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WTF, black marketers aren't going to pay the tax. How would you do it? 23% on top of the price of the item is a big chunk. Avoiding that tax would be a cottage industry. It assumes that people will willingly pay the tax because it's "fair". Nothing would be further from the truth. You'd get less than expected. Enforcement costs would be astronomical and when you try to raise the tax, today's revolt would look like a love fest.
What kind of items do you expect to be buying in this black market? Groceries? Big screen TVs? You think Best Buy is going to go along with avoiding sales tax, for you?
Who decides what constitutes "significant support"?...The rermocrats and depublicans, that's who.What would be so difficult about an even split? Who could fuck that up? If people are that stupid, there's really no hope for your plan either.
An "even split" presumes that only the remocrats and depublicans would be worthy of having their campaigns funded....Such a move would in fact be the end of any third party or independent candidacies.
If asking who could fuck that up doesn't expose your utter naïveté, nothing does.
Who said anything about just Rs and Ds? Anyone showing significant support, could get funds. It would require sub-primaries to determine those who'd get funds for the party primaries and any Is or 3rd parties that are getting support. What's significant support? I'd say 10%, but that's something that could be worked out. IMO, it's not only an integrity question, but also a money saving measure, since our representitives wouldn't have as many expensive promises to keep.
You know what they say about assuming!
Why would there be? With all other taxes eliminated, the wealthy would have more disposable income.
Do you really not understand the idea of competition?
Do you really think that rich men are not frugal with there money?
If they can purchase a used vessel for $3.46 million that has more amenities than a brand new yacht costing $3 million plus sales tax for a total of $3.46 million they're simply going to buy the used vessel. New yacht dealers will have to adjust their sales price to whatever the market will bear.
If I can buy a used vessel for $3.25 million dollars that is the same vessel as the new one maybe a year older that is going for $3 million plus tax, I'm going to buy the used vessel and not pay the tax and save money. It's really not all that difficult to understand.
Immie
You are forgetting the guy who owns the used yacht paid sales tax on it when HE bought it. So he is going to want to recoup that sales tax when he sells it and will add it onto the used price. The gap between used and new will be exactly the same as it is now.
WTF, black marketers aren't going to pay the tax. How would you do it? 23% on top of the price of the item is a big chunk. Avoiding that tax would be a cottage industry. It assumes that people will willingly pay the tax because it's "fair". Nothing would be further from the truth. You'd get less than expected. Enforcement costs would be astronomical and when you try to raise the tax, today's revolt would look like a love fest.
What kind of items do you expect to be buying in this black market? Groceries? Big screen TVs? You think Best Buy is going to go along with avoiding sales tax, for you?
Maybe not, but they'd lose out to those who do. Also, it would destroy used car dealerships. Who's going to pay 23%, when you can do a private sale? Even today at 5% people make up bills of sale for less than the actual amount, so that when you go to register the car, you don't have to pay as much sales tax. Just think what would happen at 23%, no one would go to a dealer required to report the full amount.
What kind of items do you expect to be buying in this black market? Groceries? Big screen TVs? You think Best Buy is going to go along with avoiding sales tax, for you?
Maybe not, but they'd lose out to those who do. Also, it would destroy used car dealerships. Who's going to pay 23%, when you can do a private sale? Even today at 5% people make up bills of sale for less than the actual amount, so that when you go to register the car, you don't have to pay as much sales tax. Just think what would happen at 23%, no one would go to a dealer required to report the full amount.
Really? You think so? What is the matter with people? Do you guys not understand the idea of capitalism and price setting? The used car dealership is not going to go out of business. At the worse, they will have to adjust their pricing scheme to what the market will bear, which is exactly what everyone else who has a car for sale will have to do.
I have an idea konradv, you are obviously interested in this subject, why don't you actually try reading about it a little bit rather than just trying to shoot holes in it? It may not be perfect, it is, however, a lot better than the fiasco we have now.
Americans For Fair Taxation:
Immie
Maybe not, but they'd lose out to those who do. Also, it would destroy used car dealerships. Who's going to pay 23%, when you can do a private sale? Even today at 5% people make up bills of sale for less than the actual amount, so that when you go to register the car, you don't have to pay as much sales tax. Just think what would happen at 23%, no one would go to a dealer required to report the full amount.
Really? You think so? What is the matter with people? Do you guys not understand the idea of capitalism and price setting? The used car dealership is not going to go out of business. At the worse, they will have to adjust their pricing scheme to what the market will bear, which is exactly what everyone else who has a car for sale will have to do.
I have an idea konradv, you are obviously interested in this subject, why don't you actually try reading about it a little bit rather than just trying to shoot holes in it? It may not be perfect, it is, however, a lot better than the fiasco we have now.
Americans For Fair Taxation:
Immie
I think you're engaged in wishful thinking. Do you think people will stop avoiding taxes, just because it's been declared to be lower overall and "fairer"? No, they're going to be saying "WTF 23%!" You and what I'm assuming are the libertarians pushing this scheme don't seem to have a handle on human nature. So, instead of the IRS checking our yearly income, now we're going to need an even bigger beaurocracy to check sales all around the country. If you think people don't like the government knowing what they're earning, what are people going to think when the goverenment starts checking on everything you're buying? Moralists may like it, since it would probably send the porn industry way underground.
What would be so difficult about an even split? Who could fuck that up? If people are that stupid, there's really no hope for your plan either.
An "even split" presumes that only the remocrats and depublicans would be worthy of having their campaigns funded....Such a move would in fact be the end of any third party or independent candidacies.
If asking who could fuck that up doesn't expose your utter naïveté, nothing does.
Who said anything about just Rs and Ds? Anyone showing significant support, could get funds. It would require sub-primaries to determine those who'd get funds for the party primaries and any Is or 3rd parties that are getting support. What's significant support? I'd say 10%, but that's something that could be worked out. IMO, it's not only an integrity question, but also a money saving measure, since our representitives wouldn't have as many expensive promises to keep.
You know what they say about assuming!
WTF, black marketers aren't going to pay the tax. How would you do it? 23% on top of the price of the item is a big chunk. Avoiding that tax would be a cottage industry. It assumes that people will willingly pay the tax because it's "fair". Nothing would be further from the truth. You'd get less than expected. Enforcement costs would be astronomical and when you try to raise the tax, today's revolt would look like a love fest.
What kind of items do you expect to be buying in this black market? Groceries? Big screen TVs? You think Best Buy is going to go along with avoiding sales tax, for you?
An "even split" presumes that only the remocrats and depublicans would be worthy of having their campaigns funded....Such a move would in fact be the end of any third party or independent candidacies.
If asking who could fuck that up doesn't expose your utter naïveté, nothing does.
Who said anything about just Rs and Ds? Anyone showing significant support, could get funds. It would require sub-primaries to determine those who'd get funds for the party primaries and any Is or 3rd parties that are getting support. What's significant support? I'd say 10%, but that's something that could be worked out. IMO, it's not only an integrity question, but also a money saving measure, since our representitives wouldn't have as many expensive promises to keep.
You know what they say about assuming!
Define significant. CNN defined significant as anyone who polled higher than 2% in their polls before they allowed them into the debate, then left Gary Johnson out of their polls.
Really? You think so? What is the matter with people? Do you guys not understand the idea of capitalism and price setting? The used car dealership is not going to go out of business. At the worse, they will have to adjust their pricing scheme to what the market will bear, which is exactly what everyone else who has a car for sale will have to do.
I have an idea konradv, you are obviously interested in this subject, why don't you actually try reading about it a little bit rather than just trying to shoot holes in it? It may not be perfect, it is, however, a lot better than the fiasco we have now.
Americans For Fair Taxation:
Immie
I think you're engaged in wishful thinking. Do you think people will stop avoiding taxes, just because it's been declared to be lower overall and "fairer"? No, they're going to be saying "WTF 23%!" You and what I'm assuming are the libertarians pushing this scheme don't seem to have a handle on human nature. So, instead of the IRS checking our yearly income, now we're going to need an even bigger beaurocracy to check sales all around the country. If you think people don't like the government knowing what they're earning, what are people going to think when the goverenment starts checking on everything you're buying? Moralists may like it, since it would probably send the porn industry way underground.
I think you don't want to think reasonably and your only goal is to shoot holes in something that you hate because it is not backed by liberals.
Under the fair tax you won't be able to avoid taxes to any significant extent. If you purchase anything at all from a legal place of business you will pay your taxes.
Are you really stupid enough to think that suddenly there will be hundreds of billions of dollars of transactions on the black market to buy things like golf balls and save $.37? People are not going to seek out black market theives to buy their products, for one reason is simple convenience not to mention the fact that eventually those black marketers will be caught and you might just go down with them.
You going to risk that to save $5.18 on a trip to the grocery store?
Immie
I think you're engaged in wishful thinking. Do you think people will stop avoiding taxes, just because it's been declared to be lower overall and "fairer"? No, they're going to be saying "WTF 23%!" You and what I'm assuming are the libertarians pushing this scheme don't seem to have a handle on human nature. So, instead of the IRS checking our yearly income, now we're going to need an even bigger beaurocracy to check sales all around the country. If you think people don't like the government knowing what they're earning, what are people going to think when the goverenment starts checking on everything you're buying? Moralists may like it, since it would probably send the porn industry way underground.
I think you don't want to think reasonably and your only goal is to shoot holes in something that you hate because it is not backed by liberals.
Under the fair tax you won't be able to avoid taxes to any significant extent. If you purchase anything at all from a legal place of business you will pay your taxes.
Are you really stupid enough to think that suddenly there will be hundreds of billions of dollars of transactions on the black market to buy things like golf balls and save $.37? People are not going to seek out black market theives to buy their products, for one reason is simple convenience not to mention the fact that eventually those black marketers will be caught and you might just go down with them.
You going to risk that to save $5.18 on a trip to the grocery store?
Immie
If a used car costs $10,000, who's going to want to pay another $2,300 on top of that? My prediction is that the plan would realize much less revenue than predicted and allow the black market to flourish. I'm not stupid, but resorting to "poisoning the well" because you don't have a good response to my anaysis, is. I don't bash it because I'm liberal, but because it doesn't pass the smell test. People don't like paying taxes, regardless of the rate. Even when the income tax was below 10%, it had to be taken out of paychecks or the government would never get most of it. The same thing would happen in spades at 23%. All sorts of scams would be employed and investigaors would be overwhelmed, requiring a beaurocracy that dwarfs the IRS, just to keep up.
WTF, black marketers aren't going to pay the tax. How would you do it? 23% on top of the price of the item is a big chunk. Avoiding that tax would be a cottage industry. It assumes that people will willingly pay the tax because it's "fair". Nothing would be further from the truth. You'd get less than expected. Enforcement costs would be astronomical and when you try to raise the tax, today's revolt would look like a love fest.
What kind of items do you expect to be buying in this black market? Groceries? Big screen TVs? You think Best Buy is going to go along with avoiding sales tax, for you?
Do you have any idea how often trucks get hijacked or something just falls off the back of them? Make the tax to burdensome and it will happen more often, If people want something someone will figure out a way to get it.
I think you don't want to think reasonably and your only goal is to shoot holes in something that you hate because it is not backed by liberals.
Under the fair tax you won't be able to avoid taxes to any significant extent. If you purchase anything at all from a legal place of business you will pay your taxes.
Are you really stupid enough to think that suddenly there will be hundreds of billions of dollars of transactions on the black market to buy things like golf balls and save $.37? People are not going to seek out black market theives to buy their products, for one reason is simple convenience not to mention the fact that eventually those black marketers will be caught and you might just go down with them.
You going to risk that to save $5.18 on a trip to the grocery store?
Immie
If a used car costs $10,000, who's going to want to pay another $2,300 on top of that? My prediction is that the plan would realize much less revenue than predicted and allow the black market to flourish. I'm not stupid, but resorting to "poisoning the well" because you don't have a good response to my anaysis, is. I don't bash it because I'm liberal, but because it doesn't pass the smell test. People don't like paying taxes, regardless of the rate. Even when the income tax was below 10%, it had to be taken out of paychecks or the government would never get most of it. The same thing would happen in spades at 23%. All sorts of scams would be employed and investigaors would be overwhelmed, requiring a beaurocracy that dwarfs the IRS, just to keep up.
Might I suggest some Vick's Menthalatum to clear up your sinus condition?
Immie
If a used car costs $10,000, who's going to want to pay another $2,300 on top of that? My prediction is that the plan would realize much less revenue than predicted and allow the black market to flourish. I'm not stupid, but resorting to "poisoning the well" because you don't have a good response to my anaysis, is. I don't bash it because I'm liberal, but because it doesn't pass the smell test. People don't like paying taxes, regardless of the rate. Even when the income tax was below 10%, it had to be taken out of paychecks or the government would never get most of it. The same thing would happen in spades at 23%. All sorts of scams would be employed and investigaors would be overwhelmed, requiring a beaurocracy that dwarfs the IRS, just to keep up.
Might I suggest some Vick's Menthalatum to clear up your sinus condition?
Immie
I guess you're just too smart for me. And here I thought libertarians were just arrogant. They obviously have some secret plan to change human nature. So did Stalin!
Who said anything about just Rs and Ds? Anyone showing significant support, could get funds. It would require sub-primaries to determine those who'd get funds for the party primaries and any Is or 3rd parties that are getting support. What's significant support? I'd say 10%, but that's something that could be worked out. IMO, it's not only an integrity question, but also a money saving measure, since our representitives wouldn't have as many expensive promises to keep.
You know what they say about assuming!
Define significant. CNN defined significant as anyone who polled higher than 2% in their polls before they allowed them into the debate, then left Gary Johnson out of their polls.
That would be set by law. What CNN did is irrelevant.
Define significant. CNN defined significant as anyone who polled higher than 2% in their polls before they allowed them into the debate, then left Gary Johnson out of their polls.
That would be set by law. What CNN did is irrelevant.
Set by law? In other words, it would be determined by the same people that banned a move about a presidential candidate because it was embarrassing. How do you feel being completely wrong.
Might I suggest some Vick's Menthalatum to clear up your sinus condition?
Immie
I guess you're just too smart for me. And here I thought libertarians were just arrogant. They obviously have some secret plan to change human nature. So did Stalin!
I'm not a libertarian. I kind of understand many of the points they make.
I'm not a full blown conservative. I tend to side with conservatives on many issues. What I despise about conservatives is their "holier than thou attitudes". I despise their stance on helping the needy and claiming that the churck will handle all of that.
I'm not a liberal either. I tend to side with liberals on many issues i.e. welfare. Liberals claim to be tolerant, yet they are not. Liberals don't care about other people's rights. The only rights a liberal cares about is their own.
And if you can't take a little bit of kidding at the end of a discussion, well, I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.
Immie
That would be set by law. What CNN did is irrelevant.
Set by law? In other words, it would be determined by the same people that banned a move about a presidential candidate because it was embarrassing. How do you feel being completely wrong.
It would be determined by a law, not people. Your movie reference is also irrelevant.
