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For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this
Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).
An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.
Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.
Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.
In every country and every economy the government is the referee. There is no such thing as unregulated free market capitalism. Corporations want the government to stay out of it so they can rig the game in their favor.
Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class Thom Hartmann
BULLSHIT.
REFEREE DENOTES NEUTRALITY.
BUT HERE IN THE US IN ORDER TO BE A REFERREE YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. TO VOTE FOR YOU
WHEN YOU DEPEND ON THE MAJORITY FOR POWER THEN ONLY THE MAJORITY HAS RIGHTS.
.
The rich, the top 1%, are doing amazingly well. Are they the majority? Dumb ass!
The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
Yes, we provide for their medical needs for their service included in their pay. A part of the pay is monetary and a part is "benefits."The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
That is true.
But some of its activities are socialistic, ie, health care which is not part of it mission.
.
Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal
.
What a dumbass. The military supplies a service idiot. That is their product.The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
Capitalists aren't anarchists, quit reciting Marxist bullshit. Capitalists want their children to grow up breathing clean air and drinking clean water. As far as the purity of outcome and process stuff, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.I've not bashed capitalism. I've lauded it. Its efficiency, its ability to match supply of a good or service with the demand for it, its push toward innovation. I've simly recognized that unchecked, it comes with some significant negative consequences as well: instability, concentrations of private power, and massive environmental damage.
Regulated capitalism, in my personal opinion, is the best economic system we've created to date. It provides all the advantages of capitalism (efficiency, innovation) with less of the costs (instability, environmental damage, concentrations of private power). Its the system I advocate, enjoy using for my personal benefit, and suggest we continue using.
And I'm lauded many conservative values. I think their emphasis on personal gain shows a solid understanding of what motivates people. I think that they are right in that too much assistance from the government (or anyone) can mute such motivation. I respect their emphasis on family values, sharing many of them. I respect their emphasis on hard work, and I share it. I respect their recognition of the value of consequence, as I agree it is a most able teacher. I'm an enormous fan of entrepreneurship, and believe that it is the single greatest tool we can use to combat poverty. Even more so than education.
Where I disagree with many conservatives is in their insistence that their values must be purely and universally applied. I think they have their place. But I think there are many instances where they don't work as well. Where a 'pure' implementation of their philosophies can be more harmful than good. I'm more concerned with the utility and quality of outcome rather than the purity of process. So if pure capitalism doesn't produce good results, I'm more than happy to regulate it to get better results.
And no, I don't believe that any means are justified by the ends. I think the ends and means must both be taken into account.
What a dumbass. The military supplies a service idiot. That is their product.The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
Capitalists aren't anarchists, quit reciting Marxist bullshit. Capitalists want their children to grow up breathing clean air and drinking clean water. As far as the purity of outcome and process stuff, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.I've not bashed capitalism. I've lauded it. Its efficiency, its ability to match supply of a good or service with the demand for it, its push toward innovation. I've simly recognized that unchecked, it comes with some significant negative consequences as well: instability, concentrations of private power, and massive environmental damage.
Regulated capitalism, in my personal opinion, is the best economic system we've created to date. It provides all the advantages of capitalism (efficiency, innovation) with less of the costs (instability, environmental damage, concentrations of private power). Its the system I advocate, enjoy using for my personal benefit, and suggest we continue using.
And I'm lauded many conservative values. I think their emphasis on personal gain shows a solid understanding of what motivates people. I think that they are right in that too much assistance from the government (or anyone) can mute such motivation. I respect their emphasis on family values, sharing many of them. I respect their emphasis on hard work, and I share it. I respect their recognition of the value of consequence, as I agree it is a most able teacher. I'm an enormous fan of entrepreneurship, and believe that it is the single greatest tool we can use to combat poverty. Even more so than education.
Where I disagree with many conservatives is in their insistence that their values must be purely and universally applied. I think they have their place. But I think there are many instances where they don't work as well. Where a 'pure' implementation of their philosophies can be more harmful than good. I'm more concerned with the utility and quality of outcome rather than the purity of process. So if pure capitalism doesn't produce good results, I'm more than happy to regulate it to get better results.
And no, I don't believe that any means are justified by the ends. I think the ends and means must both be taken into account.
Of course Romney wanted his children and theirs to have clean water and clean air. It's the children of the 47% he disdains as scofflaws and lazy he may not consider as worth the effort to keep their water clean and the air in the inner city clean. Note: Romney called to decline one more run while seated on a chair lift in the clean mountain air of Utah.
Today? What do you call all the capitalist, right wing bashing on your end? If you oppose capitalism then what system are you in favor of? Government run economies is fascism, socialism, communism. The problem is that for some reason the left doesn't want to own up to it.Likewise, if you're not a lassie faire capitalist, then you must be a communist. Or a socialist. Or a fascist. As the only possible goal you could have is the most extreme possible. It never occurs to them that you may just want regulated capitalism, or some environmental protections, or some checks to private power.
And its that inability to perceive anything but the polar extremes (if you're not with us, you're against us!) that result in the type of reaction we've seen today.
And the far left propaganda drones on...Today? What do you call all the capitalist, right wing bashing on your end? If you oppose capitalism then what system are you in favor of? Government run economies is fascism, socialism, communism. The problem is that for some reason the left doesn't want to own up to it.Likewise, if you're not a lassie faire capitalist, then you must be a communist. Or a socialist. Or a fascist. As the only possible goal you could have is the most extreme possible. It never occurs to them that you may just want regulated capitalism, or some environmental protections, or some checks to private power.
And its that inability to perceive anything but the polar extremes (if you're not with us, you're against us!) that result in the type of reaction we've seen today.
We love capitalism, we just don't want to join your group...
In my opinion - a blend of the two is the best because each tends to assume that humane nature is better than it really is.
I don't believe there is any getting away from that reality.
socialism took root in places where there was never even the faintest hint of Free Market Capitalism and it has become more popular than it deserves to be.
I disagree - look at the so-called Gilded Age in America. That was the height of unfettered, unregulated capitalism and it was certainly free market capitalism. Not only was it a period of huge economic opportunity and wealth for some, it was a period of grinding poverty, abuse, and desperation for many, which made socialism and communism and easy sell.
In any case, socialism, or a form of it (social democracy seems most likely) will be the next great experiment for this Country.
And it will fail. It always has, it always will.
I'm not sure I see that. America was founded on individualism and free enterprise. It's culture is distinctly different from Europe. I can see some forms of socialism, such as health care (and I support it) making inroads as a matter of practical necessity. I can not see any large-scale socialist institutions developing. It's already quite clear that socialism as an economic model, doesn't work well and state owned industries don't perform as well as privately owned industries and socialist systems don't tend to inspire entrepeneurship which I think is a very American ideal.
But at least, maybe we can avoid the cataclysmic Wars socialism caused in the 20th Century.
Yes..... National Socialism WAS socialism. You may not think so, professorial eggheads may deny it (because they don't want the word 'socialism' attached to it) but you know what....?
The people that invented it thought it was socialism and that's what counts. What you, or anybody else, thinks of it is irrelevant..... THEY thought it was socialism.
Watch the greatest propaganda film ever made (Triumph of the will) if you don't believe me)
Well,I disagree again - National Socialism, as per Nazi's was not really socialist, it was anti-socialist/anti-comunist and more fascist in my opinion. Anyone can call themselves anything - after all, NK is the "Democratic" People's Republic of Korea.
I think there are merits to socialism that can be incorporated into a capitalist economy.
But people will continue to delude themselves as to the nature of what socialism is.... It's human nature. One of the more onerous aspects of human nature -- To deny reality in favor of what you want.
Socialism is/was the most murderous form of government/economy ever devised by Man.
Period.
end rant
Human nature makes a mockery of many well thought out systems. Socialism, Capitalism, Communism...they look good in theory, and on paper, but people refuse to behave the way they are supposed to. That's why I think taking the best from each makes sense.
The Gilded Age brought about a groundswell that brought us as close to socialism as America has ever been. Franklin D. Roosevelt saved capitalism.
How FDR Saved Capitalism Hoover Institution
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
In my opinion - a blend of the two is the best because each tends to assume that humane nature is better than it really is.
I don't believe there is any getting away from that reality.
socialism took root in places where there was never even the faintest hint of Free Market Capitalism and it has become more popular than it deserves to be.
I disagree - look at the so-called Gilded Age in America. That was the height of unfettered, unregulated capitalism and it was certainly free market capitalism. Not only was it a period of huge economic opportunity and wealth for some, it was a period of grinding poverty, abuse, and desperation for many, which made socialism and communism and easy sell.
In any case, socialism, or a form of it (social democracy seems most likely) will be the next great experiment for this Country.
And it will fail. It always has, it always will.
I'm not sure I see that. America was founded on individualism and free enterprise. It's culture is distinctly different from Europe. I can see some forms of socialism, such as health care (and I support it) making inroads as a matter of practical necessity. I can not see any large-scale socialist institutions developing. It's already quite clear that socialism as an economic model, doesn't work well and state owned industries don't perform as well as privately owned industries and socialist systems don't tend to inspire entrepeneurship which I think is a very American ideal.
But at least, maybe we can avoid the cataclysmic Wars socialism caused in the 20th Century.
Yes..... National Socialism WAS socialism. You may not think so, professorial eggheads may deny it (because they don't want the word 'socialism' attached to it) but you know what....?
The people that invented it thought it was socialism and that's what counts. What you, or anybody else, thinks of it is irrelevant..... THEY thought it was socialism.
Watch the greatest propaganda film ever made (Triumph of the will) if you don't believe me)
Well,
I think there are merits to socialism that can be incorporated into a capitalist economy.
But people will continue to delude themselves as to the nature of what socialism is.... It's human nature. One of the more onerous aspects of human nature -- To deny reality in favor of what you want.
Socialism is/was the most murderous form of government/economy ever devised by Man.
Period.
end rant
Human nature makes a mockery of many well thought out systems. Socialism, Capitalism, Communism...they look good in theory, and on paper, but people refuse to behave the way they are supposed to. That's why I think taking the best from each makes sense.
The Gilded Age brought about a groundswell that brought us as close to socialism as America has ever been. Franklin D. Roosevelt saved capitalism.
How FDR Saved Capitalism Hoover Institution
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
I don't believe there is any getting away from that reality.
socialism took root in places where there was never even the faintest hint of Free Market Capitalism and it has become more popular than it deserves to be.
I disagree - look at the so-called Gilded Age in America. That was the height of unfettered, unregulated capitalism and it was certainly free market capitalism. Not only was it a period of huge economic opportunity and wealth for some, it was a period of grinding poverty, abuse, and desperation for many, which made socialism and communism and easy sell.
In any case, socialism, or a form of it (social democracy seems most likely) will be the next great experiment for this Country.
And it will fail. It always has, it always will.
I'm not sure I see that. America was founded on individualism and free enterprise. It's culture is distinctly different from Europe. I can see some forms of socialism, such as health care (and I support it) making inroads as a matter of practical necessity. I can not see any large-scale socialist institutions developing. It's already quite clear that socialism as an economic model, doesn't work well and state owned industries don't perform as well as privately owned industries and socialist systems don't tend to inspire entrepeneurship which I think is a very American ideal.
But at least, maybe we can avoid the cataclysmic Wars socialism caused in the 20th Century.
Yes..... National Socialism WAS socialism. You may not think so, professorial eggheads may deny it (because they don't want the word 'socialism' attached to it) but you know what....?
The people that invented it thought it was socialism and that's what counts. What you, or anybody else, thinks of it is irrelevant..... THEY thought it was socialism.
Watch the greatest propaganda film ever made (Triumph of the will) if you don't believe me)
Well,
I think there are merits to socialism that can be incorporated into a capitalist economy.
But people will continue to delude themselves as to the nature of what socialism is.... It's human nature. One of the more onerous aspects of human nature -- To deny reality in favor of what you want.
Socialism is/was the most murderous form of government/economy ever devised by Man.
Period.
end rant
Human nature makes a mockery of many well thought out systems. Socialism, Capitalism, Communism...they look good in theory, and on paper, but people refuse to behave the way they are supposed to. That's why I think taking the best from each makes sense.
The Gilded Age brought about a groundswell that brought us as close to socialism as America has ever been. Franklin D. Roosevelt saved capitalism.
How FDR Saved Capitalism Hoover Institution
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
Yes and this proves exactly what I posted, that FDR lied us into war and attacked a country that did not attack the US and the far left worships him for it..
Just proved my comments far left drone..
I disagree - look at the so-called Gilded Age in America. That was the height of unfettered, unregulated capitalism and it was certainly free market capitalism. Not only was it a period of huge economic opportunity and wealth for some, it was a period of grinding poverty, abuse, and desperation for many, which made socialism and communism and easy sell.
I'm not sure I see that. America was founded on individualism and free enterprise. It's culture is distinctly different from Europe. I can see some forms of socialism, such as health care (and I support it) making inroads as a matter of practical necessity. I can not see any large-scale socialist institutions developing. It's already quite clear that socialism as an economic model, doesn't work well and state owned industries don't perform as well as privately owned industries and socialist systems don't tend to inspire entrepeneurship which I think is a very American ideal.
Well,
I think there are merits to socialism that can be incorporated into a capitalist economy.
Human nature makes a mockery of many well thought out systems. Socialism, Capitalism, Communism...they look good in theory, and on paper, but people refuse to behave the way they are supposed to. That's why I think taking the best from each makes sense.
The Gilded Age brought about a groundswell that brought us as close to socialism as America has ever been. Franklin D. Roosevelt saved capitalism.
How FDR Saved Capitalism Hoover Institution
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
Yes and this proves exactly what I posted, that FDR lied us into war and attacked a country that did not attack the US and the far left worships him for it..
Just proved my comments far left drone..
WHAT country did America attack?
What a dumbass. The military supplies a service idiot. That is their product.
I've never advocated that. You're a liar and propagandizer. In other words, a liberal.We love capitalism, we just don't want to join your group...
Yes, we provide for their medical needs for their service included in their pay. A part of the pay is monetary and a part is "benefits."The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
That is true.
But some of its activities are socialistic, ie, health care which is not part of it mission.
.
Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal
.
As for the veterans' programs? It seems to be socialistic but I consider it a payment for their service when put/had put their lives on the line. They earned it but the payment is spaced out and not a lump sum.
The Gilded Age brought about a groundswell that brought us as close to socialism as America has ever been. Franklin D. Roosevelt saved capitalism.
How FDR Saved Capitalism Hoover Institution
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
Yes and this proves exactly what I posted, that FDR lied us into war and attacked a country that did not attack the US and the far left worships him for it..
Just proved my comments far left drone..
WHAT country did America attack?
Oh my the far left proves that they do not understand true and actual history..
Did Germany attack the US?
AgreeYes, we provide for their medical needs for their service included in their pay. A part of the pay is monetary and a part is "benefits."The collective/government (we are the government, even if you don't want to admit it) owns and administers the military. We all pay for it through taxes. The goods the military produces is their service. Of course the military is purely socialism. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
I cannot believe somebody can be that a fucking idiot and do not even try to hide it. Are you for real or just a masochist enjoying abuse?
OK… Listen... You have it backwards: the military doesn't produce anything such as tangible goods. (the exception to this when the military is used for construction such as Roman Legions were building roads while not in war so were the French Foreign Legionnaires) Military personnel exchange their services for goods. That means they get paid by us to go and (unfortunately) if necessary die for idiots like you. Military is not a socialist entity. Military is a war machine.
That is true.
But some of its activities are socialistic, ie, health care which is not part of it mission.
.
Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal
.
As for the veterans' programs? It seems to be socialistic but I consider it a payment for their service when put/had put their lives on the line. They earned it but the payment is spaced out and not a lump sum.
The VA healthre is ALSO socialistic. That is the reason veterans are treated like shit.
There is no reason Veterans can not use their VA ID to get healthcare at non-VA facilities.
.
So FDR's lie to get the US in to WWII and attack a country that did not attack us is the hero of the far left, go figure that one.
Then again I bet this far left drone believes communist China is capitalism..
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
Yes and this proves exactly what I posted, that FDR lied us into war and attacked a country that did not attack the US and the far left worships him for it..
Just proved my comments far left drone..
WHAT country did America attack?
Oh my the far left proves that they do not understand true and actual history..
Did Germany attack the US?
You truly are an imbecile. Germany declared war ON the United States 4 days after Japan ATTACKED us.
December 7, 1941
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.
December 8, 1941
The United States declares war on Japan, entering World War II.
December 11–13, 1941
Nazi Germany and its Axis partners declare war on the United States.
