Tax Wall Street Speculators

[asterism]

1. There would be Tax Cuts for long-term capital gains, where investors buy stock in companies who hire people and buy US equipment. This is how we should want the stock market to work, to raise long-term capital.

2. The opposite, are micro-second computer traders, short-sellers, derivative traders, commodity speculators, options traders, day-traders, currency traders, all of the other investment schemes that do not help companies raise long-term capital ''SHOULD BE TAXED HEAVILY".

In item 1, I think we both want to accomplish the same thing, reward investors whose investments benefit the US economy. However, I don’t think capital gains are the best place to do it. Most capital gains on security transactions do very little to create jobs or facilitate the purchase of US made goods. Most stock transactions do not directly provide funds to the company and thus do little for the economy. With Initial Public Offerings, Secondary Stock issues, and New issue Corporate Bonds the company receives the funds unlike normal security transactions. Investors that make these types of investments should be rewarded as long as the funds are being used to create jobs and benefit our economy.

We also need to close the loopholes in corporate taxes that allow companies to take tax write-offs for shipping jobs overseas.

I'm basing some of my opinions on Warren Buffet's assertion that "derivatives aren't necessarily evil, but they are dangerous".

Why should we allow speculators to fuck with the economy? I'd modify their behaviors with a very strict tax policy.

So taxes are not for raising revenue?

That's the problem.

 

[Flopper]

1. There would be Tax Cuts for long-term capital gains, where investors buy stock in companies who hire people and buy US equipment. This is how we should want the stock market to work, to raise long-term capital.

2. The opposite, are micro-second computer traders, short-sellers, derivative traders, commodity speculators, options traders, day-traders, currency traders, all of the other investment schemes that do not help companies raise long-term capital ''SHOULD BE TAXED HEAVILY".

In item 1, I think we both want to accomplish the same thing, reward investors whose investments benefit the US economy. However, I don’t think capital gains are the best place to do it. Most capital gains on security transactions do very little to create jobs or facilitate the purchase of US made goods. Most stock transactions do not directly provide funds to the company and thus do little for the economy. With Initial Public Offerings, Secondary Stock issues, and New issue Corporate Bonds the company receives the funds unlike normal security transactions. Investors that make these types of investments should be rewarded as long as the funds are being used to create jobs and benefit our economy.

We also need to close the loopholes in corporate taxes that allow companies to take tax write-offs for shipping jobs overseas.

I'm basing some of my opinions on Warren Buffet's assertion that "derivatives aren't necessarily evil, but they are dangerous".

Why should we allow speculators to fuck with the economy? I'd modify their behaviors with a very strict tax policy.

I'm not sure what speculation you're talking about.

 

[expat_panama]

...IMHO if they don't do anything that helps create jobs, tax the piss out of them.

That means two things, that if buying stocks results in hiring then we shouldn't tax them, and that anytime we see someone who doesn't hire another worker we should "tax the piss out of them."

Most employees in the US work for publicly listed corporations that stay in business as long as they have capital along with their labor-force. People who buy stocks make it so the labor-force is employed. We shouldn't tax anyone who owns stocks.

If you and your family don't own stocks then the gov't should "tax the piss out of them.". Same goes for every new baby born.

I don't agree with your opinion.

 

[editec]

Certainly a modest sales tax on stock, bond, commodities contracts and derivative investments would generate some serious revenues.


That's where MOST of the economic activitiy is in this nation, nowadays, anyway.

We have trillions of dollars worth of economic activity that bears no tax burden.

Meanwhile some kid who buys a candy bar gets taxed on it.

Is that sane?

Is that fair?

It seems fair and sane if you're in the investment business, I suppose.

 

[asterism]

Certainly a modest sales tax on stock, bond, commodities contracts and derivative investments would generate some serious revenues.

Certainly you have no data to back that up or else you would have already presented it.

That's where MOST of the economic activitiy is in this nation, nowadays, anyway.

No data for that either.

We have trillions of dollars worth of economic activity that bears no tax burden.

Again, no data. Can someone fix the scratch in this vinyl please?

Meanwhile some kid who buys a candy bar gets taxed on it.

And?

Is that sane?

Is that fair?

It seems fair and sane if you're in the investment business, I suppose.

Sane and fair is the FairTax. But you don't want sane and fair, I suspect you want nationalization of assets and a permanent underclass dependent on the government, controlled by those called "the ruling class."

 

[expat_panama]

We have trillions of dollars worth of economic activity that bears no tax burden. Meanwhile some kid who buys a candy bar gets taxed on it.

The fact that so many people say that doesn't make it true. Work with me. You've got to be familiar with capital gains taxes and you've got to be aware of all the property taxes, business fees, and payroll taxes brokerages pay.

 

[Freedomlover]

Who is a Wall Street speculator? Is it the millions of us who have 401K(s) and are invested in the stock market? Is the millions of us who own stocks and Mutual Funds in order to provide better for our retirement? Is it the family that has investments for providing a college education for their children? Is it the day trader who can only afford to invest a modest amount in an attempt to supplement their family income? Is it the pension fund that invests the hundreds of millions of contributions from its members to provide a decent retirement for them and provide a stable reserve for future retirees?

I could go on and on but I can only hope you now get the point. You do not know of what you speak when you want to tax investors in the manner of which you propose. In addition, where do you think capital comes from to provide funds for companies to purchase equipment and provide jobs? It is apparent you did not get a very good grade in economics 101, or did not take it at all!

 

[kiwiman127]

Taxing American Markets means stock & commodities will be traded on foreign exchanges where we have no control. It will send all the high paying Wallstreet jobs out of the USA so you will not collect a dime in taxes from the rich. Is that what you want to do?

Sure it will.

 

[expat_panama]

Taxing American Markets means stock & commodities will be traded on foreign exchanges where we have no control. It will send all the high paying Wallstreet jobs out of the USA so you will not collect a dime in taxes from the rich. Is that what you want to do?

Sure it will.

Free markets mean people can take there business elsewhere. Costs in the US from taxing/regulation have already hit hard with the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act with initial public offerings of stock (IPO's)--

--as well as companies de-listing on US exchanges.

 

[bripat9643]

Thinking who to tax and how to tax to raise revenue and yet be a net positive to the overall economy and job creation.

Who supports taxing the Wall Street speculators and computer traders that do not raise capital or create jobs, or pay taxes for that matter.

Your stupid poll doesn't include the following:

"None of the above."

I oppose all schemes for enhancing government revenue. I favor cutting government revenue and slashing spending even further.

If there is one thing this country doesn't need, it's sending more money to Washington.

 

[bripat9643]

Hey NEAT! Solve everything by picking some group and making up bad stuff about them. I vote for taxing owners of bars that play loud music that do not raise capital or create jobs, or pay taxes for that matter.

Naw, just saying it doesn't make it true, not for stock traders not for bar owners.

I vote for raising taxes on all government employees. We can call it "the useless parasite tax."

 

[bripat9643]

How about the days when AIG et. al. speculated in derivatives and tore up $trillions in losses that they couldn't cover. How about the oil spike a few years ago, that did no good for anyone? Just some kids playing with derivatives.

IMHO if they don't do anything that helps create jobs, tax the piss out of them.

AIG was just a vast scheme the government created to fleece taxpayers.

Anyone who believes finance companies do nothing to create jobs is too stupid to waste bandwidth on.

 

[bripat9643]

Speculators are who is driving up the cost of food and oil, just like they did in 2008.
Their greed hurts everyone, from the commuter, to businesses, to the typical American family.
Fuck them and tax the living shit out of them.

Speculators can't drive up the price of anything in the long term. Prices are set by supply and demand. All speculators do is make the market adjust to these forces quicker then it might otherwise.

 

[bripat9643]

1. There would be Tax Cuts for long-term capital gains, where investors buy stock in companies who hire people and buy US equipment. This is how we should want the stock market to work, to raise long-term capital.

2. The opposite, are micro-second computer traders, short-sellers, derivative traders, commodity speculators, options traders, day-traders, currency traders, all of the other investment schemes that do not help companies raise long-term capital ''SHOULD BE TAXED HEAVILY".

The liberal grab bag of stupid economic schemes is too vast to list.

 

[kiwiman127]

How about the days when AIG et. al. speculated in derivatives and tore up $trillions in losses that they couldn't cover. How about the oil spike a few years ago, that did no good for anyone? Just some kids playing with derivatives.

IMHO if they don't do anything that helps create jobs, tax the piss out of them.

AIG was just a vast scheme the government created to fleece taxpayers.

Anyone who believes finance companies do nothing to create jobs is too stupid to waste bandwidth on.

They create financial meltdowns too and you're defending,,,figures. Half of those fuckers should be in jail.

 

[bripat9643]

They create financial meltdowns too and you're defending,,,figures. Half of those fuckers should be in jail.

Government creates financial meltdowns. Government created the entire market for sub-prime mortgages. AIG was the tool government used to pass off this garbage to suckers.

The theory that all the players in a market simultaneously and spontaneously make the same bad decisions is too absurd for words. Obviously, they wouldn't do it if some outside force (government) wasn't compelling them or incentivising them to do it. Of course, the politicians responsible will never accept the blame.

 

[KissMy]

They create financial meltdowns too and you're defending,,,figures. Half of those fuckers should be in jail.

Start by jailing the people most responsible for the crisis.
Order of responsibility for this crisis:
1 - Bill Clinton - signed nearly every part of this into law.
2 - Democrats in congress, Barney Frank & Chris Dodd
3 - Congressional Black Caucus
4 - Republicans in congress
5 - Alan Greenspan / Ben Bernanke
6 - Frank Raines of Fannie Mae
7 - Phil Gramm - derivatives & swaps
8 - Chris Cox - Lax SEC regulation
9 - Hank Paulson - US Treasury
10- Sandy Weill of Citigroup
11- ACORN
12- Jimmy Carter - started the CRA
13- George Bush - did not push hard enough to stop this.
14- Barack Obama - Congressional Black Caucus, ACORN, Against GSE regulation, pushed CRA.
15- Kathleen Corbet S&P AAA ratings
16- Lew Ranieri coined MBS securitization
17- Marion and Herb Sandler invent Wells Fargo option ARM
18- Joe Cassano of AIG
19- Realestate Appraisers
20- Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide
21- Dick Fuld of Lehman
22- Jimmy Cayne of Bear Stearns
23- Stan O'Neal of Merrill Lynch
24- Homebuilders & Ian McCarthy
25- National Association of Realtors - David Lereah
26- US Home Buyers & Consumer loans
27- Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme
29- Hedge funds & John Devaney
29- Fred Goodwin of Royal Bank of Scotland
30- Carleton Sheets no money down infomercial
31- HGTV & Burton Jablin
32- Easy credit from foreign govs China & Iceland

 

[bripat9643]

They create financial meltdowns too and you're defending,,,figures. Half of those fuckers should be in jail.

The scumbag Democrat politicians who created the shell game should be the ones going to jail.

 

[kiwiman127]

They create financial meltdowns too and you're defending,,,figures. Half of those fuckers should be in jail.

The scumbag Democrat politicians who created the shell game should be the ones going to jail.

What a partisan hack! Ever deal with reality? I guess not!
BOTH parties were invoved in the deregualtions that contributed to the meltdown. That's a fact. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.
Didn't the GOP control the House for twelve years? And wasn't Bill Clinton prez for eight of those years. And didn't the GOP in their 2004 platform push homes for everyone.

From the GOP 2004 Platform
"Ownership should not be the preserve of the wealthy or the privileged. . . . [We] believe in the power of ownership to create better lives, we want more people to own a home. . . .

Homeownership is central to the American dream, and [we] want to make it a reality for everyone. That starts with access to capital for entrepreneurs and access to credit for consumers. Both have improved immensely in the past four years, resulting in record levels of homeownership. For the first time, more than half of all minorities own their home.

We support the . . . goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Since . . . 2002, an additional 1.6 million minorities have become homeowners. The Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program helps low-income families purchase a home. The most significant barrier to homeownership is the down payment. We support efforts to reduce that barrier, like the American Dream
Downpayment Act and Zero Downpayment Mortgages."

Riffle: Zero-Down Mortgages: In the 2004 GOP Platform


And yes, Dodd and Frank did their best to keep the status quo.
As facts show, BOTH parties certainly contributed to the meltdown.

 

[Toro]

Government creates financial meltdowns. Government created the entire market for sub-prime mortgages. AIG was the tool government used to pass off this garbage to suckers.

That's absolutely ridiculous.