Bull Ring TemplarKormac vs. Wry Catcher on Envy, Rhetoric, and wealth inequality

TemplarKormac

Political Atheist
Mar 30, 2013
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@WryCatcher

This was your quote from the thread "Another Liberal Myth Exploded"

Liberal rhetoric is rooted in hate and envy, that won't end well for them.

Liberal speech and writing is rooted in hope for change, change for the better by pragmatic men and women of good will. Our system of governance is far from perfect, and biases and fears prevent the change necessary if we are to avoid becoming a Plutocratic Dystopia.

Calling liberals envious is one more example of a parrot posting a meme without thought and without a shred of evidence to support this believe (I wonder if those who parrot this meme every put any thought into what they post).

You claim liberals, by your definition, aren't envious. Yet, from the rhetoric, anyone who earns millions of dollars through fair business are manipulative and unsympathetic with the plight of the poor. Anyone who encourages "prosperity" are vilified by said liberals.

Anyone who wants to take someone off of food stamps or welfare and give them a paying job are accused of being unsympathetic to the poor. There are union backed protests demanding $15/hr minimum wages from fast food restaurants, and yet you accused Blues of posting up twisted memes. The one percent versus the 99 percent punchline comes to mind.

There is consistent braying over how Republicans favor the rich and Democrats favor the poor. I was hoping you could address that particular statement. How do Republicans favor the rich? How do Democrats favor the poor? How are Republicans unsympathetic to the poor?

Your insistence on liberals not being envious can be debunked by the support of "a level playing field" or the promotion of inclusion over performance or feeling over competition or outrightly discouraging competition altogether.

In what way does this not reflect envy?

You insisted that "Liberal speech and writing is rooted in hope for change, change for the better by pragmatic men and women of good will," but simply by the insistence of liberal Democrats, they are the only pragmatic men and women of good will. By what good will do you enable apathy among millions of Americans by not encouraging a poor family to strive for a job instead of living off a meager government paycheck each month?

What hope is there in letting them strive for nothing more than government assistance?

What change does this constant flow of government assistance effect?

Defend yourself.

(This thread is open to debate for the named participants at any time period during a 24 hour calendar day)
 
Last edited:
I offer more.

As Blues pointed out, the speech based on "hope of change" includes a great deal of vilification. If you oppose abortion for example, you are branded as someone who hates women, a misogynist, and are thus waging some kind of war against them, another example would be where a woman is rightly criticized in the political arena, but the critic is immediately vilified.

If you oppose affirmative action, or for that matter are for voter ID, against illegal immigration, or criticize the policies of President Obama, you are immediately labeled racist.

The list can go on for gay rights and religion or wealth inequality. This speech, Wry, is nothing more than speech of hate and envy, not of hope and change.

I challenge you to respond.
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.
 
Well now, a quick look at your profile page provides ... nada; no balls, too embarrassed by the body of your work templarkormac? I'm not surprised, just disappointed. Look over mine, a mix of academic posts on real issues, a number of slaps to partisan hacks including a critique of the only rhetoric used by your side of the aisle - the Echo.

There are few, if any, posts by conservatives which are not framed by:

  • Ain't Obama awful (fill in the middle term with any number of RW Whines)
  • All liberals are ... (middle term may be progressives or Democrats)
  • Racism and bigotry
  • I got mine, fuck the rest of you
  • Willfully ignorance
  • Hate and Fear
 
I would think the best approach to a debate is not debating the topics of the debate, but agreeing on a specific issue. Otherwise, there will be no debate.
Based on Templar's desire to debate inequality and Wry's listing of the economy as a topic and as both intertwine, it seems a topic both would like to debate.

I agree.

The disparity in wealth is an issue with broad implications, especially now and will become apparent to more and more of The People as we move closer to the election of 2016. The Supreme Court's 5-4 rulings in FEC v. CU & McCutcheon are in my opinion the death knell for democracy in America.
 
Well now, a quick look at your profile page provides ... nada; no balls, too embarrassed by the body of your work templarkormac? I'm not surprised, just disappointed. Look over mine, a mix of academic posts on real issues, a number of slaps to partisan hacks including a critique of the only rhetoric used by your side of the aisle - the Echo.

There are few, if any, posts by conservatives which are not framed by:

  • Ain't Obama awful (fill in the middle term with any number of RW Whines)
  • All liberals are ... (middle term may be progressives or Democrats)
  • Racism and bigotry
  • I got mine, fuck the rest of you
  • Willfully ignorance
  • Hate and Fear

Thanks to CrusaderFrank for the reminder that I forgot one bullet point, hereby corrected:
  • The Idiot-Gram.
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.

Then you lose this debate. If you can't debate what's put before you, then it's clear to me you can't answer the questions. Run coward.
 
Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.


:eusa_whistle:



Because I am bipolar. I have very violent mood swings. I lock myself in rooms when that happens. There are holes in my bedroom wall that I put there because I didn't want to hurt my grandmother during one of those mood swings. If I were ever to gain employment, I would be a danger to my cohorts and potential customers.

I am taking my safety and that of others into account. A job is not a wise thing for me right now.

And you. If you can't debate, you smear.
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.

Then you lose this debate. If you can't debate what's put before you, then it's clear to me you can't answer the questions. Run coward.

I see, you are taking your ball and running home. I not surprised, it's probably your life script.
 
Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.


:eusa_whistle:



Because I am bipolar. I have very violent mood swings. I lock myself in rooms when that happens. There are holes in my bedroom wall that I put there because I didn't want to hurt my grandmother during one of those mood swings. If I were ever to gain employment, I would be a danger to my cohorts and potential customers.

I am taking my safety and that of others into account. A job is not a wise thing for me right now.

And you. If you can't debate, you smear.

Your claim of victory is funny, if any it is a Pyrrhic one.
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.

Then you lose this debate. If you can't debate what's put before you, then it's clear to me you can't answer the questions. Run coward.

I see, you are taking your ball and running home. I not surprised, it's probably your life script.

I was right about you. You do nothing but cast insults. That's your playbook. You can't debate, you can't be honest. A totally disingenuous character. I'll stay here, you run along home.
 
Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.


:eusa_whistle:



Because I am bipolar. I have very violent mood swings. I lock myself in rooms when that happens. There are holes in my bedroom wall that I put there because I didn't want to hurt my grandmother during one of those mood swings. If I were ever to gain employment, I would be a danger to my cohorts and potential customers.

I am taking my safety and that of others into account. A job is not a wise thing for me right now.

And you. If you can't debate, you smear.

Your claim of victory is funny, if any it is a Pyrrhic one.

Your claim of liberals not being envious is funny. Using fancy words doesn't hide the fact you lost, soundly. You haven't even discussed one of the points I made in the opening post. Are you afraid?
 
You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Pick your poison:
  • The Economy
  • Education in America
  • Legalization of Marijuana
  • The PPACA
  • Gun Control
  • Tax Policy
  • Criminal Justice
  • Social Contract Theory
  • LGBT Rights
  • Voter Suppression v. Voter Fraud
  • Abortion
  • CU v. FEC & McCutcheon

You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.

Then you lose this debate. If you can't debate what's put before you, then it's clear to me you can't answer the questions. Run coward.

I see, you are taking your ball and running home. I not surprised, it's probably your life script.

I was right about you. You do nothing but cast insults. That's your playbook. You can't debate, you can't be honest. A totally disingenuous character. I'll stay here, you run along home.

I am home, I do much more than cast insults, but let me correct you: I don't cast insults, at worst i'm guilty of casting judgments. Judgments based on evidence.

There are a few I harass based on their character flaws; racism, abject partisanship, fatuous comments, idiot-grams, lies, half-truths, innuendos and rumor mongering.

You for example are a simpleton, it is my experience that you have never posted anything sagacious and panoptic. Of course your not alone, on this forum such posts are the rule for conservatives.
 
You can't dictate the course of this debate. You must address the initial position, or forfeit.

Really, you want to debate Envy and Rhetoric? I'm fine with the disparity of wealth, a topic with historical perspective and serious consequences, including some I offered and you rejected.

I'm not going to waste my time on rhetoric or on the current meme of the right wing. As for rhetoric, I suggest you look over my serious responses to issues and then read the comments by the idiot I challenged, or most of yours.

And yeah, I can decide on what issues are important and worthy of debate, and if my opponent is worthy too. I'm going to look over your posts for the past month or so, and see how you stand up.

Then you lose this debate. If you can't debate what's put before you, then it's clear to me you can't answer the questions. Run coward.

I see, you are taking your ball and running home. I not surprised, it's probably your life script.

I was right about you. You do nothing but cast insults. That's your playbook. You can't debate, you can't be honest. A totally disingenuous character. I'll stay here, you run along home.

I am home, I do much more than cast insults, but let me correct you: I don't cast insults, at worst i'm guilty of casting judgments. Judgments based on evidence.

There are a few I harass based on their character flaws; racism, abject partisanship, fatuous comments, idiot-grams, lies, half-truths, innuendos and rumor mongering.

You for example are a simpleton, it is my experience that you have never posted anything sagacious and panoptic. Of course your not alone, on this forum such posts are the rule for conservatives.

Of course, you aren't even trying to address the opening post.

And besides, I don't give one half of a damn about your "judgements." You are melodramatic, and yet nobody is fooled. You guise your lack of a premise with fancy words like "Pyrrhic" "sagacious" or "fatuous." I in fact have been known to debate others well into the night and into the next day. You? You don't last more than a couple of hours before you wither away.

You worry about "abject partisanship" yet "judge" me on the fact I am a conservative. You hypocrite.

You are in no way panoptic. You are myopic. And no, Wry, you are not the arbiter of truth and honesty. Don't delude yourself. You are no judge, you are nothing more than a child dressed in a robe wielding a foam gavel. By the way, you'll have to do better than "idiot grams."

You refuse to acknowledge your own flaws, yet try to point them out in others.

You worry about the fatuity of others comments, but make your own, without addressing the topic.

You worry about racism where none exists.

You worry about "lies" and "half-truths" but tell your own.

You lecture me on sagacity, but lack the wherewithal to debate me honestly.

You worry about spreading rumors, but have no problems furthering them.

You worry too much about others. Physician, heal thyself.
 
Let it be known to all the board, Wry Catcher has lost this bout by Technical (in a debate sense) knockout, by

1) Refusing to address the topic
2) Resorting to insults
3) Trying to change the subject

This fight is over.
 
All right, here's my opening salvo:

"Wealth inequality in the US is at near record levels according to a new study by academics. Over the past three decades, the share of household wealth owned by the top 0.1% has increased from 7% to 22%. For the bottom 90% of families, a combination of rising debt, the collapse of the value of their assets during the financial crisis, and stagnant real wages have led to the erosion of wealth."

The share of wealth owned by the top 0.1% is almost the same as the bottom 90%

(link: US wealth inequality - top 0.1 worth as much as the bottom 90 Business The Guardian

This fact ^^^ coupled with two recent supreme court decision (FEC v. CU & FEC v. McCutcheon spell the Death Knell for democracy in America.
 

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