The collapse of Germany's solar and wind industry!!

[elektra]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

 

[danielpalos]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

 

[danielpalos]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

Alaska could pioneer mass solar arrays for the sunny season.

 

[elektra]

Alaska could pioneer mass solar arrays for the sunny season.

Of course, we could cover the entire state of Alaska with Solar Panels mass produced by Heavy Industry. We could use the Heavy Industry in foreign countries so the pollution from your stupid idea is hidden from the public's view.

 

[flacaltenn]

Cost of using renewables when THEY are ready to perform is idling perfectly good power plants that have employees and investors. And the cost of WASTED energy from the power-down/power-up cycles is NEVER properly added to cost of solar and wind.

In MOST BIG systems -- the excess energy is just DUMPED and wasted rather than cycling very expensive equipment. The "plug/play" catchword is just ANOTHER exaggeration of how simple all this is promulgated by folks who have no FUCKING idea how the lights come on.. .

we just need a better grid with more capacitance.

Yep a couple Gtons of limited life batteries. Do some math. The Nissan Leaf has a 30Kw-hr battery. That's enough to run 30 homes for 1hour. (NOT including grocery stores, steel mills, hospitals, etc).. AND assuming none of those of homes are already trying to CHARGE a Nissan Leaf.. It's COST is somewhere around $4000. To carry a small town (30K homes) with all it's other infrastructure thru a 1 hr "lapse in sun or wind", you're talking about 2000 of these battery packs and $8Mill (not counting land, design, facilities construction, other stuff reqd and maintenance) for just ONE HOUR !! To get thru night without solar you need 32,000 of the packs @ a cost of $128Mill. Total cost of the facility could approach $250,000,000.

The combined energy stored in that last "grid scale battery" is a fucking 960Mwatt - hrs. It would take a solar capacity of THREE TIMES what you put into the field in the first place to keep it charged. Or the full capacity of nuclear power plant for 1 hour. And if all that energy were RELEASED by a plane crash or a terrorist action -- it would have the explosive yield of a small tactical nuclear weapon.. Any questions?

Yep. Are all engineers as stupid as you? LOL

Tesla Wins Massive Contract to Power the California Grid

It's the latest response to a fossil-fuel disaster.
by
Tom Randall
September 15, 2016, 11:21 AM PDT
Tesla just won a bid to supply grid-scale power in Southern California to help prevent electricity shortages following the biggest natural gas leak in U.S. history. The Powerpacks, worth tens of millions of dollars, will be operational in record time—by the end of this year.

Tesla Motors Inc. will supply 20 megawatts (80 megawatt-hours) of energy storage to Southern California Edison as part of a wider effort to prevent blackouts by replacing fossil-fuel electricity generation with lithium-ion batteries. Tesla's contribution is enough to power about 2,500 homes for a full day, the company said in a blog post on Thursday. But the real significance of the deal is the speed with which lithium-ion battery packs are being deployed.

Eos Energy Storage – Powering the Dawn of Energy Storage

Eos Energy Storage, the startup that’s attracted utility interest from around the world in its low-cost, zinc-based batteries, is raising money to build more of them, and to get those units out in the field. Deployments are needed to prove the company’s bold claims of multi-hour, long-lasting energy storage at a cost of $160 per kilowatt-hour. On Tuesday, Eos announced the initial closing of a sale in a private placement of approximately $23 million.

First grid-scale Tesla Powerpack for Europe installed in the UK

First grid-scale Tesla Powerpack for Europe installed in the UK

• By David Pratt
  
• Sep 21, 2016 5:02 PM BST
  
• 0

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Image: Tesla.

The first grid-scale installation of the Tesla Powerpack system in Europe has been completed in the UK by Camborne Energy Storage and is already providing ancillary services to the National Grid.

The 500kWh capacity system, has been co-located with a 500kWp solar farm in Somerset to demonstrate the potential to provide a balanced grid.

Each of Camborne’s installed systems are designed to further assist and improve the efficiency of the UK’s energy infrastructure, with this latest project providing firm frequency response (FFR) to the grid.

It is currently not providing arbitrage but is prepared to in the future with the assistance of an undisclosed aggregator working with Camborne.

Dan Taylor, managing director of Camborne, said: “The development of Tesla’s first European grid-tied system is an exciting step forward for Camborne and Tesla in terms of our respective storage strategies. This project is another success for storage development in the UK and being co-located with a renewable generation site, should offer significant benefits to all stakeholders.”

According to Poweri Services, which was the EPC for the project, it is a commercially viable project and not a demonstration. The system was able to share the existing grid connection used by the solar farm, which helped to keep the costs low.

Wow Old Rocks that's bigger and less energy than I calculated. At 500KW-hrs ALL of that is 500 homes for ONE HOUR.. Good job. I see Elon Musk is sucking up more subsidies...

Guess what? If you WERE a superb engineer/scientist as I am and not talking out of your ass, you would have recognized that "this latest project providing firm frequency response to the Grid" is not intended as "grid scale storage" at all. But merely power conditioning, for removing transient frequency variations between different sections of the grid. It's purpose is not measured by Homes and hours of storage. Because it does that job on Higher Energies in a matter of SECONDS.

Nice try...

the point is, energy specialists now have an hour to fix a problem before it affects their customers.

Know nothing morons MIGHT assume that. But what I REALLY TOLD YOU is that the battery storage that Old Rocks posted is NOT to store sketchy wind/solar for when it's not available. It's merely to homogenized minor frequency fluctuations that occur when you MERGE different grid sources. Frequency fluctuations are a standard issue -- REGARDLESS of the source.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Nuclear Option Could Be Best Bet to Combat Climate Change

Oh THIS one is gonna hurt poor ole Old Rocks and the other over-propagandized "alternative" fanatics. Except that poor Daniel won't have a CLUE who these people are -- or why these following statements are so damning.


Is nuclear power the answer on climate change?


Hansen departs from environmental orthodoxy, however, in arguing that there is no way to cut greenhouse gas emissions sufficiently by relying solely on green alternatives like solar and wind power.

“Suggesting that renewables will let us phase rapidly off fossil fuels in the United States, China, India, or the world as a whole” Hansen writes in an essay, “is almost the equivalent of believing in the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.”



75 KEY academic endorsements from biology, climate change, ecology, biodiversity studies for EMPHASIZING adoption of a nuclear power strategy.. This is just ONE of dozens signed endorsements I've seen.

An Open Letter to Environmentalists on Nuclear Energy

 

[Billy_Bob]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

Now this is the kind of liberal ignorance that will kill millions.. Have they found a superconductor that has zero loss so that the solar on one side of the planet can be transmitted to the other?

You really have no concept of the problems...

 

[polarbear]

If the grid needs to "upgraded" to implement renewables, that means renewables were forced on us when they were not ready.

a better grid means it is easier to "plug and play" energy sources.

Cost of using renewables when THEY are ready to perform is idling perfectly good power plants that have employees and investors. And the cost of WASTED energy from the power-down/power-up cycles is NEVER properly added to cost of solar and wind.

In MOST BIG systems -- the excess energy is just DUMPED and wasted rather than cycling very expensive equipment. The "plug/play" catchword is just ANOTHER exaggeration of how simple all this is promulgated by folks who have no FUCKING idea how the lights come on.. .

we just need a better grid with more capacitance.

Yep a couple Gtons of limited life batteries. Do some math. The Nissan Leaf has a 30Kw-hr battery. That's enough to run 30 homes for 1hour. (NOT including grocery stores, steel mills, hospitals, etc).. AND assuming none of those of homes are already trying to CHARGE a Nissan Leaf.. It's COST is somewhere around $4000. To carry a small town (30K homes) with all it's other infrastructure thru a 1 hr "lapse in sun or wind", you're talking about 2000 of these battery packs and $8Mill (not counting land, design, facilities construction, other stuff reqd and maintenance) for just ONE HOUR !! To get thru night without solar you need 32,000 of the packs @ a cost of $128Mill. Total cost of the facility could approach $250,000,000.

The combined energy stored in that last "grid scale battery" is a fucking 960Mwatt - hrs. It would take a solar capacity of THREE TIMES what you put into the field in the first place to keep it charged. Or the full capacity of nuclear power plant for 1 hour. And if all that energy were RELEASED by a plane crash or a terrorist action -- it would have the explosive yield of a small tactical nuclear weapon.. Any questions?

Technology is improving all the time. And, it doesn't have to be batteries, it could be capacitors. A better grid could include more capacitance anywhere on the grid.

Take a look at the world`s largest capacitor, it`s at the high magnetic field lab in Dresden Germany:
Capacitor bank, High Magnetic Field Laboratory, Dr. Andrea Bianchi - Helmholtz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf, HZDR

And the total capacitance is not even 0.2 Farads !
Why is it that people who have no understanding of even elementary physics are incapable of understanding that the people who do, regard them as fringe lunatics?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The Nuclear Option Could Be Best Bet to Combat Climate Change

Oh THIS one is gonna hurt poor ole Old Rocks and the other over-propagandized "alternative" fanatics. Except that poor Daniel won't have a CLUE who these people are -- or why these following statements are so damning.


Is nuclear power the answer on climate change?


Hansen departs from environmental orthodoxy, however, in arguing that there is no way to cut greenhouse gas emissions sufficiently by relying solely on green alternatives like solar and wind power.

“Suggesting that renewables will let us phase rapidly off fossil fuels in the United States, China, India, or the world as a whole” Hansen writes in an essay, “is almost the equivalent of believing in the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.”



75 KEY academic endorsements from biology, climate change, ecology, biodiversity studies for EMPHASIZING adoption of a nuclear power strategy.. This is just ONE of dozens signed endorsements I've seen.

An Open Letter to Environmentalists on Nuclear Energy

JustWatch

 

[flacaltenn]

a better grid means it is easier to "plug and play" energy sources.

Cost of using renewables when THEY are ready to perform is idling perfectly good power plants that have employees and investors. And the cost of WASTED energy from the power-down/power-up cycles is NEVER properly added to cost of solar and wind.

In MOST BIG systems -- the excess energy is just DUMPED and wasted rather than cycling very expensive equipment. The "plug/play" catchword is just ANOTHER exaggeration of how simple all this is promulgated by folks who have no FUCKING idea how the lights come on.. .

we just need a better grid with more capacitance.

Yep a couple Gtons of limited life batteries. Do some math. The Nissan Leaf has a 30Kw-hr battery. That's enough to run 30 homes for 1hour. (NOT including grocery stores, steel mills, hospitals, etc).. AND assuming none of those of homes are already trying to CHARGE a Nissan Leaf.. It's COST is somewhere around $4000. To carry a small town (30K homes) with all it's other infrastructure thru a 1 hr "lapse in sun or wind", you're talking about 2000 of these battery packs and $8Mill (not counting land, design, facilities construction, other stuff reqd and maintenance) for just ONE HOUR !! To get thru night without solar you need 32,000 of the packs @ a cost of $128Mill. Total cost of the facility could approach $250,000,000.

The combined energy stored in that last "grid scale battery" is a fucking 960Mwatt - hrs. It would take a solar capacity of THREE TIMES what you put into the field in the first place to keep it charged. Or the full capacity of nuclear power plant for 1 hour. And if all that energy were RELEASED by a plane crash or a terrorist action -- it would have the explosive yield of a small tactical nuclear weapon.. Any questions?

Technology is improving all the time. And, it doesn't have to be batteries, it could be capacitors. A better grid could include more capacitance anywhere on the grid.

Take a look at the world`s largest capacitor, it`s at the high magnetic field lab in Dresden Germany:
Capacitor bank, High Magnetic Field Laboratory, Dr. Andrea Bianchi - Helmholtz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf, HZDR

And the total capacitance is not even 0.2 Farads !
Why is it that people who have no understanding of even elementary physics are incapable of understanding that the people who do, regard them as fringe lunatics?

Well P-Bear. When you're aim is store gigantic amounts of power for 20 picoseconds -- it will do the job.

Gotta say in defense of capacitors tho -- there are uses for supercaps. Because they charge/discharge so much nicer than batteries. I've seen several transit system that charge on route using them.

Super Capacitors  and Ultracapacitors - New Super Energy Storage



Try explaining that to the folks talking about "plug and play" grid design. I think they all needed to have erector sets and Lincoln Logs when they were littler kids....

 

[danielpalos]

Alaska could pioneer mass solar arrays for the sunny season.

Of course, we could cover the entire state of Alaska with Solar Panels mass produced by Heavy Industry. We could use the Heavy Industry in foreign countries so the pollution from your stupid idea is hidden from the public's view.

Just being Glum, chic? Fossil fuels is not a better solution.

 

[elektra]

Just being Glum, chic? Fossil fuels is not a better solution.

Then why does Solar Power use Fossil fuel? Why is Solar Power dependent on Fossil Fuels if Fossil Fuels are not a better solution?

 

[danielpalos]

Just being Glum, chic? Fossil fuels is not a better solution.

Then why does Solar Power use Fossil fuel? Why is Solar Power dependent on Fossil Fuels if Fossil Fuels are not a better solution?

Because, socialists get nationalist instead of liberal, and have Manhattan Projects for fission instead of fusion (an energy with a future).

 

[westwall]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

Nor will we ever. However if they could bring Tesla's "broadcast electric grid" on line, that would work.

 

[danielpalos]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

Nor will we ever. However if they could bring Tesla's "broadcast electric grid" on line, that would work.

an upgraded grid could include more capacitance.

 

[elektra]

an upgraded grid could include more capacitance.

No, it can not.

 

[elektra]

Because, socialists get nationalist instead of liberal, and have Manhattan Projects for fission instead of fusion (an energy with a future).

you have that inversed

 

[flacaltenn]

Basically, this infrastructure improvement will help us have more energy more readily available in a more cost effective manner, for the private sector to "plug and play".

reducing costs for the private sector is what Government should be doing.

Solar Energy? Do you think before you speak, tell us how adding more Solar Panels makes, "more energy more readily available", at lets say, midnight?

we don't have an "international grid", yet.

Nor will we ever. However if they could bring Tesla's "broadcast electric grid" on line, that would work.

an upgraded grid could include more capacitance.

Please stop with the "increased capacitance" before I laugh myself to death. Or become bored with your "help".. You made the suggestion. Let the engineering review committees take it into SERIOUS consideration.

 

[danielpalos]

an upgraded grid could include more capacitance.

No, it can not.

Yes, it can; that is one reason for an upgrade.

 

[danielpalos]

Because, socialists get nationalist instead of liberal, and have Manhattan Projects for fission instead of fusion (an energy with a future).

you have that inversed

nope; liberal socialists believe in natural rights and our Constitution. national socialists Only believe in the second clause of our Second Amendment.