drsmith1072
Senior Member
- Jul 30, 2009
- 6,031
- 250
- 48
The tea partyers are a group with a vision. No plan, but a vision. Very much like the war porotesters of the 60's. They had a vision, but no plan. They wanted peace, but had no plan to acheive it for South Vietnam. They wanted peace, but no plan to stop the spread of communism nto a country that did not want it.
I certainly did not hold their vision without a plan against them and I certainly do not hold it against the tea partyers to have a vision without a plan.
I hold Bush responsible for asking copngress for approval to go into Iraq without a sound plan and I hold congress responsible for approving the move.
I hold Obama responsible for his executive order and CAMPAIGN PROMISE to close GITMO without a plan and I hold him repsonsible for his CAMPAIGN PROMISE to leave Iraq in 6 months without a plan.
Being an american citizen and preaching your vision without a plan is what America is all about.
Being an elected official and making promises and sometimes acting without a plan is inexcusable.
As fopr being a force to be reckoned with? They most certainly are. It is THEIR vision that has many politicians trying to come up with a plan to campaign with.
Very much like it was the vision of the left who prompted Obama to camapaign with the mantras of change.
I just hope that our next President has a valid plan and not just a promise to meet the vision of the electorate.
So are you trying to compare the tea partiers to what the right has referrred to as a bunch of long haired hippies among other things as if that is a positive light to be put in based on right wing history? that was a joke btw. The war protesters wanted to end the war and had a pretty clear message where as the tea party seems to be a jumbled bunch of different groups some with different astroturf enhanced agendas with no clear vison or message that a large portion of them haven't contradicted at some point or another as they rush to be critical of obama and the left.
My point was to merely point out how you saw no plans on the left but didn't seem to notice the lack of planning when the right was the side without the clear plan. Although you do concende that bush was wrong on iraq I just wish that more of the right did back when he chose to push the issue. The left, afraid of being protrayed as un-American or unpatriotic for not supporting the invasion lost their back bone but should have stood up at the time, for their cowardice and lack of integrity I find them to blame to. Too many movements with not enough questions under W from either side.
Furthermore, it seems to me that obama had a plan for moving the prisoners to US prisons and send them to court until the right threw a fit and used scare tactics and fear to turn people against it. He had a plan so to claim that he didn't was wrong.
To me a FORCE should have a unifying singular resounding message and IMO the tea party doesn't have that and that is why politicians who are trying to cater to them are having such a hard time coming up with a campaign for them.
I mean they have taxes as a kind of core issue that is surrounded by so much else but it's kind of hard to rail against taxes when bush's taxcuts are still enacted and not doing what they are supposed to do even as the right and tea party demand more tax cuts on top of the bush tax cuts.
Did not ignore. I am working and had no time to respond.
The "long haired hippies" had a vision not a plan...just like the "teabaggers. You see the tea bagger vision as jumbled; I see it as pretty clear. Lower taxes, smaller government control over our lives. A plan? No. Likely not possible to acheive it. But a vision and one they are allowed to have.
To blame the right for the scare tactics as it pertains to GITMO is not fair. Many do not like the idea of trying them in US civil courts. And besides, if Obama did not anticipate the resistance to his plan, then his plan was not a viable one.
Let me explain something to you. I am not a Government fan be it GOP or DEM. I think they are all in it for their party and not in it for the good of the people. I am a conservative with true conservative values. I believe I have no right to tell you how to live and you have no right to tell me how to live. I am against abortion and I am against you being told you can not abort if you choose. I am not interested in marrying another man, but I am not against you haveing the right to marry another man. I LOVE girl on girl porn....but I digress.
I do not appreciate Obama's ideology. But I live with it as he is my President. I do not appreciate his approach. He seems to play with words to give a message that allows him to later say "he never said that" when the message fails. He is constantly ridiculing the "other side" when, to be frank, I dont give a crap about the other side.
I voted for Bush tghe first time around. He did not get my vote the second time around. I did not see him as the leader I believed we needed and I do not see Obama as the leader we need as well.
But all that bveing said...I admire Cindy Sheehan as she sacrificed her reputation for her convictions. I admired the long haired hippy freaks. I admire the tea party.
Our politicians should spend more time learning from them than the time they spend admonishing them.
I usually wait a day before accusing someone of ignoring my posts that is unless of course they post after it and never respond to it then it's pretty obvious.
My problem with the tea party message is that sometimes in order to be critical of obama they sometimes can appear to be somewhat contradictory. Such as demands for smaller government/anti socialism and then demanding that obama step in take control over BP, confiscate tankers to suck the oil off the surface, and a few others things that seem contradictory to a smaller government and as they refer to him as a socialist for not doing that much in his past concerning private business.
Unfortunately I will have to disagree becuase the resistance was propagated by foxnews as they ran stories on it almost constantly and i am sure obama anticipated resistance just not what was thrown at him. However, the fact remains that he had a plan it was just blocked and IMO not recieved well due to fearmongering
So are you more of a live and let live libertarian? Personally, I believe that as an individual you have the right to do as you please as long as you don't violate someone else's right to do the same.
As for obama's ideology I don't think he was given half the chance that W was given. Obama was being attacked and blamed even before he was in office. Yes there were a few who attacked W but the entire republican party has been standing in his way obstructing the whole time. As it is now they seem to wish to maintain the status quo in the hopes that where we are will lead them back to power and to me that is inescusable and is definitely putting party first.
They claim he needs to come to them, he does, some of what they wanted is added and they still vote no as a block and in one instance they voted no against a bill that they co-sponsored jus to keep anything from getting done. In that respect the other side is to blame since nothing or at least very little is getting done because of their tactics.
I did not vote for bush either time (shocking, i know) but that didn't stop me from admonishing those of my own party when they flip flopped or changed their position out of political expediency which is what i do when republcians do the same now.
However, if they do or say something stupid, contradictory or wrong then they should be admonished just as our politicians should. LOL