Ten Inconvenient Truths About The National Debt: It's Worse Than You Think...

[eflatminor]

Correct. Not an issue at all. We have no need to pay back this debt. Ever. Why do you think we should?

edit: and by that I mean the Public Debt.

Default is always an option. Is this really your position? You realize that would mean we could never borrow again, which would mean we'd HAVE to live within our means. I'm all for that but doing so by default is really going to piss off those that bought US bonds. How long do you think the global economy would stand if the US defaults?

Pretty radical...

heh heh it would be radical. Which is why I didn't suggest it.

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

 

[The T]

California "taxes business profits" and look what's happening there. The solution all around is small government.

False.

And I'm not suggesting we balance the budget solely on the backs of businesses. I'm merely pointing we can do it, and rather easily. The more fair solution would be slight increases all around, including businesses.

Broaden the tax base.

We'd need to raise about $1,300,000,000,000 in tax revenues ON TOP of the existing taxes...just to balance the budget this year. You think just broadening the base will accomplish that? What tax rates do you propose? Do you not think such tax increases would harm the economy, putting downward pressure on tax revenues?

Easy? Seriously?

Not without serious cuts in Government which isn't in vogue in the District Of Criminals and especially with the Obama Regime, and Statists.

You Can’t Tax the Rich Enough to Close the Deficit

 

[Liability]

I see Pauli is once again copying and pasting. Such fun.

1) When Bush was in office, he set a then record for increasing the debt. When Reagan was in office, he set a then record for increasing the debt. If Romney is elected, he will set a new record for increasing the debt. In short, using non-inflation adjusted numbers to talk about "records" means absolutely nothing.

2) $63T over how long? That's not for one year, 5 years or even 10 years. Dropping large numbers with no time frame is dishonest to the conversation. I've seen that number reported as how much we need over 75 years! Very different from what you're presenting.

3) High debt CAN slow economic growth. If interest rates are high and investors are putting money into savings bonds and not into private companies, that is bad. This is called "crowding out". This is not happening right now as interest rates are at historic lows and will be for a couple more years at least.

4) 24.3 cents, or in other words, 24.3% of GDP. Funny how you now use a measure that is adjusted for inflation and applicable over varying time periods. Why didn't you do that before? Regardless, 24.3%, while higher than our historic average, is not radically high. Reagan had a high of 23.5% and an average of 22%. The first Bush also had an average around 22%.

5) Again, no adjustment for inflation. Why are you jumping back and forth? That's just dishonest. Current interest payments are 1.58% of GDP. In 2022 they would be 3.68%. Higher? Yes. Skyrocketing? No. And, while half go to foreign countries, several of those are our allies: Japan, the UK, Canada; and where does the other half go? Back to U.S. citizens.

6) Absolutely no one is suggesting we balance the budget on the wealthy alone. No one. I assume you only ever talk about this because you don't want to talk about how we could actually balance the budget by taxing business profits. In 2011, U.S. corporations set a new record for profits, some $6.6T. This is after all payroll is met, all expenses paid and all dividends paid. If we raised income taxes on just those businesses by 22.7 percentage points, we would completely eliminate our budget deficit. And that cost could not be passed on to customers, because it is a tax on money after expenses.

So what's your point?

Your choice of copy and paste is 100% inaccurate and our debt level right now is not an issue.

This ^ is one clear example of how we got into this mess and why liberals could never reasonably be trusted to even try to fix it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Default is always an option. Is this really your position? You realize that would mean we could never borrow again, which would mean we'd HAVE to live within our means. I'm all for that but doing so by default is really going to piss off those that bought US bonds. How long do you think the global economy would stand if the US defaults?

Pretty radical...

heh heh it would be radical. Which is why I didn't suggest it.

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

 

[DontBeStupid]

heh heh it would be radical. Which is why I didn't suggest it.

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

They're the ones stupid enough to use savings bonds so the risk is theirs.

 

[DontBeStupid]

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

They're the ones stupid enough to use savings bonds so the risk is theirs.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on this board.

 

[DontBeStupid]

California "taxes business profits" and look what's happening there. The solution all around is small government.

False.

And I'm not suggesting we balance the budget solely on the backs of businesses. I'm merely pointing we can do it, and rather easily. The more fair solution would be slight increases all around, including businesses.

Broaden the tax base.

We'd need to raise about $1,300,000,000,000 in tax revenues ON TOP of the existing taxes...just to balance the budget this year. You think just broadening the base will accomplish that? What tax rates do you propose? Do you not think such tax increases would harm the economy, putting downward pressure on tax revenues?

Easy? Seriously?

I've talked about this before. Rolling back all Bush Tax Rates and the Obama Payroll Holiday will cut the deficit in half. Then, a 10 percentage point increase on taxes from business profits would balance the budget.

If you really feel bad that we owe China some money, cut the Pentagon budget by $100B as is being recommended by the Pentagon. Pay that money to China and we're clear of them in just over a decade.

 

[Darkwind]

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

I will give you just one example why your position is not only frightening, but outright vulgar.

The debt will NOT remain at 16T, it will continue to go up until the point is reached when the INTEREST payments alone exceed the combined economic output of every facet of our country.

That means 100% of every dollar made, by every business, every person, every entity........in other words, the government will have ALL THE MONEY.....and it won't even pay the interests on our debt.

The Debt would not be a problem if it was kept to 1 or 2 percent of GDP. That is somewhat manageable (if, and only if no more debt is added) and easily reduced if needed. However, that would require that we add no new spending, for any reason.

As it stands now, the DEBT, and it will be wholly the DEBT, that will bankrupt this country and it will start by harming the least able to absorb the impact. The retirees.

Great position you've got there Sherlock.

 

[Darkwind]

False.

And I'm not suggesting we balance the budget solely on the backs of businesses. I'm merely pointing we can do it, and rather easily. The more fair solution would be slight increases all around, including businesses.

Broaden the tax base.

We'd need to raise about $1,300,000,000,000 in tax revenues ON TOP of the existing taxes...just to balance the budget this year. You think just broadening the base will accomplish that? What tax rates do you propose? Do you not think such tax increases would harm the economy, putting downward pressure on tax revenues?

Easy? Seriously?

I've talked about this before. Rolling back all Bush Tax Rates and the Obama Payroll Holiday will cut the deficit in half. Then, a 10 percentage point increase on taxes from business profits would balance the budget.

If you really feel bad that we owe China some money, cut the Pentagon budget by $100B as is being recommended by the Pentagon. Pay that money to China and we're clear of them in just over a decade.

Fantasy, not even well written.

 

[DontBeStupid]

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

I will give you just one example why your position is not only frightening, but outright vulgar.

The debt will NOT remain at 16T, it will continue to go up until the point is reached when the INTEREST payments alone exceed the combined economic output of every facet of our country.

That means 100% of every dollar made, by every business, every person, every entity........in other words, the government will have ALL THE MONEY.....and it won't even pay the interests on our debt.

The Debt would not be a problem if it was kept to 1 or 2 percent of GDP. That is somewhat manageable (if, and only if no more debt is added) and easily reduced if needed. However, that would require that we add no new spending, for any reason.

As it stands now, the DEBT, and it will be wholly the DEBT, that will bankrupt this country and it will start by harming the least able to absorb the impact. The retirees.

Great position you've got there Sherlock.

You believe my position is wrong and your proof is that you believe my position is wrong. Wow. Solid work.

As for the interest on the debt, it currently stands at 1.58% of GDP with a prediction that it will grow to 3.68% by 2022. At that rate, it would take 481 years for the interest to grow to equal GDP.

I think we're safe.

 

[DontBeStupid]

We'd need to raise about $1,300,000,000,000 in tax revenues ON TOP of the existing taxes...just to balance the budget this year. You think just broadening the base will accomplish that? What tax rates do you propose? Do you not think such tax increases would harm the economy, putting downward pressure on tax revenues?

Easy? Seriously?

I've talked about this before. Rolling back all Bush Tax Rates and the Obama Payroll Holiday will cut the deficit in half. Then, a 10 percentage point increase on taxes from business profits would balance the budget.

If you really feel bad that we owe China some money, cut the Pentagon budget by $100B as is being recommended by the Pentagon. Pay that money to China and we're clear of them in just over a decade.

Fantasy, not even well written.

Then tell me about your reality. How would you realistically balance the budget? And, would you pay down the debt and how?

 

[The T]

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

I will give you just one example why your position is not only frightening, but outright vulgar.

The debt will NOT remain at 16T, it will continue to go up until the point is reached when the INTEREST payments alone exceed the combined economic output of every facet of our country.

That means 100% of every dollar made, by every business, every person, every entity........in other words, the government will have ALL THE MONEY.....and it won't even pay the interests on our debt.

The Debt would not be a problem if it was kept to 1 or 2 percent of GDP. That is somewhat manageable (if, and only if no more debt is added) and easily reduced if needed. However, that would require that we add no new spending, for any reason.

As it stands now, the DEBT, and it will be wholly the DEBT, that will bankrupt this country and it will start by harming the least able to absorb the impact. The retirees.

Great position you've got there Sherlock.

MYTH #6: The current debt levels can push us into economic calamity.
Fact: The real threat is the projected future debt from entitlement spending.
Over the past 50 years, the public debt has remained at manageable levels, below 50 percent of GDP. The current 38 percent debt ratio does not pose significant risks to the economy. More dangerous is the tsunami of debt coming from the enormous projected costs of paying Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits to 77 million retiring baby boomers. If lawmakers do nothing, those new expenses would be nearly entirely deficit-financed and-according to the Congressional Budget Office-drive the debt ratio to 292 percent by 2050, and 810 percent by 2080 (see Chart 4).[11]


Ten Myths About Budget Deficits and Debt

The feared 'Austerity' by the left that they know is coming.

 

[8537]

Correct. Not an issue at all. We have no need to pay back this debt. Ever. Why do you think we should?

edit: and by that I mean the Public Debt.

Default is always an option. Is this really your position? You realize that would mean we could never borrow again, which would mean we'd HAVE to live within our means. I'm all for that but doing so by default is really going to piss off those that bought US bonds. How long do you think the global economy would stand if the US defaults?

Pretty radical...

And what if the EU defaults? Guess what happens? Dominoes will fall including ours. Matter of when, not if.

The EU default? On whom? Itself?

For those keeping score at home, the EU has a sovereign currency.

 

[The T]

Default is always an option. Is this really your position? You realize that would mean we could never borrow again, which would mean we'd HAVE to live within our means. I'm all for that but doing so by default is really going to piss off those that bought US bonds. How long do you think the global economy would stand if the US defaults?

Pretty radical...

And what if the EU defaults? Guess what happens? Dominoes will fall including ours. Matter of when, not if.

The EU default? On whom? Itself?

For those keeping score at home, the EU has a sovereign currency.

NOT for long.

 

[Full-Auto]

Okay, what did I miss? How is your assertion that we should not pay back our debt not defaulting?

He's saying all we have to do is pay the interest on the debt forever and ever and never pay back the principle.

Only a dimwitcrap would call that sound fiscal policy.

What I'm saying is that if you pay off the entire debt, reduce it to zero, you screw millions of Americans who are using savings bonds as safe investment vehicles. We have $16T in debt today. If we have $16T in debt in 2030, that's not a bad thing and you guys aren't even attempting to show how it would be a bad thing.

I can very easily with one link.

Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

 

[The T]

We'd need to raise about $1,300,000,000,000 in tax revenues ON TOP of the existing taxes...just to balance the budget this year. You think just broadening the base will accomplish that? What tax rates do you propose? Do you not think such tax increases would harm the economy, putting downward pressure on tax revenues?

Easy? Seriously?

I've talked about this before. Rolling back all Bush Tax Rates and the Obama Payroll Holiday will cut the deficit in half. Then, a 10 percentage point increase on taxes from business profits would balance the budget.

If you really feel bad that we owe China some money, cut the Pentagon budget by $100B as is being recommended by the Pentagon. Pay that money to China and we're clear of them in just over a decade.

Fantasy, not even well written.

And as always? CUT the Constitutionally mandated items from the budget like the Military...[yeah thay can be cut some...but not to the point we are weakened in defending ourselves and allies]...

Thier sacred Cows? leave 'em alone.

How about that 'General Welfare Clause' that gave government power for wealth redistribution?

 

[8537]

And what if the EU defaults? Guess what happens? Dominoes will fall including ours. Matter of when, not if.

The EU default? On whom? Itself?

For those keeping score at home, the EU has a sovereign currency.

NOT for long.

The EU is going to move away from sovereign currency?

lol.

 

[paulitician]

Another inconvenient truth, especially for the Obamabots.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U]Senator Obama calls Bush "unpatriotic" for adding trillions to debt www.RightFace.us - YouTube[/ame]

 

[8537]

For those still keeping score at home, actually paying off the national debt would cause a massive and unprecedented economic contraction.