tax breaks for the rich vs cuts for the people

[Bern80]

The rich are people too...

Not according to the left. They're food... hosts for them to be parasites on till they die, then a new host will come about for the parasitic left to glom onto.

I'm asking what sacrifice the Rich should make towards balancing the budget,

since to balance the budget, sacrifices MUST be made.

So far the answer, from conservatives here, via silence, is NONE.

Are you in agreement? Do you believe the Rich should be exempted from sacrifice needed to balance the budget?

Should all of that sacrifice fall on the non-Rich?

They shouldn't have to make any sacrifice to balance the budget. No one should, regardless of income level. The people didn't engage in this runaway spending. Congress did that. It's their mess to fix and they have no right to make anyone pay for it.

 

[rightwinger]

Specifically HOW?

Enumerate all the things the wealthy benefit from that the rest of America doesn't.

Ok lets do it

US Military: How does the US Military help poor Americans other than taking their sons and daughters? The US Military maintaining a stable global presence ensures that international investments of the wealthy are protected.

Infrastructure: Roads, bridges, rail lines, ports all enable the wealthy to quickly and efficiently move people and products at low cost

Education: Our publically funded education system provides an educated workforce at no cost to the wealthy. They are able to profit off these workers while taxpayers pay to educate them. What would it cost employers if all the workers they want to hire had to be educated from scratch?

Food Stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies: What? The wealthy don't collect these things.
But by having the taxpayer subsidize your workers while you pay a substandard wage enables you to profit off these programs

How does the military help the poor?? Just like it helps every other citizen regardless of income.... by ensuring the other rights are there by protecting this country... for without it and those serving, you would have none of it

Which specific rights of yours have been threatened by a foreign nation in the last 150 years?

Has a foreign country ever tried to come here and prevent you from speaking, or voting, or praticing your religion? Which of your rights have been threatened?

The US fights to stabilize the global market. That ensures that our businesses can continue to flourish

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

BULLSHIT!!!!

You've got that (just) a LITTLE backwards!!!!​

"A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt expressed alarm about the dangerous concentration of wealth and power in the U.S. and called on the incoming 60th Congress to establish a federal estate tax on large fortunes. Its primary objective, Roosevelt said, "should be to put a constantly increasing burden on the inheritance of those swollen fortunes which it is certainly of no benefit to this country to perpetuate."

A more careful look would disclose another fundamental factor in wealth creation—being born in America. (What Warren Buffett refers to as winning the game of ovarian roulette.)

What is so special about place of birth?

First off, economists agree that the presence of a stable market for goods and assets adds 30% to the value of everything we own—we have that in America, and that increases wealth.

Second, economists tell us that 50% of the annual growth in our economy is a function of the introduction of new technology—we have that in America, and my family knows first-hand about how new technology can increase wealth.

But the benefits of being an American don’t stop there.

In no other country in the world is the federal government spending more money on research. The United States spends some $96 billion every year on fundamental research in universities and laboratories all over this country.

And what comes of this research? Well for starters how about things like jet engines, integrated circuits, the human genome, or the Internet. Clearly the largest and most generous venture capitalist in the universe is Uncle Sam.

It is clear that the folks who have become wealthy from this significant social investment did not do it alone. I believe their estates owe something back to the society that enabled the creation of that wealth."

Bill Gates, Sr.​

And since our conversation about wealth distribution is relegated only to the U.S., the above is irrelevent. Thanks for playing.

ooooooooooooooooooooooo....a generalization that almost makes sense.

How crafty of you.

 

[Immanuel]

Not according to the left. They're food... hosts for them to be parasites on till they die, then a new host will come about for the parasitic left to glom onto.

I'm asking what sacrifice the Rich should make towards balancing the budget,

since to balance the budget, sacrifices MUST be made.

So far the answer, from conservatives here, via silence, is NONE.

Are you in agreement? Do you believe the Rich should be exempted from sacrifice needed to balance the budget?

Should all of that sacrifice fall on the non-Rich?

They shouldn't have to make any sacrifice to balance the budget. No one should, regardless of income level. The people didn't engage in this runaway spending. Congress did that. It's their mess to fix and they have no right to make anyone pay for it.

I have to disagree there. They are our representatives. We are the nation of the United States of America. It is our responsibility.

Immie

 

[Bern80]

BULLSHIT!!!!

You've got that (just) a LITTLE backwards!!!!​

And since our conversation about wealth distribution is relegated only to the U.S., the above is irrelevent. Thanks for playing.

ooooooooooooooooooooooo....a generalization that almost makes sense.

How crafty of you.

Not a generalization. An observation. if we were talking about GLOBAL wealth distribution the above would be relevent and even accurate. But that's not what we're talking about.

 

[Claudette]

So, how many of you agree with Willow?

That what we really need to do in this country, tax wise, is to RAISE taxes on the poorer and CUT taxes on the richer.

Just equal % taxation on all citizens, regardless of income... I don't care if it is at the 38%, as long as it is for everyone and justified with reviews of proper government spending and reducing the debt

So you do in fact support raising taxes on the poorer while lowering taxes on the richer, which is what would have to be done to get to 'equal %'.

1. Is that a mainstream Conservative view? Do you believe most on the Right support that?

2. Would you also support eliminating all exemptions, deductions, and credits for children, which probably more than anything create the unequal % 'problem' you're talking about.

I'm all for closing the loopholes for all. That includes the rich and the poor.

I really find it amazing that you can pay no Fed taxes yet you get to file a tax return and get a rebate simply because you have children. Some of those rebates total in the thousands. Nice little payout every year.

All payed for courtesy of those of us that do pay Fed taxes.

Yep. I'm for fairness all the way around

 

[DiamondDave]

So, how many of you agree with Willow?

That what we really need to do in this country, tax wise, is to RAISE taxes on the poorer and CUT taxes on the richer.

Just equal % taxation on all citizens, regardless of income... I don't care if it is at the 38%, as long as it is for everyone and justified with reviews of proper government spending and reducing the debt

So you do in fact support raising taxes on the poorer while lowering taxes on the richer, which is what would have to be done to get to 'equal %'.

1. Is that a mainstream Conservative view? Do you believe most on the Right support that?

2. Would you also support eliminating all exemptions, deductions, and credits for children, which probably more than anything create the unequal % 'problem' you're talking about.

I support an equal taxation system where everyone has a stake in the game.... the same % stake on every dollar earned... no deductions, no loopholes, no nothing.... for when someone has a stake in the game, it is less likely that they will vote to support things that abuse the system...

It is a shame that for SO long, a large number of people have not paid any income taxes, relied on the earnings of others and the taxation derived from those earnings, and sucked off the government tit with entitlements provided by the taxation of others... and they continue to support politicians that facilitate this because, of course, who gives up a free ride??

I support equal treatment for all by government, and all the good and bad that goes with that equality

 

[DiamondDave]

Ok lets do it

US Military: How does the US Military help poor Americans other than taking their sons and daughters? The US Military maintaining a stable global presence ensures that international investments of the wealthy are protected.

Infrastructure: Roads, bridges, rail lines, ports all enable the wealthy to quickly and efficiently move people and products at low cost

Education: Our publically funded education system provides an educated workforce at no cost to the wealthy. They are able to profit off these workers while taxpayers pay to educate them. What would it cost employers if all the workers they want to hire had to be educated from scratch?

Food Stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies: What? The wealthy don't collect these things.
But by having the taxpayer subsidize your workers while you pay a substandard wage enables you to profit off these programs

How does the military help the poor?? Just like it helps every other citizen regardless of income.... by ensuring the other rights are there by protecting this country... for without it and those serving, you would have none of it

Which specific rights of yours have been threatened by a foreign nation in the last 150 years?

Has a foreign country ever tried to come here and prevent you from speaking, or voting, or praticing your religion? Which of your rights have been threatened?

The US fights to stabilize the global market. That ensures that our businesses can continue to flourish

Threatened by nations?? Lest you forget we have been at war with other nations that have attacked our territories and soil in the past 150 years (and attacked our allies).... and lest we forget that it is no longer just nations that threaten our lives, our security, etc...

Our unquestioned military superiority has helped to ensure that safety for a number of years now.... and it should remain that way... not cutting back our military and our defenses to give entitlements to the fucking lazy

 

[Bern80]

No it is not. It is more of a reflection of how taxes are routed to ensure the continued generation of wealth for the rich. Tax shelters, labor laws, environmental regulation, infrastructure, education.....all benefit the rich

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

So you honestly believe if we had a very simple tax code (which I'm for), one were there weren't so many breaks for the rich to take advantage of, say a national 15% sales tax or a simple single percentage of income regardless of income, the distribution of wealth would change? That the wealthy would have signifcantly less money?

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

This notion that wealth should be distributed evenly is a load of crap. Wealth should be distributed based on the value and efforts of individuals. And the reality you refuse to see is the reason wealth is distributed the way it is the result of the CHOICES people have made. And an awful lot of people have decided NOT to pursue wealth. They have decided to pursue jobs. Most of which are not too conducive to wealth accumulation.

I have never advocated that wealth be distributed evenly..

However, given the current disparity in wealth in this country I do advocated that we discontinue breaks and incentives that benefit the wealthy.

And when (yes when, not if) the distribution of wealth doesn't change after eliminating said breaks and incentives, who are you going to blame then?

 

[rightwinger]

How does the military help the poor?? Just like it helps every other citizen regardless of income.... by ensuring the other rights are there by protecting this country... for without it and those serving, you would have none of it

Which specific rights of yours have been threatened by a foreign nation in the last 150 years?

Has a foreign country ever tried to come here and prevent you from speaking, or voting, or praticing your religion? Which of your rights have been threatened?

The US fights to stabilize the global market. That ensures that our businesses can continue to flourish

Threatened by nations?? Lest you forget we have been at war with other nations that have attacked our territories and soil in the past 150 years (and attacked our allies).... and lest we forget that it is no longer just nations that threaten our lives, our security, etc...

Our unquestioned military superiority has helped to ensure that safety for a number of years now.... and it should remain that way... not cutting back our military and our defenses to give entitlements to the fucking lazy

Attacked to remove which of your rights or freedoms?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What have the wealthy been asked to sacrifice in this great present and future Era of Sacrifice that is upon us?

Specifically.

The top 10% pay more in taxes than the other 90% combined. They've sacrificed. They've invested. They've risked their money on business ventures, hiring, etc, etc.

With great risk comes great reward. Without great reward, why would anyone take a great risk, such as founding a company like WalMart or Microsoft? Not everyone can be a union gov't employee with a cushy and almost guaranteed lifelong income. Some people roll the dice and start business.

But unless the Great Risk = Great Reward equation, no one would risk inventions, innovations, etc, etc.

You libs just need to get over your extreme envy of the wealthy and realize that.

Innovation and jobs come from rich people and profits. Without that reward, why would anyone do anything more than a stable, gov't union job?

Microsoft was founded in 1976. The top tax rate in 1976 was 70%.

Thanks for making a claim and then proving yourself wrong all in one post.

lol

and thanks to DiamondDave for foolishly agreeing with you.

I guess if we want the kind of 'risk taking' that gave us a company like Microsoft and all the innovation and advancement that came with it,

we should RAISE the top tax rates.

 

[Jarhead]

What have the wealthy been asked to sacrifice in this great present and future Era of Sacrifice that is upon us?

Specifically.

The top 10% pay more in taxes than the other 90% combined. They've sacrificed. They've invested. They've risked their money on business ventures, hiring, etc, etc.

With great risk comes great reward. Without great reward, why would anyone take a great risk, such as founding a company like WalMart or Microsoft? Not everyone can be a union gov't employee with a cushy and almost guaranteed lifelong income. Some people roll the dice and start business.

But unless the Great Risk = Great Reward equation, no one would risk inventions, innovations, etc, etc.

You libs just need to get over your extreme envy of the wealthy and realize that.

Innovation and jobs come from rich people and profits. Without that reward, why would anyone do anything more than a stable, gov't union job?

Microsoft was founded in 1976. The top tax rate in 1976 was 70%.

Thanks for making a claim and then proving yourself wrong all in one post.

lol

and thanks to DiamondDave for foolishly agreeing with you.

I guess if we want the kind of 'risk taking' that gave us a company like Microsoft and all the innovation and advancement that came with it,

we should RAISE the top tax rates.

Disingenuous post....

in 1976 tax shelters were still deemed as legal and acceptable.....

 

[driveby]

Infographic: Tax Breaks vs. Budget Cuts






ThinkProgress » Show Me The Money: As Colorado Slashes Funds For Education, Tom Cruise Pays $400 In Property Taxes


Colorado, Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) is proposing a massive $375 million cut to education funding and proposing to close four state parks. Meanwhile, Tom Cruise, whose net worth exceeds $250 million, pays Colorado just $400 a year in property taxes for a 248 -acre property outside of Telluride that he purchased for $18 million.

How does he do it? By manipulating a tax break designed to help struggling farmers. The Denver Post reports

It's already a stacked deck, the rich pay the most taxes and get the least amount of gubment services, idiots like you pay the least amount of taxes and get the most gubment services, but that's not good enough? You and your ilk are laughable.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Just equal % taxation on all citizens, regardless of income... I don't care if it is at the 38%, as long as it is for everyone and justified with reviews of proper government spending and reducing the debt

So you do in fact support raising taxes on the poorer while lowering taxes on the richer, which is what would have to be done to get to 'equal %'.

1. Is that a mainstream Conservative view? Do you believe most on the Right support that?

2. Would you also support eliminating all exemptions, deductions, and credits for children, which probably more than anything create the unequal % 'problem' you're talking about.

I'm all for closing the loopholes for all. That includes the rich and the poor.

I really find it amazing that you can pay no Fed taxes yet you get to file a tax return and get a rebate simply because you have children. Some of those rebates total in the thousands. Nice little payout every year.

All payed for courtesy of those of us that do pay Fed taxes.

Yep. I'm for fairness all the way around

The child tax credit is the main reason so many pay NO federal income taxes.

I doubt that 1 in 10 here would be willing to give it up in the interests of fairness.

I don't get it, and compared to someone at the same wage level as I, but they have 2 or 3 kids?

All told, it means I pay approximately quadruple the income taxes they do.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The top 10% pay more in taxes than the other 90% combined. They've sacrificed. They've invested. They've risked their money on business ventures, hiring, etc, etc.

With great risk comes great reward. Without great reward, why would anyone take a great risk, such as founding a company like WalMart or Microsoft? Not everyone can be a union gov't employee with a cushy and almost guaranteed lifelong income. Some people roll the dice and start business.

But unless the Great Risk = Great Reward equation, no one would risk inventions, innovations, etc, etc.

You libs just need to get over your extreme envy of the wealthy and realize that.

Innovation and jobs come from rich people and profits. Without that reward, why would anyone do anything more than a stable, gov't union job?

Microsoft was founded in 1976. The top tax rate in 1976 was 70%.

Thanks for making a claim and then proving yourself wrong all in one post.

lol

and thanks to DiamondDave for foolishly agreeing with you.

I guess if we want the kind of 'risk taking' that gave us a company like Microsoft and all the innovation and advancement that came with it,

we should RAISE the top tax rates.

Disingenuous post....

in 1976 tax shelters were still deemed as legal and acceptable.....

Go away.

You honestly believe that the only reason Bill Gates and Paul Allen built Microsoft is because of tax shelters???

LOL, that is mentally retarded.

 

[DiamondDave]

Which specific rights of yours have been threatened by a foreign nation in the last 150 years?

Has a foreign country ever tried to come here and prevent you from speaking, or voting, or praticing your religion? Which of your rights have been threatened?

The US fights to stabilize the global market. That ensures that our businesses can continue to flourish

Threatened by nations?? Lest you forget we have been at war with other nations that have attacked our territories and soil in the past 150 years (and attacked our allies).... and lest we forget that it is no longer just nations that threaten our lives, our security, etc...

Our unquestioned military superiority has helped to ensure that safety for a number of years now.... and it should remain that way... not cutting back our military and our defenses to give entitlements to the fucking lazy

Attacked to remove which of your rights or freedoms?

Life... a pretty big one, asshole

 

[Jarhead]

Microsoft was founded in 1976. The top tax rate in 1976 was 70%.

Thanks for making a claim and then proving yourself wrong all in one post.

lol

and thanks to DiamondDave for foolishly agreeing with you.

I guess if we want the kind of 'risk taking' that gave us a company like Microsoft and all the innovation and advancement that came with it,

we should RAISE the top tax rates.

Disingenuous post....

in 1976 tax shelters were still deemed as legal and acceptable.....

Go away.

You honestly believe that the only reason Bill Gates and Paul Allen built Microsoft is because of tax shelters???

LOL, that is mentally retarded.

What is mentally retarded is the fact that you took what I said that way.
Your refusal to apply your ability to comprehend is humorous and sad at the same time.

I will make it easy for you...

In 1976, without tax shelters, people would consider the risk/benefit in a different light. If they had to risk a million to make 2 million and lose 70 percent of the 1 million dollar profit to taxes...then in essence they would need to risk a million to make only 300K profit....and would likely say it is not an acceptable ratio.
Tax shelters allowed them to risk a million to make 700,000...and that was an acceptable ratio.
Perhaps you are not aware of cost/benefit analyses?

DO me a favor NYCarbineer...if you dont want to try to comprehend what i am saying, pass by my posts.

 

[DiamondDave]

What have the wealthy been asked to sacrifice in this great present and future Era of Sacrifice that is upon us?

Specifically.

The top 10% pay more in taxes than the other 90% combined. They've sacrificed. They've invested. They've risked their money on business ventures, hiring, etc, etc.

With great risk comes great reward. Without great reward, why would anyone take a great risk, such as founding a company like WalMart or Microsoft? Not everyone can be a union gov't employee with a cushy and almost guaranteed lifelong income. Some people roll the dice and start business.

But unless the Great Risk = Great Reward equation, no one would risk inventions, innovations, etc, etc.

You libs just need to get over your extreme envy of the wealthy and realize that.

Innovation and jobs come from rich people and profits. Without that reward, why would anyone do anything more than a stable, gov't union job?

Microsoft was founded in 1976. The top tax rate in 1976 was 70%.

Thanks for making a claim and then proving yourself wrong all in one post.

lol

and thanks to DiamondDave for foolishly agreeing with you.

I guess if we want the kind of 'risk taking' that gave us a company like Microsoft and all the innovation and advancement that came with it,

we should RAISE the top tax rates.

Care to comment on the amounts of deductions, what was considered income, etc?? It was not as simple as a 70% tax rate on the upper earners and companies.... but nice try

Still does not justify unequal treatment based on income or any other basis, by our government, in a supposed free society

 

[DiamondDave]

So you do in fact support raising taxes on the poorer while lowering taxes on the richer, which is what would have to be done to get to 'equal %'.

1. Is that a mainstream Conservative view? Do you believe most on the Right support that?

2. Would you also support eliminating all exemptions, deductions, and credits for children, which probably more than anything create the unequal % 'problem' you're talking about.

I'm all for closing the loopholes for all. That includes the rich and the poor.

I really find it amazing that you can pay no Fed taxes yet you get to file a tax return and get a rebate simply because you have children. Some of those rebates total in the thousands. Nice little payout every year.

All payed for courtesy of those of us that do pay Fed taxes.

Yep. I'm for fairness all the way around

The child tax credit is the main reason so many pay NO federal income taxes.

I doubt that 1 in 10 here would be willing to give it up in the interests of fairness.

I don't get it, and compared to someone at the same wage level as I, but they have 2 or 3 kids?

All told, it means I pay approximately quadruple the income taxes they do.

I would... in a HEARTBEAT... and I have 2 kids.... for it is about equality in treatment, not on who gets what advantage over whom, because of who they vote in to fit their agenda

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Which specific rights of yours have been threatened by a foreign nation in the last 150 years?

Has a foreign country ever tried to come here and prevent you from speaking, or voting, or praticing your religion? Which of your rights have been threatened?

The US fights to stabilize the global market. That ensures that our businesses can continue to flourish

Threatened by nations?? Lest you forget we have been at war with other nations that have attacked our territories and soil in the past 150 years (and attacked our allies).... and lest we forget that it is no longer just nations that threaten our lives, our security, etc...

Our unquestioned military superiority has helped to ensure that safety for a number of years now.... and it should remain that way... not cutting back our military and our defenses to give entitlements to the fucking lazy

Attacked to remove which of your rights or freedoms?

Uhm.... life?