Bull Ring TemplarKormac vs. Wry Catcher on Envy, Rhetoric, and wealth inequality

[Wry Catcher]

Background on the issue:

A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

 

[Wry Catcher]

A bit more food for thought, and an area where I suspect the real debate will take place:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/26/business/economy/making-sense-of-income-inequality.html?_r=0

Be sure to read the final paragraph.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A panoptic perspective is needed as well as a pragmatic approach to the consequences of the disparity of wealth.

[I'm so sorry to use words which you feel are presumptuous, I will not write down to you, so stay on task and use a dictionary if necessary, and not wander into cavil sidebars]

1. Money in our political process is the greatest threat to our democratic institutions.
2. CU & McCutcheon v. FEC exacerbated and advanced this threat.
3. Human nature cannot be changed, laws can keep the lust for wealth and power under some limited control - Callous Conservatives do not recognize noblesse oblige.
4. Taxes are not inherently evil; greed is not a virtue.
5. A progressive income tax is necessary to partially level the electoral playing field,
6. Notwithstanding the conservative meme, we live in a democratic republic. Citizens' right to vote must be sacrosanct, and all Federal Elections need to be publicly financed; all means of buying the loyalty of a President, Senator or Member of the H. or Rep. must be outlawed.
7. Punishing bribery and defamation does not infringe first amendment rights
8. Elected and appointed officials ought to have the right to sue for defamation.
9. An educated population being necessary to fulfill the ideals of a democratic republic, a fairness doctrine needs to be reinstated.
10. Elections ought to be decided by ideas, not by political assassination, many times funded anonymously by those whose sole purpose is to achieve greater wealth and power.

 

[Wry Catcher]

@WryCatcher

This was your quote from the thread "Another Liberal Myth Exploded"

Liberal rhetoric is rooted in hate and envy, that won't end well for them.

Liberal speech and writing is rooted in hope for change, change for the better by pragmatic men and women of good will. Our system of governance is far from perfect, and biases and fears prevent the change necessary if we are to avoid becoming a Plutocratic Dystopia.

Calling liberals envious is one more example of a parrot posting a meme without thought and without a shred of evidence to support this believe (I wonder if those who parrot this meme every put any thought into what they post).

You claim liberals, by your definition, aren't envious. Yet, from the rhetoric, anyone who earns millions of dollars through fair business are manipulative and unsympathetic with the plight of the poor. Anyone who encourages "prosperity" are vilified by said liberals.

Anyone who wants to take someone off of food stamps or welfare and give them a paying job are accused of being unsympathetic to the poor. There are union backed protests demanding $15/hr minimum wages from fast food restaurants, and yet you accused Blues of posting up twisted memes. The one percent versus the 99 percent punchline comes to mind.

There is consistent braying over how Republicans favor the rich and Democrats favor the poor. I was hoping you could address that particular statement. How do Republicans favor the rich? How do Democrats favor the poor? How are Republicans unsympathetic to the poor?

Your insistence on liberals not being envious can be debunked by the support of "a level playing field" or the promotion of inclusion over performance or feeling over competition or outrightly discouraging competition altogether.

In what way does this not reflect envy?

You insisted that "Liberal speech and writing is rooted in hope for change, change for the better by pragmatic men and women of good will," but simply by the insistence of liberal Democrats, they are the only pragmatic men and women of good will. By what good will do you enable apathy among millions of Americans by not encouraging a poor family to strive for a job instead of living off a meager government paycheck each month?

What hope is there in letting them strive for nothing more than government assistance?

What change does this constant flow of government assistance effect?

Defend yourself.

(This thread is open to debate for the named participants at any time period during a 24 hour calendar day)

First and foremost I never said "Anyone" I always refer to one segment of the Republican/Conservative set with a phrase I coined: Callous Conservative. I don't usually - and if I have I erred - lump all Republicans or all conservatives as the same.

The Republican Party is the party of trickle down theory, efforts to suppress the poor, racial minorities and students from exercising their franchise to vote, via the pretense that million of votes are cast fraudulently.

It supports repealing the estate tax which benefits less than 1% of our population, and eliminating tax credits to the working poor, using the phrase "right to work" as a euphemism for union busting. They support cutting taxes which primarily benefit the investor class and repealing the regulations in concert with the clean air and water act to benefit industrialists.

How can anyone with a straight face lie, and suggest the Republican Party is the Party of the big tent and not one which almost exclusively supports the rich.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The difference between the liberal and progressive movements, and the contemporary conservative movement framed by the Callous Conservatives, are best understood by reviewing the meanings of Social Justice for the former, and Social Darwinism for the latter.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Where oh where has templarkormac gone?

Next article for review:

http://www.economist.com/news/finan...who-are-really-getting-ahead-america-forget-1

The final sentence in this interesting document is worth noting: "Since the fortunes of most entrepreneurs are tied up in the stock of the firms that they found, these shifts hint that America’s biggest fortunes may be starting to have less to do with building businesses, just as Mr Piketty warned."

 

[Wry Catcher]

The incoherence of a conservative's brain is really so damned basic sometimes.

How can a thinking person not have the ability to seperate "wealth gap too large = bad future for country" with "wealth envy."

The two can be and typically ARE mutually exclusive ideas.

The "you envy the rich" meme is the toddler's way of avoiding the issue and pretending the onus and unintelligence is on the other party, whereas the mere COMMENT proves that theyre really very lost on the issue because they cant seperate those two ideas in their mind.....so therefore in their mind.....concern with the wealth gap is equivalent to envying the rich.

I hate to say this but its a long standing pattern, man. Conservatives seem to be very surface level thinkers who are not bright enough at all to do nuance. They cannot understand it, its a mental block of some sort

And gob job about my views all you want to, but im not a liberal, either.

I believe there is a difference between being a liberal and holding to liberal principles, and not being stuck in the Libertarian Box; I also believe that those self proclaimed conservatives are at best confused, and most have adopted a rigid ideology which is bizarre and may times hypocritical, as well as providing evidence that your statement is spot on - they are surface thinkers unable or unwilling (the willfully ignorant I call them) to challenge the dogma they have adopted as The Truth.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Koch brothers’ political machine is expanding into new states and recruiting new donors as it seeks to shape the Republican Party — and its presidential field — headed into 2016, according to interviews with multiple sources, as well as confidential donor briefing documents obtained by POLITICO.

Read more: Secret Koch memo outlines plans for 2016 - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO


"Top officials in the Koch brothers' political organization Monday released a staggering $889 million budget to fund the activities of the billionaires' sprawling network ahead of the 2016 presidential contest....


"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles. The spending, unrivaled for an outside organization, represents more than double the nearly $400 million the Republican National Committee (RNC) raised and spent during the 2012 presidential election cycle."

Full article here: Koch brothers set 889 million budget for 2016


IMO, this effort by members of the 0.01% is nothing less than a bloodless coup, and if it succeeds it will put the last nail into the coffin of Democracy in America. No longer can it be denied that we are a Plutocracy and that every man, woman and child will be at the mercy of this new Aristocracy and the Oligarchy of the power elite.

Defend this templarkormac, if you can!

 

[Wry Catcher]

Methinks this is an important issue for the Politics Forum, since the cowardly opponent has cut and run, and no reasonable rebuttal has been posted by another. Not that I expected a reasonable response from templarkormac, who has shown his true colors:
YELLOW

 

[TemplarKormac]

You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Where did I go? I left, simply because you publicly stated you wouldn't debate "talking points." That was basically a forfeit.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Where did I go? I left, simply because you publicly stated you wouldn't debate "talking points." That was basically a forfeit.

LOL, you really are a POS. Post the actual thread and post where this quote, if it is, came from. It was not in the thread you ran away from.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

Where did I go? I left, simply because you publicly stated you wouldn't debate "talking points." That was basically a forfeit.

LOL, you really are a POS. Post the actual thread and post where this quote, if it is, came from. It was not in the thread you ran away from.

That quote came from this very thread, you lying filth. Don't you dare feign ignorance with me. Your subpar liberal intelligence isn't going to save you now.

Bull Ring - TemplarKormac vs. Wry Catcher on Envy Rhetoric and wealth inequality US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You guys having fun with your little circle jerk. I'll debate an issue with anyone on the right. An issue, not a talking point.

And that's that. It was in this very thread that you made the above declaration. You preceded to make a list of what you wanted to debate, and made zero attempt to debate or even address the opening post.

You will see nothing but this quote each and every time you launch your hollow protests. You made your intentions clear, and I had better things to do with my time. You tried to stifle debate with your declaration of "I'll debate what I tell you to debate." You don't get to dictate discourse on threads.

That's not how it works. You'll debate what's put before you, or you lose. It's that simple, skater.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Let's stick with the Bull Ring rules, guys.

For reference:
PLEASE READ The Bull Ring Guidelines Rules US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Wry Catcher]

Food for thought ^^^