Tax Wall Street Speculators

[bripat9643]

Government creates financial meltdowns. Government created the entire market for sub-prime mortgages. AIG was the tool government used to pass off this garbage to suckers.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

The truth is ridiculous? We never had sub-prime mortgages until politicians like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Bawney Fwank, Chris Dodd, and Barack Obama began meddling in the mortgage market. I recall distinctly when all the leftwing howling about so-called "redlining" practices of banks began.

The left campaigned to create the sub-prime market. Then they want to blame the victim for the disaster they created.

 

[bripat9643]

What a partisan hack! Ever deal with reality? I guess not!
BOTH parties were invoved in the deregualtions that contributed to the meltdown. That's a fact. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.
Didn't the GOP control the House for twelve years? And wasn't Bill Clinton prez for eight of those years. And didn't the GOP in their 2004 platform push homes for everyone.

From the GOP 2004 Platform
"Ownership should not be the preserve of the wealthy or the privileged. . . . [We] believe in the power of ownership to create better lives, we want more people to own a home. . . .

Homeownership is central to the American dream, and [we] want to make it a reality for everyone. That starts with access to capital for entrepreneurs and access to credit for consumers. Both have improved immensely in the past four years, resulting in record levels of homeownership. For the first time, more than half of all minorities own their home.

We support the . . . goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Since . . . 2002, an additional 1.6 million minorities have become homeowners. The Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program helps low-income families purchase a home. The most significant barrier to homeownership is the down payment. We support efforts to reduce that barrier, like the American Dream
Downpayment Act and Zero Downpayment Mortgages."

Riffle: Zero-Down Mortgages: In the 2004 GOP Platform


And yes, Dodd and Frank did their best to keep the status quo.
As facts show, BOTH parties certainly contributed to the meltdown.

Can you point to any legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle?

. . . . .

I didn't think so.

 

[kyzr]

What a partisan hack! Ever deal with reality? I guess not!
BOTH parties were invoved in the deregualtions that contributed to the meltdown. That's a fact. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.
Didn't the GOP control the House for twelve years? And wasn't Bill Clinton prez for eight of those years. And didn't the GOP in their 2004 platform push homes for everyone.

From the GOP 2004 Platform
"Ownership should not be the preserve of the wealthy or the privileged. . . . [We] believe in the power of ownership to create better lives, we want more people to own a home. . . .

Homeownership is central to the American dream, and [we] want to make it a reality for everyone. That starts with access to capital for entrepreneurs and access to credit for consumers. Both have improved immensely in the past four years, resulting in record levels of homeownership. For the first time, more than half of all minorities own their home.

We support the . . . goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Since . . . 2002, an additional 1.6 million minorities have become homeowners. The Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program helps low-income families purchase a home. The most significant barrier to homeownership is the down payment. We support efforts to reduce that barrier, like the American Dream
Downpayment Act and Zero Downpayment Mortgages."

Riffle: Zero-Down Mortgages: In the 2004 GOP Platform


And yes, Dodd and Frank did their best to keep the status quo.
As facts show, BOTH parties certainly contributed to the meltdown.

Can you point to any legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle? . . . .I didn't think so.

You're kidding right?
Subprime mortgage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the "Community Reinvestment Act"

Then there was the Fannie/Freddie cash-cow mess (hint:follow the money; let me know if you need a bigger hint)

Then there was the "American Jobs Creation Act", which after giving mortgages to the unqualified, they gave tax breaks to Wall Street to move about 14,000 factories overseas.

All the DC whores do is sell out the middle-class to rake in big donations.
Any questions? Please provide credible links if you want to debate.

 

[Charles_Main]

Thinking who to tax and how to tax to raise revenue and yet be a net positive to the overall economy and job creation.

Who supports taxing the Wall Street speculators and computer traders that do not raise capital or create jobs, or pay taxes for that matter.

You have heard of the Capitol Gains tax right? That is a direct tax on anyone making a profit off the Markets.

 

[kyzr]

Government creates financial meltdowns. Government created the entire market for sub-prime mortgages. AIG was the tool government used to pass off this garbage to suckers.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

Last time it was the "Savings & Loan Bailout". The time before that it was "Third World Debt", the time before that it was HUD, the time before that it was.....

 

[bripat9643]

Can you point to any legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle? . . . .I didn't think so.

You're kidding right?
Subprime mortgage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the "Community Reinvestment Act"

Then there was the Fannie/Freddie cash-cow mess (hint:follow the money; let me know if you need a bigger hint)

Then there was the "American Jobs Creation Act", which after giving mortgages to the unqualified, they gave tax breaks to Wall Street to move about 14,000 factories overseas.

How did giving tax credits to farmers and businesses or repealing excise taxes cause any factories to move overseas? Your claim to absurd.

All the DC whores do is sell out the middle-class to rake in big donations.
Any questions? Please provide credible links if you want to debate.

I intended to ask "Can you point to any REPUBLICAN legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle?"

The answer you just posted is "no, I can't"

 

[kyzr]

Thinking who to tax and how to tax to raise revenue and yet be a net positive to the overall economy and job creation.

Who supports taxing the Wall Street speculators and computer traders that do not raise capital or create jobs, or pay taxes for that matter.

You have heard of the Capitol Gains tax right? That is a direct tax on anyone making a profit off the Markets.

Not upset about Capital Gains, more upset about how Wall Street fucks-up the economy at will, with derivatives, currency speculation, commodity speculation, etc. Want DC to put clamps on them to raise tax revenue, call it a "Wall Street Sin Tax Series".

 

[Toro]

The truth is ridiculous? We never had sub-prime mortgages until politicians like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Bawney Fwank, Chris Dodd, and Barack Obama began meddling in the mortgage market. I recall distinctly when all the leftwing howling about so-called "redlining" practices of banks began.

The left campaigned to create the sub-prime market. Then they want to blame the victim for the disaster they created.

Explain how AIG was the "government tool" used to pass subprime mortgages on.

 

[kyzr]

Can you point to any legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle? . . . .I didn't think so.

You're kidding right?
Subprime mortgage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the "Community Reinvestment Act"

Then there was the Fannie/Freddie cash-cow mess (hint:follow the money; let me know if you need a bigger hint)

Then there was the "American Jobs Creation Act", which after giving mortgages to the unqualified, they gave tax breaks to Wall Street to move about 14,000 factories overseas.

All the DC whores do is sell out the middle-class to rake in big donations.
Any questions? Please provide credible links if you want to debate.

I intended to ask "Can you point to any REPUBLICAN legislation or executive orders that contributed to the sub-prime mortgage debacle?"

The answer you just posted is "no, I can't"

The GOP passes the Jobs Act and a few years later the economy tanks and unemployment hits ~10%. Tell me you don't recall how the Bush admin had to slither out of DC as the economy crashed? Tell me that instills confidence in the GOP for managing the economy.

 

[kyzr]

How did giving tax credits to farmers and businesses or repealing excise taxes cause any factories to move overseas? Your claim to absurd.

Tech Policy: Tax breaks for outsourcing

Then you tell me why ~14,000 US factories were moved overseas, and why US manufacturing went from 28% of the economy to 12%. Then why else the US unemployment rate went to ~10%

 

[bripat9643]

The GOP passes the Jobs Act and a few years later the economy tanks and unemployment hits ~10%. Tell me you don't recall how the Bush admin had to slither out of DC as the economy crashed? Tell me that instills confidence in the GOP for managing the economy.

Post Hoc, ergo propter hoc. Can you explain the mechanism whereby cutting an excise tax causes the economy to collapse? Please detail exactly how specific items in the bill caused the problem. I'm dying to know.

 

[bripat9643]

How did giving tax credits to farmers and businesses or repealing excise taxes cause any factories to move overseas? Your claim to absurd.

Tech Policy: Tax breaks for outsourcing

Then you tell me why ~14,000 US factories were moved overseas, and why US manufacturing went from 28% of the economy to 12%. Then why else the US unemployment rate went to ~10%

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 14,000 factories were moved overseas, here are the facts of economics.

Factory jobs are low paid and menial. They don't require an education. As an economy advances, more of it's workforce must become employed in occupations that require knowledge and skills. that means more people using computers and fewer people using wrenches and screw drivers. Moving manufacturing overseas to low wage, low knowledge societies is the sign of increasing our wealth.

However, I doubt your claim is correct. Like other liberal claims, I'm sure it's a figure that some propagandist whipped out of his ass.

Furthermore, it still doesn't explain how cutting excise taxes caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle.

 

[kyzr]

The GOP passes the Jobs Act and a few years later the economy tanks and unemployment hits ~10%. Tell me you don't recall how the Bush admin had to slither out of DC as the economy crashed? Tell me that instills confidence in the GOP for managing the economy.

Post Hoc, ergo propter hoc. Can you explain the mechanism whereby cutting an excise tax causes the economy to collapse? Please detail exactly how specific items in the bill caused the problem. I'm dying to know.

post hoc, ergo bullshit...FACT: I never saw a US president exit his term with the country/economy in worse shape than it was when the Bush admin slithered out of DC.

Please ascribe the "root cause" of the economic collapse. Hint: total mismanagement and not holding the dems' feet to the fire for Fannie/Feddie corruption etc. The only straw you have to grab is that the MSM was exhorting the dems instead of rooting out obvious corruption.
[okay so it wasn't one Bill that sank the US economy, but years of mismanagement by both parties, it just so happens that the economy crashed during Bush's watch. Sucks to have that albatross around a party's neck]

 

[kyzr]

How did giving tax credits to farmers and businesses or repealing excise taxes cause any factories to move overseas? Your claim to absurd.

Tech Policy: Tax breaks for outsourcing

Then you tell me why ~14,000 US factories were moved overseas, and why US manufacturing went from 28% of the economy to 12%. Then why else the US unemployment rate went to ~10%

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 14,000 factories were moved overseas, here are the facts of economics.

Factory jobs are low paid and menial. They don't require an education. As an economy advances, more of it's workforce must become employed in occupations that require knowledge and skills. that means more people using computers and fewer people using wrenches and screw drivers. Moving manufacturing overseas to low wage, low knowledge societies is the sign of increasing our wealth.

However, I doubt your claim is correct. Like other liberal claims, I'm sure it's a figure that some propagandist whipped out of his ass.

Furthermore, it still doesn't explain how cutting excise taxes caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle.

Glad you brought that up...
1. Sure there are low-paying menial factory jobs, but those jobs are needed for those segments of the population.
2. Factories also require managers, accountants, lawyers, parts suppliers, lots of various materials, they use energy, pay taxes, etc. Factories are very important, they are job-multipliers.

 

[impalero]

All personal income should be taxed the same.

There are 5 financial lobbyists per congressman currently in the US. The best policy would be to actually destroy that connection first of all, then worry about tax codes and what not.
Make new taxes, and they can create new loopholes to dodge around the newly formed laws.

I care not at this point if their money was destroyed and not even taxed if it took the power away from them to manipulate our economy from being in bed with politicians as well as existing in a revolving door where they travel from the private sector to government and vice versa in order to help each other fill their pockets.

 

[Flopper]

It is not speculators you need to worry about. Get hold of Jim McTague’s new book, "Crapshoot Investing". If you buy or sell equities, it will scare the hell out of you. Equity markets are now high-speed casinos rigged against individual investors. The Stock market crash on May 6, 2010 in which the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged about 900 points - or about nine percent - only to recover those losses within minutes. This was caused by programed trading in which computers followed their programing selling huge number shares of stocks in a matter seconds because some programmed set of conditions in trading computers were met.

There are hundreds if not thousands of these computer that are programed to buy and sell stocks based on programed events, submitting transactions at microsecond speeds. They have been fabulously successful generating profits individual investors only dream of.

If the programmed conditions are met these computers can essentially break the market in a matter of seconds sending shock waves throughout the economy. Regulators still remain clueless.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Crapshoot-Investing-ebook/dp/B004GXB40C[/ame]

 

[kyzr]

All personal income should be taxed the same.

There are 5 financial lobbyists per congressman currently in the US. The best policy would be to actually destroy that connection first of all, then worry about tax codes and what not.
Make new taxes, and they can create new loopholes to dodge around the newly formed laws.

I care not at this point if their money was destroyed and not even taxed if it took the power away from them to manipulate our economy from being in bed with politicians as well as existing in a revolving door where they travel from the private sector to government and vice versa in order to help each other fill their pockets.

1. By passing new taxes on a per transaction basis, every time a stock, or derivative is bought/sold there can be no loop-hole. Better yet, have the SEC manage/monitor the computers that manage all financial transactions. Non-tax-deductible Taxes are deducted by transactions....no escape....on all exchanges.

2. By not taxing Wall Street you give them more money to play with to bribe politicians.

 

[kiwiman127]

Taxing American Markets means stock & commodities will be traded on foreign exchanges where we have no control. It will send all the high paying Wallstreet jobs out of the USA so you will not collect a dime in taxes from the rich. Is that what you want to do?

Sure it will.

Free markets mean people can take there business elsewhere. Costs in the US from taxing/regulation have already hit hard with the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act with initial public offerings of stock (IPO's)--

--as well as companies de-listing on US exchanges.

You are right about Sarbanes-Oxley Act being one of the main reasons companies are leaving. Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which Congress passed in passed on 2002, was designed to protect the consumer after the scandals on Wall Street SOX does not deal with taxes at all but more so with bookkeeping thanks to WorldCom, Enron and Tyco.

Symbolic Shift: Why Daimler Is Delisting
Why Daimler, European firms want to delist from U.S. exchanges.

Simply put, the costs have come to outweigh the benefits for most German corporations. Most of their international investors trade their shares through electronic trading platforms based in Frankfurt. The cachet of trading on a U.S. exchange has faded to some degree, with markets becoming more global, and governance and listing standards rising on many overseas markets
Meanwhile, the cost and complexity of adhering to U.S. regulations, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, have risen. That has been shown especially in the cases of companies like Daimler and Siemens, which have found themselves in the crosshairs of Securities and Exchange Commission probes in recent years as a result of their U.S. listings.
Daimler Delisting Shows Diminished Allure of U.S. Exchanges - WSJ.com


SOX: Culprit Behind Increased Delisting?

"[The Sarbanes-Oxley Act] was good medicine for corporate ills, but even good medicine prescribed without due care for side effects can be toxic." This was an apt comment by Neal Wolkoff, chairman and chief executive officer of the American Stock Exchange.

Since its implementation in 2002, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act's (SOX) internal controls requirement has proven too costly for smaller public companies. In particular, the steep costs of designing, documenting, and auditing financial controls, as necessitated in Section 404 of SOX, have caused many corporations to "go dark" or voluntarily deregister themselves from major exchanges.

Sarbanes Oxley Act, SOX Delisting, Sarbanes Oxley act compliance, Section 404 Exemption

Or there is this:

Why are big foreign companies considering delisting their American depositary receipts?/B]

<Snip>
Initially, foreign companies used ADRs to increase their exposure within the North American market. More recently, some companies have decided to delist their ADRs from U.S. exchanges for a variety of reasons. Some have delisted their ADRs based on corporate decisions that have reduced the amount of business done within the U.S. Decisions such as these can be made based on changing economic conditions within the U.S. and foreign markets. For other foreign companies, the ADRs represented an extremely small portion of the equity that they had issued and these ADRs had very low trading volumes. These firms also found that U.S. residents owned primarily ordinary shares within the company, rather than ADRs

Why are big foreign companies considering delisting their ADRs?

Maybe you can come up with some sampling of firms delisting because of the US tax structure.

 

[Flopper]

When you put an order in for shares, the odds are pretty good that the order will not be executed on an exchange but rather matched against other orders for that stock held by the broker or a network of brokers. Any taxing would have to done through the dealer and not the exchanges.

Short term trading may not add much to the economy but does provide liquidity for the markets which is important.

 

[Flopper]

When you put an order in for shares, the odds are pretty good that the order will not be executed on an exchange but rather matched against other orders for that stock held by the broker or a network of brokers. Any taxing would have to done through the dealer and not the exchanges.

Short term trading may not add much to the economy but does provide liquidity for the markets which is important.