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The Christian Testimonies
- Thread starter HaShev
- Start date
- Jun 19, 2009
- 17,451
- 6,833
- 335
- Thread starter
- #2
By Binah Ruth, a Conservative female
I once attended an informal talk by David Mamet. He mentioned a movie he watched a long time ago but couldn’t remember the name of it. There was a funny scene where a group of plane hijacker busted onboard with machine guns, asking “who is a Jew?” A meek guy in the back of the plane raised his hand responded “now, that is an interesting question.” With a laugh, we all commented that sounded like a stereotype Jewish response.
Indeed, what is a Jew? This is one of the questions I had to find out for my conversion. Armed with Rabbi Hillel’s famous quote, “If not now, when…” and Rabbi Akiva’s opinion on studying leads to doing – Straight away, I started off by reading books, going to classes and studying with Rabbi Ezray. I was expecting to find answer in some books, or some famous person’s speech. Jewish is a race? A religion? A culture? No, it’s a People, so I read. Interesting…next I needed to define the “people.” I spent months learning about Jewish culture, holidays, life cycle, history, etc. On the spiritual side, Rabbi Ezray guided me to define my own personal God, studied some Torah, Talmud, and prayer. Our late Ruth Shapiro guided me on ritual, prayers, traditional point-of-views, listened to my non-sense and getting on my back from time to time like a good Jewish mom. I am blessed to have Rabbi Ezray, Ruth, and other people both from within and outside of Congregation Beth Jacob (Redwood City) community helping me along the way.
I was raised in a Daoist family in Hong Kong and my family sent me to a Catholic school there. Back then, most Catholic schools in Hong Kong have a good reputation of academic excellence and education in virtue. To help me ease the religious pressure from the Catholic school, my parents had always suggested me to view the religious study as a part of social studies. They also encourage me to learn about different religions to broaden my mind and knowledge. “Amy, no need to hurry into any decision – It’s a life-long quest,” as aba would say. Strange, huh? I have always called my father aba as far back as I can remember. How it started, I don’t know. Aba doesn’t remember neither. Perhaps it was a sign? Ruth was sure it was a sign! During the quest, I found the Jewish values and beliefs reaffirming the Daoist theory most of the time. If I come across any differences, the beliefs are usually complementary to each other. Gradually, I started integrating the Jewish values and beliefs to fill in the shortcoming of Dao and vice-versa. For example, in Daoist theory, the ideology of God was never emphasized. The Jewish belief of one and the only God helped me to answered some of the questions I had since my childhood. The Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism gave me a different insight into the Daoist mysticism.
Out of the Jewish values and beliefs I studied to-date, I found Tikkun Olam to be most appealing and persuasive. In a certain way, it resonates with the Daoist’s belief in karma. What is better than being proactive in repairing the world and leaving it a better place?
I remember when I first started studying with Rabbi Ezray, I would check with him from time to time on my progress worrying I was progressing slower than normal. After a while, I noticed I haven’t been paying attention to the timeline any more. “It’s a life-long quest,” as aba said. The timeline has no significance in such quest. What a relief I don’t have to bring Einstein and his theory of relativity into this mix! One day, I was invited to a bible study group by my Christian friend. The group was studying The Book of Genesis so I thought it would be interesting to see the Book from Christian’s perspective. Unbeknownst to both of us, the study group was hosted by a Christian fundamentalist group. While we were studying the story of Noah’s Ark, one lady in the group commented that she felt the Jews historically faced a lot of disasters and adversities because they don’t believe in Jesus. She further concluded if Jews had accepted and believes in Jesus, a lot of the disasters would not have happened. Given it the benefit of the doubt, I would like to believe that was an opinion of just one person and not a reflection of the whole group. Nevertheless I was devastated, I felt she was condemning me directly and I needed to speak up. I politely corrected her that the story stated all people died. It didn’t segregated Jews as the only group that fell victim to the flood, and I wept for all that died. Needless to say, I stopped going to that study group after that incident. I was upset by the comment, but that was also the moment I realized I have already taken up the Jewish identity.
Moving forward, there is still a lot to do and study. It is a life-long quest. Besides, I am a firm believer in continuous learning until the day I die. The Jewish study would certainly be part of my growing path. The conversion is just the beginning of my life journey.
I have chosen Binah Ruth as my Hebrew name – On the fortieth year of my birth, God blessed me with insight! Ruth has been a good friend and good mentor during my journey. I am choosing it as my Hebrew name in memory of our beloved Ruth Shapiro.
And lastly, thank you Leslie Weinstein for helping me to identify the movie mentioned above – It was Delta Force with Chuck Norris.
I once attended an informal talk by David Mamet. He mentioned a movie he watched a long time ago but couldn’t remember the name of it. There was a funny scene where a group of plane hijacker busted onboard with machine guns, asking “who is a Jew?” A meek guy in the back of the plane raised his hand responded “now, that is an interesting question.” With a laugh, we all commented that sounded like a stereotype Jewish response.
Indeed, what is a Jew? This is one of the questions I had to find out for my conversion. Armed with Rabbi Hillel’s famous quote, “If not now, when…” and Rabbi Akiva’s opinion on studying leads to doing – Straight away, I started off by reading books, going to classes and studying with Rabbi Ezray. I was expecting to find answer in some books, or some famous person’s speech. Jewish is a race? A religion? A culture? No, it’s a People, so I read. Interesting…next I needed to define the “people.” I spent months learning about Jewish culture, holidays, life cycle, history, etc. On the spiritual side, Rabbi Ezray guided me to define my own personal God, studied some Torah, Talmud, and prayer. Our late Ruth Shapiro guided me on ritual, prayers, traditional point-of-views, listened to my non-sense and getting on my back from time to time like a good Jewish mom. I am blessed to have Rabbi Ezray, Ruth, and other people both from within and outside of Congregation Beth Jacob (Redwood City) community helping me along the way.
I was raised in a Daoist family in Hong Kong and my family sent me to a Catholic school there. Back then, most Catholic schools in Hong Kong have a good reputation of academic excellence and education in virtue. To help me ease the religious pressure from the Catholic school, my parents had always suggested me to view the religious study as a part of social studies. They also encourage me to learn about different religions to broaden my mind and knowledge. “Amy, no need to hurry into any decision – It’s a life-long quest,” as aba would say. Strange, huh? I have always called my father aba as far back as I can remember. How it started, I don’t know. Aba doesn’t remember neither. Perhaps it was a sign? Ruth was sure it was a sign! During the quest, I found the Jewish values and beliefs reaffirming the Daoist theory most of the time. If I come across any differences, the beliefs are usually complementary to each other. Gradually, I started integrating the Jewish values and beliefs to fill in the shortcoming of Dao and vice-versa. For example, in Daoist theory, the ideology of God was never emphasized. The Jewish belief of one and the only God helped me to answered some of the questions I had since my childhood. The Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism gave me a different insight into the Daoist mysticism.
Out of the Jewish values and beliefs I studied to-date, I found Tikkun Olam to be most appealing and persuasive. In a certain way, it resonates with the Daoist’s belief in karma. What is better than being proactive in repairing the world and leaving it a better place?
I remember when I first started studying with Rabbi Ezray, I would check with him from time to time on my progress worrying I was progressing slower than normal. After a while, I noticed I haven’t been paying attention to the timeline any more. “It’s a life-long quest,” as aba said. The timeline has no significance in such quest. What a relief I don’t have to bring Einstein and his theory of relativity into this mix! One day, I was invited to a bible study group by my Christian friend. The group was studying The Book of Genesis so I thought it would be interesting to see the Book from Christian’s perspective. Unbeknownst to both of us, the study group was hosted by a Christian fundamentalist group. While we were studying the story of Noah’s Ark, one lady in the group commented that she felt the Jews historically faced a lot of disasters and adversities because they don’t believe in Jesus. She further concluded if Jews had accepted and believes in Jesus, a lot of the disasters would not have happened. Given it the benefit of the doubt, I would like to believe that was an opinion of just one person and not a reflection of the whole group. Nevertheless I was devastated, I felt she was condemning me directly and I needed to speak up. I politely corrected her that the story stated all people died. It didn’t segregated Jews as the only group that fell victim to the flood, and I wept for all that died. Needless to say, I stopped going to that study group after that incident. I was upset by the comment, but that was also the moment I realized I have already taken up the Jewish identity.
Moving forward, there is still a lot to do and study. It is a life-long quest. Besides, I am a firm believer in continuous learning until the day I die. The Jewish study would certainly be part of my growing path. The conversion is just the beginning of my life journey.
I have chosen Binah Ruth as my Hebrew name – On the fortieth year of my birth, God blessed me with insight! Ruth has been a good friend and good mentor during my journey. I am choosing it as my Hebrew name in memory of our beloved Ruth Shapiro.
And lastly, thank you Leslie Weinstein for helping me to identify the movie mentioned above – It was Delta Force with Chuck Norris.
- Jun 19, 2009
- 17,451
- 6,833
- 335
- Thread starter
- #3
Picture
By M, a Reform female
For most of my life I was not a religious person. My father was agnostic and my mother was Catholic. When I was growing up, my mother wanted to give me a religious education because it was the "right thing to do," according to her. As a child, I attended the services at the church and I went to catechism. My father used to tease my mother by saying that she was trying to "brainwash me" with outdated concepts. In grade school, most of my teachers were anticlerical and said that religious beliefs were simply superstition.
Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that my father and my teachers were probably right. At the same time, I was asking myself questions: The idea that God sent his only son to be killed to save us did not make any sense. Was the world a better place after Jesus was killed and resurrected? If there was a God, why did God, who was so loving, allow all the injustice to happen in the world? Why did people commit massacre in the name of religion? Was not a religion as good as another religion? When I asked these questions, my mother and the priest would respond with, "Don’t question, just have faith." As a result I stopped going to church when I was in my teens. I did see not the point in going to a place of worship if I did not agree on the religious beliefs and practices.
I went through life caring very little about God and religion. However, deep down I believed that there was supernatural force, a Master of the Universe. Science did not give me a satisfactory answer on how the world was created. My teachers talked about the Big Bang. Science could not tell what was before the Big Bang. I believed that the master of the Universe set the Big Bang into motion and the world originated from there.
A major life change happened three years ago. My husband filed for divorce after 21 years of marriage. I almost had a nervous breakdown because I was frightened. I had no marketable job skills, I had never been alone in all those years, and I depended on my husband for my well-being. With the support of my family and friends, I picked myself up, and went back to college to get a master's degree in social work. Two weeks after graduation, I found my first job as a social worker in an agency working with seniors.
My clients at the agency were elderly Russian Jewish immigrants. As a social worker, I wanted to be culturally competent. I needed to know where my clients were coming from to better understand them. I took Russian language classes at City College and I attended a three-day workshop called a "Taste of Judaism." I felt that the workshop on Judaism was not enough to satisfy my curiosity. I took another six-week course on "Intro to Judaism." At the same time, I attended the Sabbath and Torah services. I was attracted by Judaism’s emphasis on action, rather than faith and dogma. I also learned that Judaism is not only a religion but a culture.
At the end of the workshop I talked to Lisa (who runs the conversion program at Sherith Israel) about the possibility of conversion. I really appreciated that I could take my time and study Judaism in depth before committing myself. My mentor, Helen, is very supportive and patient. She invited me for Passover and Hanukah. She sat with me at the Torah services and study. I learned more by participating than reading from a book. During the Torah study, I was amazed that the participants asked questions, and they were allowed to have different points of view. In addition, Helen suggested that I volunteer for Hamotzi. I really enjoy preparing meals for the shelters. In order to better understand the prayer book, I have been taking Hebrew classes.
Looking back when I first started attending Intro to Judaism classes and conversion classes, my view of God has changed. He (or she) is not the distant entity living in the sky. I believe that God is omnipotent, omnipresent and animates all beings. Therefore everything that happens, good things as well as bad things, is God’s will. What the prophet Isaiah said makes sense, "I am the Lord, there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make weal and I create woe; I am the Lord of all these things." Now I do not try to control events anymore; I surrender to God. In life we have limited choices. Our apparent free will is conditioned by our environment, genetics, and talent. This, too, is God's will.
With Judaism I have found the values that I searched for. Judaism shows me the way to become a holy person. The way of salvation is by action rather than faith. We are in partnership with God to make the world better. I am looking forward to becoming part of the Jewish community.
By M, a Reform female
For most of my life I was not a religious person. My father was agnostic and my mother was Catholic. When I was growing up, my mother wanted to give me a religious education because it was the "right thing to do," according to her. As a child, I attended the services at the church and I went to catechism. My father used to tease my mother by saying that she was trying to "brainwash me" with outdated concepts. In grade school, most of my teachers were anticlerical and said that religious beliefs were simply superstition.
Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that my father and my teachers were probably right. At the same time, I was asking myself questions: The idea that God sent his only son to be killed to save us did not make any sense. Was the world a better place after Jesus was killed and resurrected? If there was a God, why did God, who was so loving, allow all the injustice to happen in the world? Why did people commit massacre in the name of religion? Was not a religion as good as another religion? When I asked these questions, my mother and the priest would respond with, "Don’t question, just have faith." As a result I stopped going to church when I was in my teens. I did see not the point in going to a place of worship if I did not agree on the religious beliefs and practices.
I went through life caring very little about God and religion. However, deep down I believed that there was supernatural force, a Master of the Universe. Science did not give me a satisfactory answer on how the world was created. My teachers talked about the Big Bang. Science could not tell what was before the Big Bang. I believed that the master of the Universe set the Big Bang into motion and the world originated from there.
A major life change happened three years ago. My husband filed for divorce after 21 years of marriage. I almost had a nervous breakdown because I was frightened. I had no marketable job skills, I had never been alone in all those years, and I depended on my husband for my well-being. With the support of my family and friends, I picked myself up, and went back to college to get a master's degree in social work. Two weeks after graduation, I found my first job as a social worker in an agency working with seniors.
My clients at the agency were elderly Russian Jewish immigrants. As a social worker, I wanted to be culturally competent. I needed to know where my clients were coming from to better understand them. I took Russian language classes at City College and I attended a three-day workshop called a "Taste of Judaism." I felt that the workshop on Judaism was not enough to satisfy my curiosity. I took another six-week course on "Intro to Judaism." At the same time, I attended the Sabbath and Torah services. I was attracted by Judaism’s emphasis on action, rather than faith and dogma. I also learned that Judaism is not only a religion but a culture.
At the end of the workshop I talked to Lisa (who runs the conversion program at Sherith Israel) about the possibility of conversion. I really appreciated that I could take my time and study Judaism in depth before committing myself. My mentor, Helen, is very supportive and patient. She invited me for Passover and Hanukah. She sat with me at the Torah services and study. I learned more by participating than reading from a book. During the Torah study, I was amazed that the participants asked questions, and they were allowed to have different points of view. In addition, Helen suggested that I volunteer for Hamotzi. I really enjoy preparing meals for the shelters. In order to better understand the prayer book, I have been taking Hebrew classes.
Looking back when I first started attending Intro to Judaism classes and conversion classes, my view of God has changed. He (or she) is not the distant entity living in the sky. I believe that God is omnipotent, omnipresent and animates all beings. Therefore everything that happens, good things as well as bad things, is God’s will. What the prophet Isaiah said makes sense, "I am the Lord, there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make weal and I create woe; I am the Lord of all these things." Now I do not try to control events anymore; I surrender to God. In life we have limited choices. Our apparent free will is conditioned by our environment, genetics, and talent. This, too, is God's will.
With Judaism I have found the values that I searched for. Judaism shows me the way to become a holy person. The way of salvation is by action rather than faith. We are in partnership with God to make the world better. I am looking forward to becoming part of the Jewish community.
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
- 60,260
- 15,767
- 2,210
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
- Banned
- #7
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
- 60,260
- 15,767
- 2,210
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
Took it from the Hebrew Scriptures:
Genesis 38:9-10New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
9 Onan, however, knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he had intercourse with his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid giving offspring to his brother. 10 What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.
At least we do not feel the need to get our dead brothers wife pregnant.
- Jun 19, 2009
- 17,451
- 6,833
- 335
- Thread starter
- #9
1) always use the Tanakh in English when reading OT
2)never use our progressed ways in our place & time to view and compare and judge the uncouth ways of the ancient archaic age. The whole idea is for us to want to evolve from the things they did back then, it's only common sense. It's when you COVER UP (FIG LEAF) & hide your deceptions (nakedness) by whitewashing characters is when it's a problem, because you don't learn and progress from those things.
This is why the Hebrew Bible leaves the dirty laundry of David in the story, because we recognise & discuss how wrong it was to steal BathSheba, by sending her husband off to battle. You do not find reality in a man made perfect (sinless) or his immacukate mother who you find out ends up being a Harlot. IN THE end people aporeciate the honest storyvof David but feel used and abused by the immaculate deception.
2)never use our progressed ways in our place & time to view and compare and judge the uncouth ways of the ancient archaic age. The whole idea is for us to want to evolve from the things they did back then, it's only common sense. It's when you COVER UP (FIG LEAF) & hide your deceptions (nakedness) by whitewashing characters is when it's a problem, because you don't learn and progress from those things.
This is why the Hebrew Bible leaves the dirty laundry of David in the story, because we recognise & discuss how wrong it was to steal BathSheba, by sending her husband off to battle. You do not find reality in a man made perfect (sinless) or his immacukate mother who you find out ends up being a Harlot. IN THE end people aporeciate the honest storyvof David but feel used and abused by the immaculate deception.
Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.
God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.
Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.
In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.
God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.
A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."
However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.
This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.
God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.
Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.
In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.
God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.
A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."
However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.
This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.
- Jun 19, 2009
- 17,451
- 6,833
- 335
- Thread starter
- #11
Um then you admit he's not the God of Abraham who states the laws are forever and you contradict the Nt like in 13 places says to keep the kaw one saying keepvthe Torah, 2 says salvstion is from the Jews not from a converged religion Rome created using their created figure to deceive the world....oh and the jails and grave sites filled with crosses say otherwise also.
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
I am fascinated, Penelope-----when did jews realize that they
"need to take anyone and everyone" when did Hebrew become a "dead language"? Your statement "Hebrew ......wll never replace English"----really confuses me-----what does it mean?
is it something like "French will never replace German"?
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
- 60,260
- 15,767
- 2,210
Um then you admit he's not the God of Abraham who states the laws are forever and you contradict the Nt like in 13 places says to keep the kaw one saying keepvthe Torah, 2 says salvstion is from the Jews not from a converged religion Rome created using their created figure to deceive the world....oh and the jails and grave sites filled with crosses say otherwise also.
You have me pegged wrong, I'm not a Christian fundamentalist. I do not believe in the virgin birth or that much in the bible even happened. They are stories and tales of the culture of the times, and most of the OT is building upon stories before it, and so does Christianity. The OT Hebrews believed in many Gods, they were not monotheistic, the El , the high God , became Yahweh the tribal war God of the Israelites, which finally became the head God. You can call God whatever you want, because no one really knows his name, if God even has a name. I find the study of religions fascinating, its tells more about culture, and you Israelites , or Canaanites whatever would do a great disservice to keep destroying the artifacts and historical accounts of other ancients. You have further progressed Christianity, into the new liberal Judaism who views Judaism as a culture , not a religion. Its called being atheist, and so Jew is not a race, nor a religion , its mainly like a tradition.
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
- 60,260
- 15,767
- 2,210
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
I am fascinated, Penelope-----when did jews realize that they
"need to take anyone and everyone" when did Hebrew become a "dead language"? Your statement "Hebrew ......wll never replace English"----really confuses me-----what does it mean?
is it something like "French will never replace German"?
Yiddish was the language, and few spoke Hebrew at the turn of the 1900's and that is why the push is on to teach Hebrew, because once a language is dead so are it people, and your people died out years ago, save a few who are still orthodox. This is called the period of the great jewish revival, but it will die again as it has no substance.
Um then you admit he's not the God of Abraham who states the laws are forever and you contradict the Nt like in 13 places says to keep the kaw one saying keepvthe Torah, 2 says salvstion is from the Jews not from a converged religion Rome created using their created figure to deceive the world....oh and the jails and grave sites filled with crosses say otherwise also.
You have me pegged wrong, I'm not a Christian fundamentalist. I do not believe in the virgin birth or that much in the bible even happened. They are stories and tales of the culture of the times, and most of the OT is building upon stories before it, and so does Christianity. The OT Hebrews believed in many Gods, they were not monotheistic, the El , the high God , became Yahweh the tribal war God of the Israelites, which finally became the head God. You can call God whatever you want, because no one really knows his name, if God even has a name. I find the study of religions fascinating, its tells more about culture, and you Israelites , or Canaanites whatever would do a great disservice to keep destroying the artifacts and historical accounts of other ancients. You have further progressed Christianity, into the new liberal Judaism who views Judaism as a culture , not a religion. Its called being atheist, and so Jew is not a race, nor a religion , its mainly like a tradition.
Penelope---your critique of both Judaism and Christianity and its scriptural writings is superficial, silly and a mere parroting of pseudo-
intellectual jerks. Your chit chat would work well in bar/pool-room that serves transient truck drivers and local inebriates and residents of brothels (it would work well in hospital wards in which persons with
Laennec's disease lie dying, too) But here, it is very dull.
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
- 60,260
- 15,767
- 2,210
Having to learn a ancient extinct language to become a "jewish" is such a waste, as Hebrew will never really be a language. All its good for is to read old ancient writing , living a holy life is simple really, do not murder, kill, steal or lie or commit adultery, which is quite new to Jews.
Yes Jews realized in order to increase Judaism, they need to take anyone and everyone. Being Jewish Is no longer tribal. Tis the new jewish. There would be no reason to become Jewish , to learn the dead language of Hebrew which will never replace English, what is happening is your becoming Christians (more like Catholic) and don't realize it.
I am fascinated, Penelope-----when did jews realize that they
"need to take anyone and everyone" when did Hebrew become a "dead language"? Your statement "Hebrew ......wll never replace English"----really confuses me-----what does it mean?
is it something like "French will never replace German"?
Yiddish was the language, and few spoke Hebrew at the turn of the 1900's and that is why the push is on to teach Hebrew, because once a language is dead so are it people, and your people died out years ago, save a few who are still orthodox. This is called the period of the great jewish revival, but it will die again as it has no substance.
the fact that few people spoke Hebrew for common usage did not render it a "dead language" at the turn of the 1900s (ie about 100 years ago)--------In fact the language was still being used extensively----for scholarly and artistic purposes. It was, simply, not being used in the soccer field or the sewing circle----or in the brothel in which you were spawned. The "revival" to which you refer simply brought the
language to the grocery store, and the playground and the laundry room. It never got to your brothel. Yiddish does not exist without Hebrew-----nor does Ladino. nor do several other permutations of language that both involved and kept Hebrew vibrant for centuries----eg---the Arabic and Persian forms. The "death of Judaism"------is
a major theme in churches and mosques and has been so for more
than 1000 years. It was a big theme in churches during my childhood-------(long ago)---but I believe the idea has been washed out, lately. There was a time when the average Christian kid was inculcated with the idea that there was a natural course of events that would simply erase judaism------ie would become non-exant something like the worship of zeus. As a young adult---I learned that
muslim kids learn the same thing about Judaism and Christianity and Hinduism. The "arab spring"-----is ---IN REALITY----a renaissance of that fantasy. It is because I am familiar with the fantasy that I was able to predict the development of CALIPHATES-------so far we got one---but more are on the way (actually developing right now)
There seems to be-----at this time----a slight lull in the Christian fantasy of WORLD WIDE CHRISTIANITY
Having to learn a ancient extinct language to become a "jewish" is such a waste, as Hebrew will never really be a language. All its good for is to read old ancient writing , living a holy life is simple really, do not murder, kill, steal or lie or commit adultery, which is quite new to Jews.
What does "Hebrew will never really be a language" mean? It is and
has been a language for more than 3000 years. Did you learn the name SIR ISAAC NEWTON in the little brothel school? He was the
greatest mathematician and scientist of the entire second millennium. ----He was so impressed with the Hebrew language that he studied and wrote in it all of his life. Penelope, you seem to have a problem with language. Is there any language in the world in which you are
proficient? Were you ever offered remediation?. Some people believe that the study of a "second language" is helpful to people
like you.
Penelope
Diamond Member
- Jul 15, 2014
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Having to learn a ancient extinct language to become a "jewish" is such a waste, as Hebrew will never really be a language. All its good for is to read old ancient writing , living a holy life is simple really, do not murder, kill, steal or lie or commit adultery, which is quite new to Jews.
What does "Hebrew will never really be a language" mean? It is and
has been a language for more than 3000 years. Did you learn the name SIR ISAAC NEWTON in the little brothel school? He was the
greatest mathematician and scientist of the entire second millennium. ----He was so impressed with the Hebrew language that he studied and wrote in it all of his life. Penelope, you seem to have a problem with language. Is there any language in the world in which you are
proficient? Were you ever offered remediation?. Some people believe that the study of a "second language" is helpful to people
like you.
Irosie I can read history and the jewish history is not the same as what is in the OT. Hebrew will die out again, as most Jews do not even speak it , its not a language many people even want to learn, and one doesn't need to to read the OT. They are just stories, wrote by men. It doesn't matter if one reads them in Hebrew or English, we have plenty of scholars who translate them from Greek, which is really what one should learn or Arabic.
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