Taxation is Theft

[LiberalMedia]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

 

[LiberalMedia]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

This post and the article you link to are accurate and good. I wish I could thank you for them, but due to the "No Thanking of Thanks-Misers" of the USMB Bureau of Thanks Subsidies, I am unable to. I shall rep you for it instead. I especially liked this selection of your link:

So instead of seeing paying taxes as analogous to being mugged by the government, we ought to think of these payments more like the tithing that many people do in their churches and synagogues. Most people see these regular donations as a charitable contribution to the good works being done by these religious organizations – and they certainly don’t resent these contributions. But if the government is also an institution dedicated in large part to doing good works – to promoting the public interest – then we should not resent our taxes contributing to those governmental activities. In fact, we should feel good about all the good our tax dollars are doing – just as we feel good about all the good our religious donations do.

The sooner right-wing nutjobs realize that government is a sound replacement for their backwards, archaic religions, the better.

 

[g5000]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

Repeal Obamacare...AND THEN WHAT?

They just don't get that part.

In the United States, as soon as a party has become dominant, all public authority passes into its hands; its private supporters occupy all the offices and have all the force of the administration at their disposal. As the most distinguished members of the opposite party cannot surmount the barrier that excludes them from power, they must establish themselves outside of it and oppose the whole moral authority of the minority to the physical power that domineers over it. Thus a dangerous expedient is used to obviate a still more formidable danger.

Good stuff.

The difference that exists in this respect between Americans and Europeans depends on several causes. In Europe there are parties which differ so much from the majority that they can never hope to acquire its support, and yet they think they are strong enough in themselves to contend against it. When a party of this kind forms an association, its object is not to convince, but to fight.

^^
Sadly, this is what we have descended to in the present day.

The way it used to be:

In America the individuals who hold opinions much opposed to those of the majority can do nothing against it, and all other parties hope to win it over to their own principles. The exercise of the right of association becomes dangerous, then, in proportion as great parties find themselves wholly unable to acquire the majority. In a country like the United States, in which the differences of opinion are mere differences of hue, the right of association may remain unrestrained without evil consequences. Our inexperience of liberty leads us to regard the liberty of association only as a right of attacking the government. The first notion that presents itself to a party, as well as to an individual, when it has acquired a consciousness of its own strength is that of violence; the notion of persuasion arises at a later period, and is derived from experience. The English, who are divided into parties which differ essentially from each other, rarely abuse the right of association because they have long been accustomed to exercise it. In France the passion for war is so intense that there is no undertaking so mad, or so injurious to the welfare of the state that a man does not consider himself honored in defending it at the risk of his life.

But perhaps the most powerful of the causes that tend to mitigate the violence of political associations in the United States is universal suffrage. In countries in which universal suffrage exists, the majority is never doubtful, because neither party can reasonably pretend to represent that portion of the community which has not voted. The associations know as well as the nation at large that they do not represent the majority. This results, indeed, from the very fact of their existence; for if they did represent the preponderating power, they would change the law instead of soliciting its reform. The consequence of this is that the moral influence of the government which they attack is much increased, and their own power is much enfeebled.

Tocqueville: Book I Chapter 12

 

[LiberalMedia]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

 

[shart_attack]

I'm guessing it's the fault of the "manpigs".

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

This post and the article you link to are accurate and good. I wish I could thank you for them, but due to the "No Thanking of Thanks-Misers" of the USMB Bureau of Thanks Subsidies, I am unable to. I shall rep you for it instead. I especially liked this selection of your link:

So instead of seeing paying taxes as analogous to being mugged by the government, we ought to think of these payments more like the tithing that many people do in their churches and synagogues. Most people see these regular donations as a charitable contribution to the good works being done by these religious organizations – and they certainly don’t resent these contributions. But if the government is also an institution dedicated in large part to doing good works – to promoting the public interest – then we should not resent our taxes contributing to those governmental activities. In fact, we should feel good about all the good our tax dollars are doing – just as we feel good about all the good our religious donations do.

The sooner right-wing nutjobs realize that government is a sound replacement for their backwards, archaic religions, the better.

I never rep anyone either. Just my policy.

 

[LiberalMedia]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

This post and the article you link to are accurate and good. I wish I could thank you for them, but due to the "No Thanking of Thanks-Misers" of the USMB Bureau of Thanks Subsidies, I am unable to. I shall rep you for it instead. I especially liked this selection of your link:

So instead of seeing paying taxes as analogous to being mugged by the government, we ought to think of these payments more like the tithing that many people do in their churches and synagogues. Most people see these regular donations as a charitable contribution to the good works being done by these religious organizations – and they certainly don’t resent these contributions. But if the government is also an institution dedicated in large part to doing good works – to promoting the public interest – then we should not resent our taxes contributing to those governmental activities. In fact, we should feel good about all the good our tax dollars are doing – just as we feel good about all the good our religious donations do.

The sooner right-wing nutjobs realize that government is a sound replacement for their backwards, archaic religions, the better.

I never rep anyone either. Just my policy.

Then I will be filing a formal complaint with the embassy of your home country, Great-Big-Jerkistan. Expect official correspondence soon.

 

[g5000]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

"Libertarian corporate shill".

This is what I love about internet forums. I can be accused of being a liberal, a Libertarian corporate shill, and a right wing tard, all in the same day!


Anywayyyyy...


The size and scope of government is way, way out of control.

That gluttonous government requires an immense tax structure to feed it. So yes, we are paying too much in taxes because we have too much government.

I have offered a number of solutions to this problem.


"Tax is theft"? When the government is overreaching and robbing me of my liberties and freedoms, then the taxes they extort to sustain that racketeer influenced and corrupt organization are criminal. Oh yes indeed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who blanket supports "Taxation is theft" can simply be shrugged off.

 

[LiberalMedia]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

The size and scope of government is way, way out of control.

Confirmed for libertardian corporate shill. Thank you for clearing that up.

we have too much government.

Bullshit, prove it.

I have offered a number of solutions to this problem.

Link them here. Post some of the highlights you're especially proud of for discussion, if they pertain to the issues of taxation and funding the government. This is exactly the kind of thing this thread was started for.

 

[g5000]

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

The size and scope of government is way, way out of control.

Confirmed for libertardian corporate shill. Thank you for clearing that up.

I guess that makes you a confirmed marxist then.

Gosh, it is so easy to throw around labels based on a couple posts. What fun!

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Thank a fymnist and add your name to the Thank Equality list of donors here at USMB.

 

[g5000]

we have too much government.

Bullshit, prove it.

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

This means it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise to you since you are obviously happy with the way things stand now. You will dismiss all evidence to the contrary as things which are necessary.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

fyminists, shrillists, and marxists, oh my!

America continues to laugh at and shrug off the far right.

Tis what it is.

 

[LiberalMedia]

The size and scope of government is way, way out of control.

Confirmed for libertardian corporate shill. Thank you for clearing that up.

I guess that makes you a confirmed marxist then.

Yep.

By the way, I don't see any of those amazing solutions you promised. Did I miss that post of yours, or are you putting off making it in favor of derailing a quality thread?

 

[JakeStarkey]

G5000 link your offered solutions.

But if it is along the lines of Mises, prepared to have your argument shredded by those who know better.

 

[g5000]

G5000 link your offered solutions.

But if it is along the lines of Mises, prepared to have your argument shredded by those who know better.

You've been here long enough to have seen me talk about what solutions I would enact. I offer solutions on a nearly daily basis. And I have started quite a few topics outlining solutions.

Here's one example:

G5000's 5 Point Plan For Economic Prosperity And Better Cable Reception

 

[bendog]

We've been doomed since Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion

 

[LiberalMedia]

we have too much government.

Bullshit, prove it.

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

Sure am.

This means it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise to you since you are obviously happy with the way things stand now. You will dismiss all evidence to the contrary as things which are necessary.

Nope. While I am happy with the current state of affairs in President Obama's America--except for the racists that constantly obstruct our benevolent leader's plans for progress--I do not dismiss any evidence. If your evidence is really evidence, meaning that it stands up to scrutiny and investigation, then I will accept it. If it is hyper-partisan nonsense composed of shallow arguments supported by conjecture rather than actual thought or facts, then of course I will reject it. It's up to you to not completely blow your chance to do the ryght thing and make a rational case for your stated position. I realize that's asking a lot of a corporate shill, but President Obama has inspyred me to remain hopeful even in the face of the abject intellectual poverty right-wingers here display daily.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

Only someone immensely butthurt at getting outed as a bag of hot air would turn tail and run so quickly--and before posting even one of his amazing alternatives to taxation that he promised us.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

Prove that this happens as you described it.