The abortion debate

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by DavidS, Jun 5, 2009.

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  1. DavidS
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    DavidS Anti-Tea Party Member

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    As the OP of this thread, I ask that everyone remain civil and shy away from using personal attacks on one another to make your point.

    The conservative point of view, if I understand this correctly, is that a fetus or a pre-fetus is a life form with the potential to become a human.

    The liberal point of view is that the fetus, up until a certain time period, is not complex enough to consider human. No matter what it has the potential to become, it is not that currently and a woman should have the right to abort the pregnancy if she so chooses.

    My view - first and early-mid second term abortions are acceptable. Anything beyond 22 weeks is disgusting and should be banned. If a fetus can survive outside the womb, then the fetus must be kept alive until birth unless it's a case of the mother's life. A rape victim should know pretty early on if she wants to terminate the pregnancy and I highly doubt an incest victim is going to mull it over for 22 weeks.

    We kill bacteria every day. We kill incests every day. Sometimes we kill animals when we hunt. These are far more complex life forms than a fetus and many conservatives find it just fine to kill these. I do not view human life as being superior to animal life - I view it equal. For the traits and qualities and intelligence we posses, animals posses different traits and qualities superior to ours. Additionally, man relies on the animal for nourishment and clothing to be kept warm as we could not do this on our own. I find this hypocritical of conservatives.

    So, that's my view on abortion. 22 weeks or less.
     
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  2. Pyrite
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    Pyrite Member

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    More or less agreed, though an important question is: where do you draw the line regarding danger to the mother? There are many conditions of birth where death of the mother is "likely", but not certain. Should abortion be permissible only at 100% certainty of death? at 75%? 50%? any real chance at all?
     
  3. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    A Fetus is a human life. Simple fact. It does no develop into anything else. If it can not be terminated after 22 weeks why would it be ok to terminate it for convenience before 22 weeks.

    Abortion by choice and convenience is wrong. At any point after the fetus develops unless a medical necessity for the mother's life.

    A human fetus is not an insect and it is not an animal nor a virus or anything other then a human life.

    Further if it is murder for a second person to terminate the fetus by some action other then medical abortion how does one justify that it is not murder to CHOSE to terminate it for non medical emergency reasons?

    I have no problem with the morning after pill by the way. As the Fetus has not developed and we have no way of knowing if one would have. Simply birth control before the fact.
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    That would be the Doctor and Mother's call. I would say any Reasonable chance of death, not just the remote possibility.
     
  5. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    I'm not big on having a huge population, so I say make it completely illegal, let wives die when they have complications, great population control in my book.
     
  6. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    not quite. That's how the Left tries to portray the Right's position. If you read that carefully, you see the loaded language used to poison the well.


    .
    Why?
    Why and how is it disgusting? Is the repulsion you feel the sole factor in your decision?

    Why?



    Define 'complex' and by what reason you equate the life of a microbe to human life when it suits your purpose, but not when the comparison ceases to suit your agenda- that is, if bacterial lifeforms are equal to our own as you imply, then homicide should never be a crime if it is okay to kill a microbe.

    I assume you are a vegan who refuses to eat food grown on any farm that keeps animals, including but not limited to beasts of burden? I assume you have no pets and you support feline and ovine suffrage?
    Demonstrate that this is true and that it means we should regard them as outr equals
    That's simply not true. Clothes can be made from plants, and small personal/family gardens can be tended by hand to sustain us. If anything, the above supports the argument that animals are simply an animal resource we must and should use as needed.

    Your post is full of ideological inconsistencies that lead me to conclude there are two possibilities:
    1) You're an idiot
    2) You're an idiot trying to be a smartass

    Which you have yet to defend
     
  7. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    Such numbers are rough guestimates based on statistics.

    Fact

    Good question

    Also fact

    because one suits the Left's agenda and the other does not?

    Does plan B prevent fertilization or merely implantation/impregnation?

    Basically, the same standards doctors currently use to assess risk?

    Sometime, I really want to smack you...
     
  8. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    That's my official and true stance. However, when it comes to polls I vote pro-choice for a more selfish reason, I want the government to stop telling us what is right and wrong.
     
  9. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    goddammit, kk...
     
  10. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    *shrugs* It's a human, I don't get along with humans IRL ... or at least I don't like their company, though for some reason people enjoy being frightened. I have never hid that fact from anyone, however I like having my freedoms, and if that means I have to give others theirs as well, so be it. It's called using logic instead of personal taste or belief. I actually believe humans are a virus the planet created to build the one true intelligent life form.
     
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