seem to be unsupported by the facts.

 

[kaz]

I didn't change any standards. Marriage affords couples numerous rights and protections, many of them LEGAL. You are calling for anarchy...

Who gets the house? The one with the gun.

Yes, you said government marriage being restricted from gays was discriminatory and you're against discrimination. That was your standard then. I pointed out all government marriage is discriminatory and I am against all government marriage. You are for discrimination that people who get married have benefits not shared by other people. I want everyone to be treated the same by government.

You came back with you love the perks other people don't get, baby. Not only a different standard from your first one, but contradictory to that you are against discrimination.

 

[kaz]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

In every country and every economy the government is the referee. There is no such thing as unregulated free market capitalism. Corporations want the government to stay out of it so they can rig the game in their favor.

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class Thom Hartmann

BULLSHIT.

REFEREE DENOTES NEUTRALITY.


BUT HERE IN THE US IN ORDER TO BE A REFERREE YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. TO VOTE FOR YOU

WHEN YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY FOR POWER THEN ONLY THE MAJORITY HAS RIGHTS.

.

The rich, the top 1%, are doing amazingly well. Are they the majority? Dumb ass!

We are doing well, but since the top 1% pay 40% of taxes and the top 5% pay 60%, which means percentiles 2-5 are paying 20% of all taxes, they seem to be doing OK. And the tpo 50% pay 100% of taxes. Wow, that means half taxpayers are paying all the taxes. Seems life maybe isn't so bad. And the other half? They pay nothing and get welfare, food stamps, aid for children, ... Hmmm...maybe it's not just the rich who are milking government...

Would you rather be in the top 50% or the bottom so you can avoid paying taxes? Exactly.

I pay huge amounts of taxes. Know what that means? I make huge amounts of money. I'm not complaining but my greedy conservative co workers can't stop crying.

Do you think anyone in the bottom 50% wouldn't trade you places in a heartbeat?

Non-sequitur