Discussion in 'ObamaCare' started by Steve_McGarrett, Sep 29, 2017.
Farewell coward! You won't be missed.
Ummmm...it's general welfare. You're saying Medicare is unconstitutional? Medicaid? The VA? LOL.
Yes, and I don't know who to be more angry with. The feckless Republicans who refuse to come up with a workable solution for the problem or the Democrats who caused it and refuse to do anything about it. President Trump is absolutely right. It will collapse under its own weight causing incalculable misery which hopefully will force the permanent political class in Washington to do something, but that's sure a piss poor way to do it.
medicare and medicaid is, yes.
That isnt general welfare. In order for it to fit that context, it would have to be completely equal in EVERY WAY for everyone, IMO. I say that because I understand what "general welfare" means.
What problem did the Democrats cause? It was Rubio who stripped out the CSR's from Obamacare that led to insurers dropping out. It was Conservative red state death panels that refused to expand Medicaid. It was Conservatives who fervently opposed a Public Option at all costs. So what did the Democrats do? Nothing. They passed a law and Conservatives have spent the last 7 years trying to undermine it any way they can not because they care about health care, but because they want to tarnish Obama's legacy because the legacy Conservatives have is shit.
Please explain how you think it's going to collapse. If it hasn't in 7 years, it's not going to unless you take deliberate action to make it so...like reducing the advertising for enrollment; like taking the site down during enrollment for "maintenance"; like stripping out CSR's which resulted in insurers leaving the markets; like denying Medicaid expansion which puts working people in the Medicaid gap between qualifying for Medicaid and qualifying for subsidies.
These are all actions you guys took to undermine the law. Not because you care about health care, but because you have a compulsion and obsession about tarnishing Obama's legacy because your own legacy looks like a heaping pile of shit.
And what standard are you applying there?
Says who? You? When did you become the constitutional authority? Was it in between not understanding what health insurance is, and not understanding that cutting taxes creates deficits? Seems like you've foisted an entitled position on yourself when no one asked or suggested. So you invent weird standards and then expect those weird standards you invented to be taken seriously. Why should they? Because you really want them to? Get over your privilege.
What do you mean? It is completely equal. Everyone has equal access and rights to these entitlements. That's why they're called entitlements. So I'm not sure what you're getting at, but it seems like a half-assed attempt to make yourself sound more intelligent and thoughtful than you are.
what standard? The Constitution.
Of course i am not. I can just read the document and i understand basic, english terminology.
Equal on everything. Including payments taxes whatever. And we both know damn well that wont happen.
The Democrats had a super majority when they passed Obamacare. They could have done it right. They didn't. They didn't need the Republicans to pass it and the Republicans had absolutely no say about what went into it. And without a single Republican vote in the House or Senate the Democrats own it.
I don't believe for a minute that the Republicans have done a single thing to undermine it. Point out its flaws and the myriad negative consequences as a result of it? Absolutely. That they were elected to do as well as fix it. They put in their rhetoric all right but they have done nothing to fix it though some have probably tried. And they haven't had the super majority that Obama enjoyed. Obamacare is the worst monstrosity ever forced upon the American people. As for what will make it ultimately collapse, read the OP.
Where in the Constitution? No where. You think just regurgitating "the Constitution" is an answer? It's not. You need to show where it says that. Because I've invoked the general welfare clause, and you've invoked...nothing. You just imagine the Constitution says something when it doesn't because you need that validation. You're so insecure in your argument. That's why I keep drilling down.
I disagree with your personal assessment of your own capabilities.
Equal on everything? Ummm...well, everyone does pay an equal Medicare tax rate. And everyone is entitled to the same benefits according to what they paid in. So this is just another example of you making shit up off the top of your head, and thinking that slapdash explanation is a sufficient answer. It isn't. It's an incomplete answer. So you don't even get an "F", you get an "I". And furthermore, a single payer system accomplishes equality because everyone pays the same rate, and every provider is reimbursed at the same rate. So you just kinda walked right into that rhetorical trap, didn't ya?
What was "doing it right"? What does that entail? Please, expand on that thought.
Bullshit. Republicans chose not to participate in it. The bill took over a year from conception to when it was signed into law. Dozens of committee hearings were held. Obama even went to the Republicans in person to listen to their concerns and talk them through what he was proposing. You all chose to not participate, then you whine that you didn't get to participate!
No...you don't get to put that on Democrats. That was you all refusing to participate in the process because you all have no fucking idea what kind of health care system you want. In fact, you were all denying there even was a problem with health care back in 2009-10, despite the sky-high premium increases, the multitude of bankruptcies, and the tens of thousands of preventable deaths.
You fucking crybabies didn't want to participate in it because you were all feeling bad about yourselves for getting your clock cleaned in 2008. And because your legacy is shit, it means you have to tarnish the legacy of others just so you don't have to feel bad about yourselves.
Whiny. Little. Bitches
Of course, now we're finding out that the real reason Conservatives opposed this law is not on any economic or fiscal or compassionate grounds, but because a handful of their wealthiest donors want them to.
Which proves this has never been about health care, only about what a few wealthy Conservatives want.
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