Taxpayers to Foot Kwanzaa Bill

[William Joyce]

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/12/win_for_kwanzaa.php

Doesn't this violate separation of church and state?

 

[tigerbob]

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/12/win_for_kwanzaa.php

Doesn't this violate separation of church and state?

If you believe Kwanzaa to be a religious celebration then yes it does.

 

[maineman]

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/12/win_for_kwanzaa.php

Doesn't this violate separation of church and state?

kwanzaa is a celebration of african culture, not african religion.

 

[tigerbob]

kwanzaa is a celebration of african culture, not african religion.

A number of years ago, I used to work on Chevy's diversity advertising account, and I don't recall any part of the Kwanzaa activity (which was around Christmas) that had anything to do with religion.

At least, that was the way it was explained to me by the Art Director and Copywriter who were responsible for developing the creative work - 2 great guys whose opinion I would readily accept.

 

[Gunny]

kwanzaa is a celebration of african culture, not african religion.

And if whites wished to celebrate their culture?

Hint: it would be called a Klan revival.

 

[Annie]

And if whites wished to celebrate their culture?

Hint: it would be called a Klan revival.

I can't see any reason they should have more than a 'parade' and the like. Even in Chicago that's all the Irish or Italians, or gays, etc. get.

 

[tigerbob]

And if whites wished to celebrate their culture?

Hint: it would be called a Klan revival.

I'm not sure what culture whites (as an ethnic group) have. I don't view myself as having that much in common with the French or Germans other than geographic proximity. Ask a Scot or Irishman what he has in common with an Englishman and I suspect you'd have to wait for the laughter to end before you get an answer.

It's an interesting point you raise however. My avatar is the St. George's Cross - the national flag of England. By some people, this is viewed as religiously associated imagery, possibly because of historical links with Christianity and the Crusades of the 12th and 13th centuries. Others view it as aggressively nationalistic or racist, pehaps due to its adoption by football (soccer) fans and the hooligan baggage that that carries, or its use by the British National Party. It has also been - surprise, surprise - associated with the KKK.

To me, it's a celebration of my heritage, to others a symbol of intolerance or persecution.

In America, I guess the two primary celebrations of American heritage are Independence Day and Thanksgiving. But these are more about the heritage of the country than the heritage of Americans who happen to be white. As white Americans come from pretty much all over the place, I wonder what common link they have, other that their American-ness.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

African Blacks have no common links other than skin color, You think there are a few nations in Europe, there are a LOT more tribes and clans in Africa and most like to KILL each other.

If American Blacks are similar just because of skin color ( and nope slavery doesn't count it was done and over 150 years ago) then I guess American whites can celebrate something just because of skin color ( ohh and there are numerous "white" American groups that were slaves as well) And of course where is that National Chinese holiday they were abused after slavery passed.

 

[maineman]

the initial post in this thread asked a question. I think it has been answered.

 

[tigerbob]

African Blacks have no common links other than skin color, You think there are a few nations in Europe, there are a LOT more tribes and clans in Africa and most like to KILL each other.

If American Blacks are similar just because of skin color ( and nope slavery doesn't count it was done and over 150 years ago) then I guess American whites can celebrate something just because of skin color ( ohh and there are numerous "white" American groups that were slaves as well) And of course where is that National Chinese holiday they were abused after slavery passed.

But most African Americans don't kill each other because one was from Ghana and the other Zimbabwe, or whatever. Many have found cultural commonalities (and I've always found culture and history to be heavily intertwined, so it doesn't really matter whether something happened 150 years ago, or 300 years ago). America traces it's culture back to the pilgrim fathers every Thanksgiving. Should that not matter because it was so long ago?

Many African Americans have found some common cultural ground that they celebrate. Surely there's nothing wrong with that just as there shouldn't be anything wrong with whites celebrating some common point of cultural significance.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

But most African Americans don't kill each other because one was from Ghana and the other Zimbabwe, or whatever. Many have found cultural commonalities (and I've always found culture and history to be heavily intertwined, so it doesn't really matter whether something happened 150 years ago, or 300 years ago). America traces it's culture back to the pilgrim fathers every Thanksgiving. Should that not matter because it was so long ago?

Many African Americans have found some common cultural ground that they celebrate. Surely there's nothing wrong with that just as there shouldn't be anything wrong with whites celebrating some common point of cultural significance.

Go ahead, create a "white" Celebration and see what that gets you. The first thing will be being labeled a racist, a bigot and a supremest. From there it is ALL down hill.

I don't have any problem with Kawanza, but the Government should NOT be paying for it, non religious or not. Well unless the majority of the VOTERS actually vote to pay for it. The celebration meets the definition of racist itself, it is a black only celebration designed and intended JUST for blacks.

 

[maineman]

I wonder who pays for all of the citiy services that get gobbled up each year in NYC for the St. Patrick's Day parade?

 

[tigerbob]

Go ahead, create a "white" Celebration and see what that gets you. The first thing will be being labeled a racist, a bigot and a supremest. From there it is ALL down hill.

I don't have any problem with Kawanza, but the Government should NOT be paying for it, non religious or not. Well unless the majority of the VOTERS actually vote to pay for it. The celebration meets the definition of racist itself, it is a black only celebration designed and intended JUST for blacks.

As I said earlier, I'm not sure that whites would have that much specifically in common to celebrate, so I was hoping someone else might provide a suggestion. I'm certainly not going to, but trying to find out what we do have in common might be an interesting discussion. I guess the closest I could come to a common unifying theme would be democratic principles, but it's not something I've given much thought to.

As to Kwanzaa, I broadly agree that it should not be funded by the Government.

 

[Shogun]

are all whites irish?

 

[tigerbob]

I wonder who pays for all of the citiy services that get gobbled up each year in NYC for the St. Patrick's Day parade?

I'd imagine that it's chalked up as an expense for the promotion of tourism and commerce.

 

[Annie]

I'd imagine that it's chalked up as an expense for the promotion of tourism and commerce.

If it's anything like Chicago, the different associations do the floats. The city pays for police and traffic. considering the throngs that come, they more than pay for it in taxes on food, drink, shopping.

 

[Gunny]

I'm not sure what culture whites (as an ethnic group) have. I don't view myself as having that much in common with the French or Germans other than geographic proximity. Ask a Scot or Irishman what he has in common with an Englishman and I suspect you'd have to wait for the laughter to end before you get an answer.

It's an interesting point you raise however. My avatar is the St. George's Cross - the national flag of England. By some people, this is viewed as religiously associated imagery, possibly because of historical links with Christianity and the Crusades of the 12th and 13th centuries. Others view it as aggressively nationalistic or racist, pehaps due to its adoption by football (soccer) fans and the hooligan baggage that that carries, or its use by the British National Party. It has also been - surprise, surprise - associated with the KKK.

To me, it's a celebration of my heritage, to others a symbol of intolerance or persecution.

In America, I guess the two primary celebrations of American heritage are Independence Day and Thanksgiving. But these are more about the heritage of the country than the heritage of Americans who happen to be white. As white Americans come from pretty much all over the place, I wonder what common link they have, other that their American-ness.

Being of Scot descent, you have a good point, Englishman (jerk).

My argument was merely a speculative generality. The double standard is obvious. Just like to point it out every now and again.

 

[William Joyce]

As white Americans come from pretty much all over the place, I wonder what common link they have, other that their American-ness.

A genetic core.

 

[tigerbob]

A genetic core.

How uninspiring.

 

[William Joyce]

How uninspiring.

Put that way, yes. But it's the evolutionary explanation for the big drivers of human history. If your heart pounds at the sight of ten thousand warriors on horses massing under St. George's cross and getting ready to fuck shit up, that's your genes screaming, "Yo, those are my homies."